Who Goes To Hell?

[Saint Steven]

You can't chose to be a Christian, only God can who He gives His grace to.

Doesn't this infer that God predestines people to hell? Those he does not draw to himself.

 

[Saint Steven]

The fact of the matter is that the Eastern Fathers, somewhat generally, seem more sympathetic to the idea of an ultimate universal restoration; it's probably more accurate to say that the views of the fathers, both East and West, have been varied, multifaceted, and sometimes complex.

Add to the list, "contradictory". - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

the 2nd death is death, in the lake of fire the unsaved burn up, never to become alive again.
The opposite of life is death.

When the last enemy is defeated (death), what becomes of the dead?

 

[Saint Steven]

Anyone that denies Him or His work... well, they cannot ever do enough, on their own and they will forever be seen as the unrighteous person they are... So, they cannot enter heaven.

What percentage of humankind do you estimate will "make it" to heaven on this basis?

 

[Saint Steven]

No Christian goes to hell. Christs work is sufficient to cleans all unrighteousness..

Man cannot accept that. Man always needs it's pound of flesh.. Man cannot wrap their head around the fact that Christ thinks differently than we do..

Isn't the whole idea of "hell" that "pound of flesh" you refer to?
Does God require us to forgive our enemies?

 

[JacksBratt]

What percentage of humankind do you estimate will "make it" to heaven on this basis?

How on earth would my estimation of such a number have anything to do with anything?

Also, it is impossible to calculate..

Third, only God knows the hearts of a man (human)

Therefore, your question is pointless.

The only facts that are of any value is simply that achieving salvation is so simple and easy that a child can do it. It only takes a humbling of your heart. Anyone can achieve it and it matters not what you have done... ever..

Your question is both unanswerable and pointless.

 

[Zao is life]

Can listening to certain music take you to Hell? Can you be a believer in Christ, and still go to Hell? Title says all that needs to be said, ciao.

boxman144

ABOUT LISTENING TO CERTAIN TYPES OF MUSIC:

If you are a believer in Christ and experience His love for you, as well as the conviction of His Holy Spirit when you say or do things He does not approve of, as well as His prompting to do something for another which is in line with the command to love your neighbor as yourself,

then you will eventually not want to listen to music which is vulgar or contains vulgar lyrics. Some music appeals to the flesh, and you will eventually not even like it if you believe in and make yourself a disciple of Jesus.

"HELL":

The New Testament was originally written in Greek, and translated into many other languages. The word "hell" does not appear in the New Testament's original language. There are three words which appear:

1. Gehenna, which Jesus used as a metaphor for everlasting punishment.
2. Hades, which in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the Septuaginta) always referred to the abode of the dead, and was a translation of the Hebrew word sheol.
3. Tartarus - the bottomless pit - only mentioned once by Peter (2 Peter 2:4).

4. Jesus also makes reference in a parable to "Abraham's bosom" where quite obviously the departed souls of the dead went who had like-faith in the Word of God that Abraham had, and that Noah had before him, and that Seth and the sons of Seth had before Noah.

Jesus spoke of a chasm between those in Abraham's bosom and hades, but there is no clear indication in the New Testament of whether the abode of the dead (hades) was divided into different sections separated by chasms, or if there were different abodes of the dead.

LAKE OF FIRE

In His revelation to His servants given to His apostle John, Jesus gives John a vision of a Great White Throne and books being opened. At this point hades and death deliver up all the souls in them and whoever's name was not found in the Book of Life (through faith in Jesus) are cast into the lake of fire. Death and hades, too, are cast into the lake of fire and there is no more dying after that, no more death.

DEATH ALREADY DEFEATED BUT NOT YET DESTROYED

Death has already been defeated by Christ on behalf of anyone who believes in Him, but not yet destroyed in the lake of fire.. Those who believe in Him and make themselves His disciples will be resurrected from the dead and live forever from that point onward. Their names will be found in the book of Life through Christ's life in them. But those who reject Christ will be cast into the Lake of fire.

BACK TO YOUR QUESTION ON WHETHER YOU WILL GO TO HELL IF YOU LISTEN TO CERTAIN TYPES OF MUSIC:

Your life depends on your response to Christ. That is your starting point. This is why He said,

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." (Matthew 6:33).

So don't love music or any type of music more than Jesus = don't love music more than yourself.

 

[JacksBratt]

Isn't the whole idea of "hell" that "pound of flesh" you refer to?

No, God is not asking for His pound of flesh. Some very sinful people are going to heaven.. Some people who we would consider very "good" are going to hell..

It's all about faith in Christ and accepting Him. If you don't accept Him.. then why would you want to spend eternity around Him?

Also, if you don't accept Him... your sins are not covered, you are found to be unrighteous and the simple law of this universe is that unrighteousness cannot exist in the presence of God.

Accept Him and your unrighteousness is covered and you appear white as snow. You take on His righteousness and are quite accepted in the presence of God.

Does God require us to forgive our enemies?

Yes..

You do know that forgiveness is for the victim, not the offender..... right?

unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

Forgiving someone lifts the burden from you...

One of the best judges of a Christian is "do they forgive".

In the end.. Vengeance is the Lords...

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Doesn't this infer that God predestines people to hell? Those he does not draw to himself.

No. We all chose to sin, we all love to play God, we all deserve to go to hell. Only by God's mercy some go to heaven and some to hell. You can be born to a Christian family, go to church, study the bible and I don't know what but still go to hell, because unless God decides to cleanse your wicked heart you go to hell. No one has advantage over anyone else. How do I know this? Look at the pharisees who had the Messiah amongst them and didn't recognise Him.

So no, we are all headed to go to hell because we chose that by our wicked actions, only God can prevent that. Why God chooses who He wants....well because He is God and we are His creation and He is sovereign over us. All things lead to His glory. No one chose God, you can't decide that you want to be reborn, God decides that.

 

[JacksBratt]

Isn't the whole idea of "hell" that "pound of flesh" you refer to?
Does God require us to forgive our enemies?

OK... this is how simple it is...

Hell is not where you are "sent".

Hell is where you are all ready going.. due to the choices you made.

Heaven.. is the place you don't belong... don't deserve and you cannot earn or do anything to get there.

Only Christ could pay the price..

So... if you want to go to this place that you don't deserve... He has the right to pardon you due to the fact that He paid the price but didn't do the crime.

His time served can be passed to you...

IF you accept it..

If not..... carry on to your present destination...God doesn't change your flight plan... you do.

 

[Der Alte]

To the OP "Who goes to hell?"

Matthew 7:22-23
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesian 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. ​

 

[JacksBratt]

No. We all chose to sin, we all love to play God, we all deserve to go to hell. Only by God's mercy some go to heaven and some to hell. You can be born to a Christian family, go to church, study the bible and I don't know what but still go to hell, because unless God decides to cleanse your wicked heart you go to hell. No one has advantage over anyone else. How do I know this? Look at the pharisees who had the Messiah amongst them and didn't recognise Him.

So no, we are all headed to go to hell because we chose that by our wicked actions, only God can prevent that. Why God chooses who He wants....well because He is God and we are His creation and He is sovereign over us. All things lead to His glory. No one chose God, you can't decide that you want to be reborn, God decides that.

Great post.

 

[Saint Steven]

How on earth would my estimation of such a number have anything to do with anything?

Also, it is impossible to calculate..

Third, only God knows the hearts of a man (human)

Therefore, your question is pointless.

The only facts that are of any value is simply that achieving salvation is so simple and easy that a child can do it. It only takes a humbling of your heart. Anyone can achieve it and it matters not what you have done... ever..

Your question is both unanswerable and pointless.

Rubbish.
You are claiming that Jesus came to save us from God.

Are you not promoting the "narrow way" and the "few that find it"? (seems so)
That would mean that the vast majority (countless billions) are what you would term as "lost". Which seems completely on point.

And it is possible to calculate in rough figures. World population figures (7.5 billion) and world Christianity figures (2.4 billion) are readily available. Not even one third of the world population is professing Christianity. And we could probably agree that the 2.4 billions is generous. Including those who are Christian politically as well as nominal Christians that have no relationship with Christ. Add to these numbers all those who have lived and died since Christ and you have the countless billions I often refer to.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What percentage of humankind do you estimate will "make it" to heaven on this basis?

 

[Der Alte]

...
"HELL":
The New Testament was originally written in Greek, and translated into many other languages. The word "hell" does not appear in the New Testament's original language. There are three words which appear:
1. Gehenna, which Jesus used as a metaphor for everlasting punishment.
2. Hades, which in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the Septuaginta) always referred to the abode of the dead, and was a translation of the Hebrew word sheol.
3. Tartarus - the bottomless pit - only mentioned once by Peter (2 Peter 2:4).
4. Jesus also makes reference in a parable to "Abraham's bosom" where quite obviously the departed souls of the dead went who had like-faith in the Word of God that Abraham had, and that Noah had before him, and that Seth and the sons of Seth had before Noah.
Jesus spoke of a chasm between those in Abraham's bosom and hades, but there is no clear indication in the New Testament of whether the abode of the dead (hades) was divided into different sections separated by chasms, or if there were different abodes of the dead.
LAKE OF FIRE
In His revelation to His servants given to His apostle John, Jesus gives John a vision of a Great White Throne and books being opened. At this point hades and death deliver up all the souls in them and whoever's name was not found in the Book of Life (through faith in Jesus) are cast into the lake of fire. Death and hades, too, are cast into the lake of fire and there is no more dying after that, no more death....

…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, hades and gehenna in the NT.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were differing beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this verse would be about 700 BC +/-]​

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

When Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

 

[Zao is life]

…..According to three irrefutable Jewish sources; the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica and the Talmud, quoted below, among the Jews in Israel before and during the time of Jesus there was a belief in a place of everlasting torment of the wicked and they called it both sheol and gehinnom, hades and gehenna in the NT.
…..There were different groups within Judaism; Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes etc. and there were different beliefs about resurrection, hell etc. That there were differing beliefs does not rebut, refute, change or disprove anything in this post.

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch … in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). … the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a);[“Soon” in this verse would be about 700 BC +/-]​

[Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT supposed bias of Christian translators. DA]

(I)n general …sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell(B.M. 83b).
But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).[/i]
… heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, [שאול/Sheol] all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch [x. 6, xci. 9, etal] also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al). "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according toIsa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b).
Link: Jewish Encyclopedia Online
Note, scripture references are highlighted in blue.
= = = = = = = = = =
Encyclopedia Judaica:
Gehinnom (Heb. גֵּי בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּי בְנֵי הִנֹּם, גֵּיא בֶן־הִנֹּם, גֵּיא הִנֹּם; Gr. Γέεννα; "Valley of Ben-Hinnom, Valley of [the Son (s) of] Hinnom," Gehenna), a valley south of Jerusalem on one of the borders between the territories of Judah and Benjamin, between the Valley of *Rephaim and *En-Rogel (Josh. 15:8; 18:16). It is identified with Wadi er-Rababi.
…..During the time of the Monarchy, Gehinnom, at a place called Topheth, was the site of a cult which involved the burning of children (II Kings 23:10; Jer. 7:31; 32:35 et al.; ). Jeremiah repeatedly condemned this cult and predicted that on its account Topheth and the Valley of the Son of Hinnom would be called the Valley of the "Slaughter" (Jer. 19:5–6).
In Judaism the name Gehinnom is generally used as an appellation of the place of torment reserved for the wicked after death. The New Testament used the Greek form Gehenna in the same sense.
Gehinnom
= = = = = = = = = =
Talmud -Tractate Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1.
The school of Hillel says: . . . but as for Minim, [followers of Jesus] informers and disbelievers, who deny the Torah, or Resurrection, or separate themselves from the congregation, or who inspire their fellowmen with dread of them, or who sin and cause others to sin, as did Jeroboam the son of Nebat and his followers, they all descend to Gehenna, and are judged there from generation to generation, as it is said [Isa. lxvi. 24]: "And they shall go forth and look upon the carcases of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched." Even when Gehenna will be destroyed, they will not be consumed, as it is written[Psalms, xlix. 15]: "And their forms wasteth away in the nether world," which the sages comment upon to mean that their forms shall endure even when the grave is no more. Concerning them Hannah says [I Sam. ii. 10]: "The adversaries of the Lord shall be broken to pieces."
Link: Tract Rosh Hashana: Chapter I.​

When Jesus taught e.g.,

• “Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:” Matthew 25:41
• "these shall go away into eternal punishment, Matthew 25:46"
• "the fire of hell where the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die, 3X Mark 9:43-48"
• "cast into a fiery furnace where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth,” Matthew 13:42, Matthew 13:50
• “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” Matthew 18:6
• “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23
• “woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born. ” Matthew 26:24
• “But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city.” Luke 10:12​

…..These teachings tacitly reaffirmed and sanctioned a then existing significant Jewish view of eternal hell, outlined above. In Matt. 18:6, 26:24 and Luk 10:12, see above, Jesus teaches that there is a punishment worse than death or nonexistence.
…..A punishment worse than death without mercy is also mentioned in Hebrews 10:28-31.

Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

…..Jesus is quoted as using the word death 17 times in the gospels, if He wanted to say eternal death in Matt 25:46, that is what He would have said but He didn’t, He said “eternal punishment.” The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, they knew that everybody died; rich, poor, young, old, good, bad, men, women, children, infants and knew that often it had nothing to do with punishment and was permanent. When Jesus taught “eternal punishment” they would not have understood it as merely death, it would have meant something worse to them.
…..Concerning “punishment” one early church father wrote,

“‘Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.” Justin Martyr [A.D. 110-165.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapter 4​

…..Jesus undoubtedly knew what the Jews, believed about hell. If the Jews were wrong, why didn’t Jesus tell them there was no hell, no eternal punishment etc? Why would Jesus teach “eternal punishment,” etc. to Jews who believed, "The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity," which would only encourage and reinforce their beliefs?

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with in my post. The word "hell" does not appear in the New Testament in the Greek texts - every time we read the word "hell" in the New Testament, it's a translation of one of those three words, just as my post states.

"The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity,"

It's very similar to what Jesus says about the Great White Throne Judgment and those whose names are not written in the book of life being cast into the lake of fire.

It's also very similar to this:

"And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." (Rev 14:9-11).

Jewish Encyclopedia, Gehenna
The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch. The valley was deemed to be accursed.

Yes, and I never repeated the above fact in my post because you had already mentioned it in your post.

At the time of Jesus that valley was where all the city's rubbish was thrown, and a fire burned there continually, so it's not surprising Jesus used gehenna as a metaphor for eternal punishment - but Jesus and the New Testament also used hades in reference to the abode of the dead, and when He died, He went and preached to souls which were in prison in hades:

"seeing this beforehand, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor would His flesh see corruption," (Acts 2:31)

"For Christ also once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, indeed being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit; in which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, to disobeying ones, when once the long-suffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared (in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water); (1 Peter 3:18-20).

The New Testament tells us that when He died, Jesus descended into hades and went and preached to the souls imprisoned there. Then He rose again from the dead on the third day.

There is a difference between death & hades on one hand, and eternal torment (gehenna) on the other. If it were not the case, the New Testament would not use different words "for the same thing".

 

[JacksBratt]

Rubbish.
You are claiming that Jesus came to save us from God.

Rubbish...

Jesus came to save us from ourselves...

God is bound by the simple laws of the universe.. He has no choice but to follow them as a righteous God.

It's simple.. No unrighteousness can exist in God's presence..... If you are not seen as righteous.. as we all are before being covered by the blood... we simply cannot be there.

Are you not promoting the "narrow way" and the "few that find it"? (seems so)
That would mean that the vast majority (countless billions) are what you would term as "lost". Which seems completely on point.

Yep.... the narrow way is not as traveled as the broad way...

Your point?

And it is possible to calculate in rough figures. World population figures (7.5 billion) and world Christianity figures (2.4 billion) are readily available. Not even one third of the world population is professing Christianity. And we could probably agree that the 2.4 billions is generous. Including those who are Christian politically as well as nominal Christians that have no relationship with Christ. Add to these numbers all those who have lived and died since Christ and you have the countless billions I often refer to.

Nope... If you think so.... then..you calculate it..

Don't ask someone else.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What percentage of humankind do you estimate will "make it" to heaven on this basis?

Then, Saint Steven... you calculate it... I don't have the ability or the desire to do such a thing..

It's arrogant to think that you could.

 

[JacksBratt]

Rubbish.
You are claiming that Jesus came to save us from God.

Are you not promoting the "narrow way" and the "few that find it"? (seems so)
That would mean that the vast majority (countless billions) are what you would term as "lost". Which seems completely on point.

And it is possible to calculate in rough figures. World population figures (7.5 billion) and world Christianity figures (2.4 billion) are readily available. Not even one third of the world population is professing Christianity. And we could probably agree that the 2.4 billions is generous. Including those who are Christian politically as well as nominal Christians that have no relationship with Christ. Add to these numbers all those who have lived and died since Christ and you have the countless billions I often refer to.

Saint Steven said: ↑
What percentage of humankind do you estimate will "make it" to heaven on this basis?

I get it...

You think that if God is a loving God.. how could He punish all these poor souls for eternity.....

I understand that you cannot get over that.

I cannot understand how people don't get it... How they don't see that salvation is so simple and easy and free...

It would be so nice if all my loved ones and friends and close acquaintances.... could be with us in paradise...

That's a nice "feel good" and "tickle the ears" message... So sweet and all is a nice happy ending..

But, that's not what the Bible teaches. It's not a movie written by Disney...

 

[Saint Steven]

God is bound by the simple laws of the universe..

Seriously? Wow.

 

[Saint Steven]

No unrighteousness can exist in God's presence.....

Is that why Satan is allowed to speak to God at his throne. (see the book of Job)
And what about the Great White Throne judgment? Any sinners present?

 

[JacksBratt]

Is that why Satan is allowed to speak to God at his throne. (see the book of Job)
And what about the Great White Throne judgment? Any sinners present?

It's about eternity.....

Here:

Can God Be in the Presence of Sin? – #3 Post of 2010

The Bible teaches that God is opposed to sin and evil, that he is holy and righteous. We know that eventually he will quarantine evil from good when he creates the New Heaven and Earth (Rev. 21 ). At that time, God will physically separate those who love him from those who don’t. Those who love him will no longer be in the presence of sin from that point forward.


Until then, God tolerates the presence of sin in order to accomplish his purposes with mankind. Thank goodness, because if God truly could not be in the presence of sin, none of us would be here!