Who Do You Say He Is?

[Phoenix]

Yes Louis, Thanks. The other one i was looking for was in Acts 5:1-10 but i'll only paste 3-4


But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the land?                       
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it wass sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.


So i guess where i'm going with this is that in the Jesus/God debates the whole Father/Son thing is quite confusing. Whereas in the verses above and others, in my opinion, it can be demonstrated that the Holy Spirit is God. There's a great theological note in my study Bible on the Holy Spirit. I dont have it with me but we see that the Holy Spirit leads, teaches, speaks, guides amongst other things. It would seem to me that either you have to say that the Holy Spirit is a separate person or the Holy Spirit is God Himself.

John 4:24

God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in
spirit and in truth.

I think this is overlooked when discussing/debating the Trinity.

 

[OldShepherd]

Originally posted by drmmjr
The Holy Spirit is the power of God.

Must disagree with you. Been doing some study in that area, don't have my notes right now but here's a bit from memory.

The Holy Spirit does all these  personal activites, autonomously and independently,

Speaks, comforts, teaches, sends and is sent, heals, has a mind, can be lied to, can be quenched, can be blasphemed exclusive from Jesus, helps, examines hearts and consciences, permits and prohibits actions, and ordains to office. And I know there are afew more.

There is also the witness of the early church, Irenaeus and Justin Martyr, for example.

 

[MizDoulos]

Since there is a claim made in the first post that Jesus Christ is not God, this thread is being moved to this forum.

 

[sojeru]

Hi, you fail to realize the meaning of EMMANU'EL
you said:
The Prophet Isaiah foretold a virgin would conceive and bear a son, and would call his name Immanuel, which means "God with us." Again, how did God come to be with us? He came to be with us through His only begotten son Jesus the Christ, a man anointed by God the Father as we just read. Please take notice of those key words "in the form of". The words form and image are interchangeable.
--------------------------------------------
Emmanu'el means "Gd is in COMMON with us men"
how can Gd be in COMMON with men if he has not been in COMMON with men, sitting in what is called heaven and using flesh(earth) as a footstool?

You said:
Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
---------------------------------------------------------
I bring up
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

In the manner in which you expain of "image" and "form of" can be convinsing, however not to the learned.
He was also in the "image/form of" of man...in which in your previous thread NOW makes messiah not a man either, however it clearly states that Messiah was made of the earth/flesh.
So how can He be called EMMANU'EL if he is not EL(Gd)?
because it clearly says
--------------------------------
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
-------------------------------
THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME, this wont be HIS name but the people call him this.
and the "Gd with us situation" I'll go in more of a depth if you wish explaining how it would actually be more rendered as "Gd is in common with us men"

I will post more to your first post when i have time. I too have had my questions about messiah in this aspect me being an orthodox jew, a chassid attending a synagouge of the chabbad

 

[Martin]

John 10:31-33
The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
NASU

The Jews wanted to stone Him because they clearly understood that Jesus was claiming to be God.....

Who do I say Jesus is? He is the Christ, the Son of God - God the Son.

 

[rnmomof7]

18th July 2002 at 11:23 PM CHRISTgospel said this in Post #1

WHO DO YOU SAY HE IS?

As recorded in the synoptic gospels, Jesus asked his disciples, "whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" Their reply varied and in turn Jesus asked them directly, "But whom say ye that I am?" Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Blessed are thou, Simon Bar-Jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 16:13-17)

Please note carefully who Peter said Jesus was. First Peter said Jesus is the Christ. What does "Christ" mean? Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible #5547 shows that Christ means "anointed, i.e. the Messiah." Let us look at what Luke tells us in the book of Acts, chapter 10, verse 38. (Acts 10:38)

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.


When reading this verse do you clearly see that Jesus is a separate being from God? This writer certainly sees the separation. Please note that God, the one and only true God, Jesus' Father and our Father if we are called to be His children, was with Jesus. Jesus is NOT God. God did not come AS Jesus. God dwells IN Jesus, Jesus was in the form of God.

The Prophet Isaiah foretold a virgin would conceive and bear a son, and would call his name Immanuel, which means "God with us." Again, how did God come to be with us? He came to be with us through His only begotten son Jesus the Christ, a man anointed by God the Father as we just read. Please take notice of those key words "in the form of". The words form and image are interchangeable.


Phil 2:6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,


Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.


Pay close attention to what Peter tells the multitude on the day of Pentecost. "Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. (Acts 2:22)

Again, we are talking about two different beings here. Jesus is one person. And God is another being. They are one only in spirit (mind and purpose). If you were taught as a child, as this writer was taught, that Jesus was God in the flesh, that God came down in human form, you have been taught to believe another Jesus. For the Bible clearly tells us that Jesus was a man anointed by God. And that God is NOT A MAN.

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

What does this verse say to you?

2 John 1:7 Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

To this writer it states that Jesus, is Jesus in the flesh. It does not say "God as coming in the flesh" nor does it say "The Most High God as coming in the flesh" or "The Father coming in the flesh." It says many deceivers, who do not acknowledge JESUS CHRIST AS COMING IN THE FLESH, have gone out into the world. Any such person [that does NOT acknowledge and accept this fact] is the deceiver and the antichrist. Pretty strong words, yes?

So who is this Jesus that God anointed? Did the prophets speak about this man that God would use as His agent to speak to His people?

Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his [Jesus] mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. [19]And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

This is speaking of the coming kingdom of God/heaven - the millennium reign - when Christ returns [The message of the Kingdom has to do with the land promised to Abraham - promises not yet fulfilled. It concerns the reestablishment of the throne of David and the permanent restoration and expansion of the fortunes of the nation of Israel.] 3 [In order for restoration to take place, in order for something to be restored it must have been in existence. For example, if God decided to take his people to heaven that would not be restitution. Since man never had a home in heaven, he could not have lost it, and Jesus could not restore it. Yet Scripture clearly teaches restitution.] (Acts 3:19-21)

[6] In his days (when Christ rules on earth) Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely(this certainly is not the case at this present time in history - Christians are losing their lives for their testimony so we can not be living in the millennium as some believe we are): and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Hebrews 1:1-3 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being [form, image], sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

In reply to the question Jesus directly asked his disciples, Peter, as we have read, stated that Jesus is the Christ. Peter also said that Jesus is the Son of the living God. Notice that Peter did not say Jesus was God as so many church goers believe to be the truth. No where in the Bible does it state "God the Son" nor do you find anyone claiming Jesus is God.

This paper ends, as it began, with the question, Who Do You Say He is? Do away with man's doctrine that has you believing in another gospel - another Jesus, and believe the words of the Christ: Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

by Sondra Treadway

When reading this verse do you clearly see that Jesus is a separate being from God? This writer certainly sees the separation. Please note that God, the one and only true God, Jesus' Father and our Father if we are called to be His children, was with Jesus. Jesus is NOT God. God did not come AS Jesus. God dwells IN Jesus, Jesus was in the form of God

Sondra I am not clear on your meaning. Are you saying that Jesus was not God in the flesh? That He was seperate from the Father?

Jhn 1:1__ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 10:30__ I and [my] Father are one.


though he was in the form of God,
_did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited,
but emptied himself,taking the form of a slave,
_being born in human likeness. And being found in human form,
_he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death—
_even death on a cross.

 

[rnmomof7]

15th August 2002 at 03:52 PM drmmjr said this in Post #16

The Holy Spirit is the power of God.

Why is the Holy spirt refered to as He then?

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Jhn 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
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