Who did Moses chat with?

[YosemiteSam]

The Ten Commandments were "binding" at Creation

Ps 110:7-8 "All His commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, and are DONE in truth and uprightness."" Jesus said, "that I came not to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fullfill." WE MUST FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE TODAY AND FULFILL THE LAW. We also must believe the prophets...Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man...read the end of it..."they have Moses and the prophets"...

The Ten Commandments constitute the basic spiritual law which regulates man's life, his interactions socially. Paul said, it was "holy, just and good." Rom 7:12 and 14 These laws existed from the beginning.. When speaking of divorce, Jesus said that "from the beginning it was not so." Matt 19:8 It was a sin AT THE BEGINNING of creation to commit adultery. By Moses time the people strayed far from the truth. God had to reveal through Moses what His commandments, statutes and laws state. God was just revealing to the Israelites through Moses His commandments...

Notice Ex 16:8 God said, "How long do you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws?" ISRAEL COULD NOT REFUSE WHAT DID NOT EXIST! Moses said that when the people make dispute he makes them know the statutes of God and His Laws. THIS IS BEFORE SINAI!!!

So the statutes and laws existed before the old covenant. As they existed before the old covenant then they certainly could not be abolished when that covenant ceased. The old covenant could or would not destroy what it did not bring into force. The covenant was merely and "agreement" between two parties.

EXAMPLE Gal 3:17 "This is what I mean, the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void." See the promise was already in existence...the covenant could not void the promise...the promise existed first. Just as the law existed first... A covenant can not and will not ever void a "party"

When a man and a woman are married they are in a covenant...Now the covenant can be broken...the covenant can even end...but the covenant cannot void the man or the woman...it can only void the marriage or the agreement between the man and the woman. The man and the woman still exist even though the covenant is ended.

END OF STORY

 

[Stryder06]

So what does one have to do to be ready for Jesus' return?

If you're saved - IOW possess salvation and have eternal life, aren't you ready for Jesus' return?

Not everyone who thinks they'll be saved, will be saved. The very nature of being deceived is to not know that you're deceived. Jesus said that we are to watch. We are to be sobber minded. The Devil is working to trick people out of their salvation so to speak.

Let's take a few things for example like:
The Mark of the Beast
The Secret Rapture
The Millineal Reign

No matter what your stance is on those issues, only one view can be right. If you have the wrong understanding of any of those events, and you're not seeking God's guidance, you run the risk of being deceived by the advesary.

 

[Frogster]

The Ten Commandments were "binding" at Creation

Ps 110:7-8 "All His commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, and are DONE in truth and uprightness."" Jesus said, "that I came not to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fullfill." WE MUST FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE TODAY AND FULFILL THE LAW. We also must believe the prophets...Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man...read the end of it..."they have Moses and the prophets"...

The Ten Commandments constitute the basic spiritual law which regulates man's life, his interactions socially. Paul said, it was "holy, just and good." Rom 7:12 and 14 These laws existed from the beginning.. When speaking of divorce, Jesus said that "from the beginning it was not so." Matt 19:8 It was a sin AT THE BEGINNING of creation to commit adultery. By Moses time the people strayed far from the truth. God had to reveal through Moses what His commandments, statutes and laws state. God was just revealing to the Israelites through Moses His commandments...

Notice Ex 16:8 God said, "How long do you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws?" ISRAEL COULD NOT REFUSE WHAT DID NOT EXIST! Moses said that when the people make dispute he makes them know the statutes of God and His Laws. THIS IS BEFORE SINAI!!!

So the statutes and laws existed before the old covenant. As they existed before the old covenant then they certainly could not be abolished when that covenant ceased. The old covenant could or would not destroy what it did not bring into force. The covenant was merely and "agreement" between two parties.

EXAMPLE Gal 3:17 "This is what I mean, the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void." See the promise was already in existence...the covenant could not void the promise...the promise existed first. Just as the law existed first... A covenant can not and will not ever void a "party"

When a man and a woman are married they are in a covenant...Now the covenant can be broken...the covenant can even end...but the covenant cannot void the man or the woman...it can only void the marriage or the agreement between the man and the woman. The man and the woman still exist even though the covenant is ended.

END OF STORY

John, they did not have 10 the at creation..

#1

3;17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.


it says, there was a time when there was no law, AND sin was in the world, before the law, showing that the sin from Adam was not mosaic.

5;13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

 

[from scratch]

The Ten Commandments were "binding" at Creation

Ps 110:7-8 "All His commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever, and are DONE in truth and uprightness."" Jesus said, "that I came not to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fullfill." WE MUST FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE TODAY AND FULFILL THE LAW. We also must believe the prophets...Read the parable of Lazarus and the rich man...read the end of it..."they have Moses and the prophets"...

The Ten Commandments constitute the basic spiritual law which regulates man's life, his interactions socially. Paul said, it was "holy, just and good." Rom 7:12 and 14 These laws existed from the beginning.. When speaking of divorce, Jesus said that "from the beginning it was not so." Matt 19:8 It was a sin AT THE BEGINNING of creation to commit adultery. By Moses time the people strayed far from the truth. God had to reveal through Moses what His commandments, statutes and laws state. God was just revealing to the Israelites through Moses His commandments...

Notice Ex 16:8 God said, "How long do you refuse to keep my commandments and my laws?" ISRAEL COULD NOT REFUSE WHAT DID NOT EXIST! Moses said that when the people make dispute he makes them know the statutes of God and His Laws. THIS IS BEFORE SINAI!!!

So the statutes and laws existed before the old covenant. As they existed before the old covenant then they certainly could not be abolished when that covenant ceased. The old covenant could or would not destroy what it did not bring into force. The covenant was merely and "agreement" between two parties.

EXAMPLE Gal 3:17 "This is what I mean, the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void." See the promise was already in existence...the covenant could not void the promise...the promise existed first. Just as the law existed first... A covenant can not and will not ever void a "party"

When a man and a woman are married they are in a covenant...Now the covenant can be broken...the covenant can even end...but the covenant cannot void the man or the woman...it can only void the marriage or the agreement between the man and the woman. The man and the woman still exist even though the covenant is ended.

END OF STORY

Is this an emotional out burst? or just a sloppy post?

Indeed Ps 111:7-8 do say what you quoted.

Indeed Jesus did say He came to fulfil and not to destroy in Mat 5:17. And Luke 24:44 says He did exactly that. Here's the verse - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.

In Mat 5:17 the word pleroo means to complete. You can certianly force the definition that says to make full if you like. There simply is more than one definition to pleroo. Luke 24:44 uses the same exact word indicating that Jesus did just exactly that. Thus your interpretation of 5:18 also fails the test.

You nor anybody else follow the example that Jesus set. To keep you from thinking I'm condeming you I'll tame it down some this time. Have you walked on water? Have you said to the wind to be stil and it obeyed you immediately? Have you spoken and healed anybody? Have you fasted for 40 days? Are you married of have you been? Do you have a dozen close followers called students (disciples)?

The 10 Cs only regulate the life of an Israelite to whom they were exclusively given - Deut 5:3. They didn't exist from the begining to your dismay. One has to ignore or add to the plain statements found in Romans 5:13 and Gal 3:17, 19.

While I see and understand your point on covenants, they can be replaced as evidenced by Jer 31:31-34. The covenant made at Mt Sinai in Horeb has been replaced just as Jeremiah said and Jesus testified to in 3 Gospels.

Jesus isn't talking about the law when mentioning from the beginning.

What were the commandments and laws and laws they disobeyed? I only see one so the question becomes are the words commandments and laws plural in Hebrew? I seriously don't think so. Law as used here means direction or instruction. Commandment means required.

The consistant problem for the pro law camp is requireing the word commandments to exclusively mean the 10 Cs which isn't the case regardless what your church claims.

Gal 3:19 doesn't say something that existed came or was added after it already existed. Your position requires this verse to be in error. So show how it is in error or mistranslated. Then you also must deal with Rom 5:13 as well and in the same manner.

 

[from scratch]

Not everyone who thinks they'll be saved, will be saved. The very nature of being deceived is to not know that you're deceived. Jesus said that we are to watch. We are to be sobber minded. The Devil is working to trick people out of their salvation so to speak.

Let's take a few things for example like:
The Mark of the Beast
The Secret Rapture
The Millineal Reign

No matter what your stance is on those issues, only one view can be right. If you have the wrong understanding of any of those events, and you're not seeking God's guidance, you run the risk of being deceived by the advesary.

Certianly not everyone who claims to be a Christian is saved. I think I have a slight problem with your statement of people thinking they're saved when they're not. I do understand and agree from a purely religious POV though. That however isn't what I offer or talk about.

I certianly agree that satan is doing his dead level best to deceive people out of their salvation. Have you been deceived?

OK let's take your churches view of the mark of the beast. They have always taught that anyone who doesn't worship on the sabbath (worshipping on Sunday) has taken the mark of the beast. I think your church uses the phrase Sunday worship. Christians don't worship Sunday! Now be honest with me here Stryder. BTW when I say your church I'm not limiting that to your local assembly, I'm speaking of the whole denomination. We have worked very hard to eliminate this false accusation form CF and seemed to have succeded.

So which covenant has jusridiction? It won't work to say the 10 Cs aren't part of or the covenant with Israel - Deut 5.

 

[from scratch]

The ark of the covenant is that which holds the law of God. To see the ark is to see the law because they go hand in hand together.



Please. When I post scripture I'm told that I'm "proof-texting" If I don't post scripture it's usually because I'm simply explaining my understanding of the scripture that is on the table already. I don't do the "my verse trumps your verse" thing anymore. If all scripture is given by inspiriation, than no one scripture trumps or explains away another. They all work in harmony together.


What are you asking here? I already told you that the ark contains the testament, which is the law of God. That's why it's called the ark of the testament. Shouldn't the rules of english make that self explanatory?


You recall incorrectly. If you took the time to study the sanctuary, as I had suggested you would have seen that.

I wondering if you have considered why some here say you use verses out of context?

 

[Frogster]

Is this an emotional out burst? or just a sloppy post?

Indeed Ps 111:7-8 do say what you quoted.

Indeed Jesus did say He came to fulfil and not to destroy in Mat 5:17. And Luke 24:44 says He did exactly that. Here's the verse - And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning Me.

In Mat 5:17 the word pleroo means to complete. You can certianly force the definition that says to make full if you like. There simply is more than one definition to pleroo. Luke 24:44 uses the same exact word indicating that Jesus did just exactly that. Thus your interpretation of 5:18 also fails the test.

You nor anybody else follow the example that Jesus set. To keep you from thinking I'm condeming you I'll tame it down some this time. Have you walked on water? Have you said to the wind to be stil and it obeyed you immediately? Have you spoken and healed anybody? Have you fasted for 40 days? Are you married of have you been? Do you have a dozen close followers called students (disciples)?

The 10 Cs only regulate the life of an Israelite to whom they were exclusively given - Deut 5:3. They didn't exist from the begining to your dismay. One has to ignore or add to the plain statements found in Romans 5:13 and Gal 3:17, 19.

While I see and understand your point on covenants, they can be replaced as evidenced by Jer 31:31-34. The covenant made at Mt Sinai in Horeb has been replaced just as Jeremiah said and Jesus testified to in 3 Gospels.

Jesus isn't talking about the law when mentioning from the beginning.

What were the commandments and laws and laws they disobeyed? I only see one so the question becomes are the words commandments and laws plural in Hebrew? I seriously don't think so. Law as used here means direction or instruction. Commandment means required.

The consistant problem for the pro law camp is requireing the word commandments to exclusively mean the 10 Cs which isn't the case regardless what your church claims.

Gal 3:19 doesn't say something that existed came or was added after it already existed. Your position requires this verse to be in error. So show how it is in error or mistranslated. Then you also must deal with Rom 5:13 as well and in the same manner.

lol at the red part!

 

[Stryder06]

Certianly not everyone who claims to be a Christian is saved. I think I have a slight problem with your statement of people thinking they're saved when they're not.

I don't see how you can have a problem with that when you just said that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is saved.

Have you been deceived?

Nope. I'm good.

OK let's take your churches view of the mark of the beast. They have always taught that anyone who doesn't worship on the sabbath (worshipping on Sunday) has taken the mark of the beast. I think your church uses the phrase Sunday worship. Christians don't worship Sunday! Now be honest with me here Stryder. BTW when I say your church I'm not limiting that to your local assembly, I'm speaking of the whole denomination. We have worked very hard to eliminate this false accusation form CF and seemed to have succeded.

I'm glad you feel like you've succeeded in eliminating this false accusation, since it is indeed false. Our church does not teach that those who worship on Sunday have received the mark of the beast. That has been explained on multiple occassions. The fact that you are still saying that only goes to prove that you're either (A) Willingly holding on to a false idea of about a doctrine that we teach, or (B) Just not paying attention when something is explained to you.

And no one is saying you worship sunday, at least they shouldn't be. We call worship on sabbath "Sabbath worship". It doesn't mean we worship the sabbath, it means we worship on sabbath. Thus "Sunday worship" is a term to state that you worship on Sunday. Again, this too has been explained. It's either A or B again.

So which covenant has jusridiction? It won't work to say the 10 Cs aren't part of or the covenant with Israel - Deut 5.

I'm not talking covenants with you since (A) you still can't explain to me why John saw the ark of the covenant in Heaven, and (B) it has absolutely nothing to do with my statement. Interestingly enough though, understanding prophecy explains the covenants for you.

 

[Stryder06]

I wondering if you have considered why some here say you use verses out of context?

Because it's easier to do that than to reconsider what they've been taught for all of their lives.

 

[from scratch]

I don't see how you can have a problem with that when you just said that not everyone who claims to be a Christian is saved.


Nope. I'm good.


I'm glad you feel like you've succeeded in eliminating this false accusation, since it is indeed false. Our church does not teach that those who worship on Sunday have received the mark of the beast. That has been explained on multiple occassions. The fact that you are still saying that only goes to prove that you're either (A) Willingly holding on to a false idea of about a doctrine that we teach, or (B) Just not paying attention when something is explained to you.

And no one is saying you worship sunday, at least they shouldn't be. We call worship on sabbath "Sabbath worship". It doesn't mean we worship the sabbath, it means we worship on sabbath. Thus "Sunday worship" is a term to state that you worship on Sunday. Again, this too has been explained. It's either A or B again.



I'm not talking covenants with you since (A) you still can't explain to me why John saw the ark of the covenant in Heaven, and (B) it has absolutely nothing to do with my statement. Interestingly enough though, understanding prophecy explains the covenants for you.

Ah but you said thinks the're saved. I know for a fact I'm saved and have passed the judgment. You? Not if you subscribe to your FBs as published by your church. For your information I have a 900 plus post thread on the subject in the Progressive SDA section.

What does John 5:24 say? How about Romans 8:1-4? Especially verse 1.

I have a phote in front of me that says otherwise and when I called the number on the sign I received material printed by your church publishers from an SDA church. Sorry I no longer have the envelope it came in. Sure wih that was one of the useless thing I had kept. There were 3 such similar signs on the interstate. If I remember correctly they were all on I-75.

Sunday worship is a far cry from worship on Sunday in my English. So you can say it isn't if you want. Just compare phrases as I have them in bold blue for you. The first clearly say worship Sunday and no on Sunday.

No prophecy doesn't explain covenants. Sorry.

 

[from scratch]

Because it's easier to do that than to reconsider what they've been taught for all of their lives.

So doesn't your reasoning also work against you? I think there is anther reason, but I do like the way you put the ownus on someone else. Avoid all responsibility at any cost.

 

[David64]

I offered you the opportunity to explain John 15:10 and you didn't take it.

How can My commandments be the same as My Father's commandments?

I have a better question, how can they not be the same?

 

[Frogster]

I have a better question, how they not be the same?

deut5..would u be interested in having me start a Hebrews thread, and we can go toe to toe on it?

Just u and me.

BUT,, ya gotta keep it SCRIPTURAL!

 

[YosemiteSam]

Is this an emotional out burst? or just a sloppy post?



Jesus isn't talking about the law when mentioning from the beginning.

LOL ROTFLMBO....Really? Too funny...

 

[YosemiteSam]

John, they did not have 10 the at creation..

#1

3;17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.


it says, there was a time when there was no law, AND sin was in the world, before the law, showing that the sin from Adam was not mosaic.

5;13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

Don't know Ask John...thats who you are pointing the questions too...John should be back tomorrow...

 

[Frogster]

Don't know Ask John...thats who you are pointing the questions too...John should be back tomorrow...

 

[YosemiteSam]

I'm intersted in understanding Who Moses talked with?

Is there any Scriptural evidence for one or the other in the trinity doctrine?

Or is John saying that The Father and Jesus are the same Individual for lack of a better expression?

I'm looking at and for Scriptural evidence. You can provide anything elseyou like but only with support meaning you can use things outside the Bible. I just want to know what you base your idea on.

Jesus, the Son of Man cannot be the Father and visa versa...To separate entities...but of the same family...Jesus prayed to the Father...If Jesus was the Father then He couldn't pray to himself could he?...Or he couldn't say "give me back that which I had before the foundation of the world." He died...the sacrificial Lamb...the Father raised him back up...How hard is that? If He died he couldn't resurrect himself could he? DUH!

 

[Frogster]

Jesus, the Son of Man cannot be the Father and visa versa...To separate entities...but of the same family...Jesus prayed to the Father...If Jesus was the Father then He could pray to himself could he?...Or he couldn't say "give me back that which I had before the foundation of the world." He died...the sacrificial Lamb...the Father raised him back up...How hard is that? If He died he could resurrect himself could he? DUH!

sooooo..how do u account for the fact, that sin was in the world, before the law was given, proving that the transgression of Adam was not from Mosaic law?

5;13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

 

[YosemiteSam]

sooooo..how do u account for the fact, that sin was in the world, before the law was given, proving that the transgression of Adam was not from Mosaic law?

5;13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

I just account it as you don't understand what the verse is saying...you don't understand the context of what Paul is speaking about...and if you did you wouldn't always talk about the same ol verse...We've beaten this thing a thousand times over the head and you still don't get it...
Y

 

[YosemiteSam]

Certianly not everyone who claims to be a Christian is saved. I think I have a slight problem with your statement of people thinking they're saved when they're not. I do understand and agree from a purely religious POV though. That however isn't what I offer or talk about.

I certianly agree that satan is doing his dead level best to deceive people out of their salvation. Have you been deceived?

OK let's take your churches view of the mark of the beast. They have always taught that anyone who doesn't worship on the sabbath (worshipping on Sunday) has taken the mark of the beast. I think your church uses the phrase Sunday worship. Christians don't worship Sunday! Now be honest with me here Stryder. BTW when I say your church I'm not limiting that to your local assembly, I'm speaking of the whole denomination. We have worked very hard to eliminate this false accusation form CF and seemed to have succeded.

So which covenant has jusridiction? It won't work to say the 10 Cs aren't part of or the covenant with Israel - Deut 5.

I have never heard as Sunday is the mark of the beast...Where do you come from on that...The mark is a mark that keeps one from buying and selling...that couldn't be Sunday or any other day...

By the way Satan has already done his bidding even though he is still very active...Rev 12:9 "For Satan has deceived the whole world." I think this verse is what we call past tense...