Who did Moses chat with?

[from scratch]

I'll admit that I'm still not sure what Luke 16:16 means. I think it's interesting though that in verse 17 Christ says that heaven and earth will pass away before something from the law changes. So either Christ is confused, or He's not saying what you think He is.

So what is LK 24:44 talking about then? I do read all things which Jesus made very clear exactly what they were.

 

[from scratch]

God nor Christ are the authors of confusion [except perhaps to the Jews today?]

1 Corinthians 14:33 for not is of tulmuts/confusion/akatastasiaV <181> the God, but of peace
as in all the Outcalleds of the Saints.

Luke 21:9 Whenever yet ye should be hearing battles and tumults/akatastasiaV <181> no may be being dismayed, for is binding these to be becoming
but not immediately the end

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

 

[from scratch]

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament...

Rev 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God (So which commandments are these?), and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God (Which ones are these?) and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened (Wonder why it's called the temple of the tabrenacle of the testimony? Could that be another reference to the Ark of the Covenant? HMMMMMMM?)

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


What's sad is how easily all of these verses will be ignored. With that, I'm finished here.

Why those commandmentsare certianly not the current commandments of the NC nor the one Given in I John 3:23, are they?

Here again the use of commandments is meant by you to be only the 10 Cs. It is a problem in understanding the truth.

 

[JohnRabbit]

So you wish to deny Scripture. OK. Just don't expect me to do the same.

Now where is it that those rules are recommanded in the NC/NT? What does LK 16:16 say? And that isn't Paul BTW.

Is Jesus lying or is He mis quoted? We have Jesus saying a new (kainos) commandment.

james 2:11, doesn't get any clearer that that!

"...but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law."

and before you go into your hissy, it's not me that's saying that, but the first part of the verse,

"For He who said,..."

as for lk 16:16, put that together with eph 2:19-20, to understand that it's all part of the laying down of the foundation for the kingdom of God, that's yet to come! and, as far as i know, every kingdom i've ever heard of has laws, yes, even God's (isah 2:3).

after all,

Matthew 6:33(NKJV)
33But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness (see ps 119:172, js 2 whole chapter), and all these things shall be added to you.

 

[Stryder06]

Why those commandmentsare certianly not the current commandments of the NC nor the one Given in I John 3:23, are they?

Like I said, ignored.

Here again the use of commandments is meant by you to be only the 10 Cs. It is a problem in understanding the truth.

Funny you can tell me what they aren't but you CAN'T tell me why John was shown the Ark of the Covenant. Why is that?

 

[Stryder06]

nm

 

[JohnRabbit]

That is correct. Not only from examining the statements Jesus, but also considering LK 16:16. So what is the truth? Evidently Luke if fibbing.

my answer is in post #244.

IOW Jesus changed the law. It doesn't matter where it is changed. The law didn't include a matter of the heart as a trangression thereof. Otherwise Jesus couldn't make that statement.

your statement goes against the written word, isah 42:21, the prophecy that Jesus was fulfilling. if not, you show me where this verse is fulfilled!

Then Jesus didn't fulfil all righteousness contrary to His testimony in LK 24:44.

yes, He did. just not like you think. if you'll read verses 46-48, He tells you what He fulfilled that was written about Him (so that there would be no doubt).

And you should note that the day of vengeance doesn't apply to Jesus. [/COLOR]

i'd do some more reading if i were you.

You should also note that chapter 21 is about end time events and not thing pertaining to Jesus. This is spelled out in Mat 5 and clarified in LK 24:44. You're demanding that the Mat 5 reference pertain to every prophecy in Scripture which it doesn't.

what i wrote had nothing to do with matt 5.

What did Jesus write?

nothing that i know of.

Wouldn't that be like Moses in this instance? Indeed Moses did write of Jesus such as Gen 1:26 and 3:15. I know that isn't complete and that isn't my purpose.

why are you writing dribble?

Jesus for sure!NOPE marriage and adultery was before the law. The law itself and Jesus both testify to this fact.Matter of opinion, I guess.

seems to me, that you have your facts wrong, gen 39:9!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Funny you can tell me what they aren't but you CAN'T tell me why John was shown the Ark of the Covenant. Why is that?

The Ark is safely guarded

http://www.christianforums.com/t7334510-24/#post50307985
Will the Ark of God be found?

The Treasury of the Arc of the Covenant Axum, Ethiopia

...........The group of young men did not reveal the theft to Prince Menelik until they were far away from Jerusalem. When at last they told him what they had done he asserted that they could not have succeeded in so bold a venture unless God had willed its outcome. Therefore he agreed that the Ark should remain with them. Thus Menelik brought the Arc to Ethiopia, to the sacred city of Axum, where it has remained ever since..........

 

[JohnRabbit]

Last time I checked the word my is possessive. If one possesses something it is at least in their control and ususally means they own it.

why do you think i asked you to explain what you wrote, to 1cor 7:19, which you refuse to do?!

So is the subject matter marriage and adultery or the law?

Is the focus sin or the law?

ok, go ahead and play dumb!

The point of the verse you reference is circumcision is the keeping of the law. Circumcision has nothing to do with marriage that I can see. Is Paul advocating an obligation to the law? How? I don't see anything requiring circumcision even in Romans 2. Why would Paul promote something he calls dung? Sure makes sense, doesn't it?

no, the point of the matter is, i asked you to explain your view of jn 15:10 in light of 1cor 7:19, written by paul, and you keep coming up with off-the-wall stuff not to answer!

How did I skirt the question? Isn't the issue the commandments and specifically the 10 Cs. Is that what I John 3:23 is saying? How? Please explain.

more deflection, sheesh!

Now you say that I skirt the issue by refusing to discuss v 4. In using this verse one is defining and limiting sin to the violation of the law. How can this idea be so?

We have an equal statement in Romans 14:23 saying whatsoever is not of faith is sin. This doesn't refer to the law.

i've already been over this with you before. but, again for the "hard of hearing", if one does not have faith, it is a clear rejection of God, therefore, in that rejection, one would violate the first commandment! now, tell me that you don't agree with that, and i'll leave you alone.

We also have Rom 5:13 that clearly says sin was in the world before the law. If that is so sin can't be only the violation of the law.

I what you really mean that I choose to consider the rest of the Scripture when I think about I John 3:4?

sin was in the world before or until the law was given, formally, at mt. sinai. but, sin could only be in the world if there was law, rom 4:15, otherwise, there's a contradiction! (but, for some reason, you guys can't see that)

It doesn't say whoever doesn't observe the law. Righteouness doesn't come by the law. see Rom 3:21, Gal 2:21, 3:21 and Phil 3:9. Same goes about Cain's righteousness referred to in v 12 below.

no, but it does say, "he that practice righteousness", hence the reference to ps 119:172! (use your noggin' after that). for us, righteousness does not come by the law because we have all sinned, in other words, transgressed the law.

we all deserve death, rom 6:23!

this is why we need Jesus! we can't keep the commandments, but He can (jn 15:10)!

but, with His help (gal 2:20), we can do as paul wrote:

Romans 8:4(NKJV)
4that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Again you have a problem with the pronouns. I sure wished sometimes there were no such things. It would make understing lots easier. I've addressed Mat 19:17-19 several times before. One must again consider not only the immediate context but the rest of Scripture as well. Your intention here makes Jesus lie (John 10)when He says one must come through Him to get into heaven or have access to God the Father, IOW possess salvation

no i don't, see my previous response.

And you wish to hang the all the Christian faith on obedience to a superceded law that no longer has jurisdiction by the use of v 4. The point of v 23 is the covenant has changed and so did the requirements of God. Now talk about who is real.

no, i'm just relying on what the bible says, js 2:16!

Where does from scratch promote keeping the commmandmnts? Please cite. I clearly don't promote sin which isn't the same thing as promoting obligation to the law for the Christian

reread what i wrote. i wasn't talking about you!

Isn't this saying that Jesus didn't issue the 10 Cs? I think so.

wrong again. reread what i said, dang!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Who did Moses chat with

Did we ever figure out who Moses chatted with?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Who did Moses chat with

Did we ever figure out who Moses chatted with?

yes, i answered the question in my post #109 earlier in the thread!

moses chatted with the One we know as the Christ!

 

[ToxicReboMan]

Exodus 3:5-6 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God. NIV


Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." NIV​

 

[jsimms615]

I think this survey is bias. I don't have two or three God's. God is one

 

[Frogster]

Hebrews is about the sacrifical system. It's about the majesty of Christ's ministry and how it did away with the earthly system. A cursory reading of the book reveals that.

Sorry bro, it was all a part of the old cov, the law, the priesthood, here are facts...ONE...




7;11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron?


10:8When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law),

HERE WE GOOOOOO, YA READY?


7;12For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.




LOOKIE HERE, THE 10 WERE IN THE OLD COV!

Deut 4:13 And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.

 

[Frogster]

of course you are!

Just like how you say that Mosaic law was in the world at the garden, yet is says sin was in the world before Moses!

rom 5;13for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

Explain that one!

 

[from scratch]

yes, i answered the question in my post #109 earlier in the thread!

moses chatted with the One we know as the Christ!

Yeppers that was an interesting post. Since they saw God why did Moses later ask to see God? Yes I realized that God said no one can see His face and live. So what was Moses asking? He saw God and yet when he asked to see God, he was denied.

This makes me wonder what they actually saw when the Scripture says they saw God. Yes I relaize that it says they saw God's feet. And the feet aren't discribed. The rock is though.

Here is the meaning of the word chazah that is used -
1) to see, perceive, look, behold, prophesy, provide
a) (Qal)
1) to see, behold
2) to see as a seer in the ecstatic state
3) to see, perceive
a) with the intelligence
b) to see (by experience)
c) to provide


I fully understand that it can be said to literally see. But what about the second word in the first definition? It is again mentioned in the third meaning to see, perceive. We commonly say we see when we understand someting. None of the items in definition 3 can be said to be physical.

This is why I personally don't think they actually saw a physical manifestion of God's feet.

Another word translate see/saw is eid&#333; which means to see with the eye. Why wasn't this word used if the actually saw God?

 

[from scratch]

Exodus 3:5-6 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” Then he said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God. NIV


Acts 3:13 "The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus." NIV
​

Interesting. So how does this affect what John Rabbit posted? I love discussion.

 

[from scratch]

I think this survey is bias. I don't have two or three God's. God is one

I guess that depends on what you mean when you say or use the word God. There is a clear distinction in the Bible naming all three members of the God head. Even in the OT.

 

[from scratch]

james 2:11, doesn't get any clearer that that!

"...but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law."

and before you go into your hissy, it's not me that's saying that, but the first part of the verse,

Very good JohnRabbit, very good! In reading the chapter how is it that this is a a command of the NC. What is James saying here? Is he infact stressing law observance? Usually James 2 is discussed from the standpoint of works. What works does James say we're to be doing? Is it the works of the law? Where is the law called the law of liberty in Scripture?

"For He who said,..."as for lk 16:16, put that together with eph 2:19-20, to understand that it's all part of the laying down of the foundation for the kingdom of God, that's yet to come! and, as far as i know, every kingdom i've ever heard of has laws, yes, even God's (isah 2:3).

Neither reference above from the NT deal with the law as in promoting it. Look at this - 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. Eph 2.

Notice verse 22 doesn't say through the law.

after all,

Matthew 6:33(NKJV)
33But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness (see ps 119:172, js 2 whole chapter), and all these things shall be added to you.

Yeppers and what was preached the kingdom of God or the law? LK 16:16. And what exactly were these things? Wealth? NOPE! just drink, food and clothing. The only things one needs which is different from the law.

 

[from scratch]

Funny you can tell me what they aren't but you CAN'T tell me why John was shown the Ark of the Covenant. Why is that?

Beats me. I don't really get into prophecy stuff as it doesn't affect my salvation. So Revelation isn't one of my very studied books. It has been abused to the point I've lost most interest in it. I do occasionally quote from it.