Who did Moses chat with?

JohnRabbit · Nov 7, 2011

from scratch said:
OK maybe I see what you're saying.

It seems to me that you claim Moses saw the back of Jesus.

yes, the One we now know as Jesus.

from scratch said:
So my question is Who was Moses speaking to? Who ever that was said you can't see My face and live. Why? Thousands have seen the face of Jesus Whom you claim Moses was only permitted to see the back of. Does God change? Not according to Mal 3:6 - remember.

the One we know as Jesus was speaking to moses, He's the Word of God, Jn 1:1! He emptied himself of glory to live a perfect life as a man, Jn 1:1, heb 2:9. yes, so thousands have seen Him. as per mal 3:6, i've always believed it meant that He doesn't change His ways, especially after reading verse 5.

from scratch said:
This then brings up another point. Did Moses see the back of Someone he wasn't talking with? Must be to fit you senario.

no, he saw the back of the One he was speaking with.

from scratch said:
Then say it was the glorified state of Jesus that Moses was forbidden to see and explain the form of the post resurrection Jesus appearing to the disciples that can access a secured room without coming thru a door. Wouldn't that be a glorified state?

i'm not that good at parsing, so i'm sorry if you're missing some of my meaning. all i know is what the bible said. moses asked to see God and was granted, but with restrictions. and yes, Jesus was resurrected back to His Glorious Body!

from scratch · Nov 7, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
Matthew 20:1-15(NKJV)
1For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard.
2Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
3And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace,
4and said to them, You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you. So they went.
5Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise.
6And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, Why have you been standing here idle all day?
7They said to him, Because no one hired us. He said to them, You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.
8So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.
9And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.
10But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.
11And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,
12saying, These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.
13But he answered one of them and said, Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?
14Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.
15Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?

God is love, even in the punishment of the wicked.

merciful.

I'm having trouble with the word everlasting being something different when describing eternal life and eternal death. Isn't hell where satan will be bound forever? Why doesn't this apply to man? Is there some reference to the distruction (annihailation) of satan?

I've already asked you about death and its meaning when referring to the second death. What death was it that man suffered by Adam's sin? Obviously we haven't seased to exist as an individual soul or species. So what is being talked about? Adam and Eve died that day yet continued to exist. So what is death?

from scratch · Nov 7, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
yes, the One we now know as Jesus.

the One we know as Jesus was speaking to moses, He's the Word of God, Jn 1:1! He emptied himself of glory to live a perfect life as a man, Jn 1:1, heb 2:9. yes, so thousands have seen Him. as per mal 3:6, i've always believed it meant that He doesn't change His ways, especially after reading verse 5.

no, he saw the back of the One he was speaking with.

i'm not that good at parsing, so i'm sorry if you're missing some of my meaning. all i know is what the bible said. moses asked to see God and was granted, but with restrictions. and yes, Jesus was resurrected back to His Glorious Body!

No I'm not missing a thing you're saying. I understand it perfectly. That is why we're having this exchange. You may think it is only for your or my benefit. I realize it goes way beyond you and me. If it was just you I'd have left long ago.

I'm sorry that parsing is a problem for you. I'm asking you to explain that Scripture. What I seem to pick up is a refusal. I really think you see a problem for your position. I'd do it for you but you will simply dismiss it. I think you're really dismissing it anyway. Thus I've made my point which you can't refute. It messes with your theology which is pinful. I understand. I had the same sort of issues over otherthings for 40 years. Yeppers I was stubborn in understanding.

JohnRabbit · Nov 7, 2011

from scratch said:
I'm having trouble with the word everlasting being something different when describing eternal life and eternal death.

how so?

from scratch said:
Isn't hell where satan will be bound forever? Why doesn't this apply to man?

angels are spirit beings and can live forever. they were created that way. man was created out of the physical ground and has only a temporary physio chemical existence.

from scratch said:
Is there some reference to the distruction (annihailation) of satan?

2pet 2:4, the key is in understanding the word translated "hell" in the verse.

from scratch said:
I've already asked you about death and its meaning when referring to the second death. What death was it that man suffered by Adam's sin? Obviously we haven't seased to exist as an individual soul or species. So what is being talked about? Adam and Eve died that day yet continued to exist.

the first death.

everyone who ever lived will be resurrected from this death, and then the judgement.

from scratch said:
So what is death?

death is the absence of life! no life whatsoever! nonexistent!

JohnRabbit · Nov 7, 2011

from scratch said:
No I'm not missing a thing you're saying. I understand it perfectly. That is why we're having this exchange. You may think it is only for your or my benefit. I realize it goes way beyond you and me. If it was just you I'd have left long ago.

I'm sorry that parsing is a problem for you. I'm asking you to explain that Scripture. What I seem to pick up is a refusal. I really think you see a problem for your position. I'd do it for you but you will simply dismiss it. I think you're really dismissing it anyway. Thus I've made my point which you can't refute. It messes with your theology which is pinful. I understand. I had the same sort of issues over otherthings for 40 years. Yeppers I was stubborn in understanding.

you do this all the time. why don't you just tell me what you're talking about?

i feel i explain my position to you, but you never explain your position to me.

you definitely don't answer my questions.

most of our posts mainly concern me stating something and you shooting it down.

what kind of dialogue is that?

David64 · Nov 7, 2011

from scratch said:
Originally Posted by David64

Ezk.18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die. And again in verse 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Malachi 4 speaks to the time when the wicked shall be destroyed.
1For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up, That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.
You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this, Says the LORD of hosts.

from scratch said:

I'm a little curious here. If they're annihilated how is anybody or thing going to tread them down in verse 3?

Click to expand...

The "you" and "your" in verse 3 are the righteous. They, if you had not read receive eternal life, they don't wind up in the fire.

Originally Posted by David64 Jesus speaks of this event in Mat.25:32-33,41 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Verse 41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire ...We just read what happens when these wicked souls/people end up in this fire Mal.4

In Revelation 20:6 we read that Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power... So the second death does have power over some. That second death is forever, eternal, ETERNAL DEATH, eternal punish-MENT; NOT eternal punish-ING.

There is only one being that would perpetuate the lie that God would torment people forever for one short life time of sin. That may be the way Satan would do things if he was in charge, but thank God Satan is not in charge, God is. Eternal punishing is Satans fate and he would like us to think it is our fate too.

from scratch said:

Can you explain the difference in the word everlasting in say John 3:16 and contrast it to Mat 25:41. I just can't seem to understand the difference.

Click to expand...

Not surprising but actually it's pretty easy. One is talking about "life" and the other is talking about "fire".
In the former did you not notice the contrast between "life" and "perish".

from scratch said:

I would love to hear what you think the second death is, more specifically death? Bet we have a disagreement there.

Click to expand...

I'm sure we do.
Death is death, you know, or maybe you don't, the cessation of life.
No more living; the oppsite of living. This is pretty easy stuff.

from scratch · Nov 7, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
you do this all the time. why don't you just tell me what you're talking about.

Come on now JohnRabbit. Speak the truth. I think you're out in left feild here in an empty stadium.

i feel i explain my position to you, but you never explain your position to me.

What do you think my posts are? If you don't understand why aren't you asking? Do you really want to hear or justify your doctrine. I guess your only desire it for me to abondon my position and say your right. Will you purchase a house next to you and give me a ride to your church too? Why can't we have a discussion? I've talked about your stuff often. Why do you simply dismiss? Are you under orders to refuse everything anyone but your church says or something? I know for a fact there is a denomination that promotes such which has your basic position. Yes there are other guilty of the same thing.(said both as a truth and for the benefit of the administration here. I don't wish to be told I'm just picking on you.) Do you want to grow or convert others to your thinking?

you definitely don't answer my questions.

Now be fair JohnRabbit.

most of our posts mainly concern me stating something and you shooting it down.

Ah so the real issue is you need validation meaning that I agree with you. If you say someting I agree with I'll say so. I've done it a few times here at CF.

what kind of dialogue is that?

I guess you might be talking about my shoting your ideas down. I do have to admit it is far to easy. Defend them and quit throwing in the towel. If you can defend them I can't shoot them down. Look don't play the poor me card. You don't see me playing it. Wonder why? Yeppers I do have problems once in a while with an answer. I just pray and think about it some. Most everything I post here comes right from my heart and I don't have to go look it up. I do consult dictionaries and quote from sources which are available to you on line as well as me. I do have a hard copy library as well that I occasionally quote. But is is stuff I know just needing a quote for validity and not just my saying so.

from scratch · Nov 7, 2011

David64 said:
from scratch said:

Originally Posted by David64

Ezk.18:4 Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die. And again in verse 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Malachi 4 speaks to the time when the wicked shall be destroyed.
1For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up, That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.
You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this, Says the LORD of hosts.
The "you" and "your" in verse 3 are the righteous. They, if you had not read receive eternal life, they don't wind up in the fire.

Originally Posted by David64 Jesus speaks of this event in Mat.25:32-33,41 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Verse 41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire ...We just read what happens when these wicked souls/people end up in this fire Mal.4

In Revelation 20:6 we read that Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power... So the second death does have power over some. That second death is forever, eternal, ETERNAL DEATH, eternal punish-MENT; NOT eternal punish-ING.

There is only one being that would perpetuate the lie that God would torment people forever for one short life time of sin. That may be the way Satan would do things if he was in charge, but thank God Satan is not in charge, God is. Eternal punishing is Satans fate and he would like us to think it is our fate too.

Not surprising but actually it's pretty easy. One is talking about "life" and the other is talking about "fire".
In the former did you not notice the contrast between "life" and "perish".

I'm sure we do.
Death is death, you know, or maybe you don't, the cessation of life.
No more living; the oppsite of living. This is pretty easy stuff.

Click to expand...

Look if you want to straighten out the quote stuff I''d love to respond to your post fully.

In the meantime I wish to know how the righteous are going to tread down the annihilated. That would seem impossible to me because if they are annihilated in verse 1 they don't exist in verse 3..

JohnRabbit · Nov 7, 2011

from scratch said:
Come on now JohnRabbit. Speak the truth. I think you're out in left feild here in an empty stadium.What do you think my posts are? If you don't understand why aren't you asking? Do you really want to hear or justify your doctrine. I guess your only desire it for me to abondon my position and say your right. Will you purchase a house next to you and give me a ride to your church too? Why can't we have a discussion? I've talked about your stuff often. Why do you simply dismiss? Are you under orders to refuse everything anyone but your church says or something? I know for a fact there is a denomination that promotes such which has your basic position. Yes there are other guilty of the same thing.(said both as a truth and for the benefit of the administration here. I don't wish to be told I'm just picking on you.) Do you want to grow or convert others to your thinking? Now be fair JohnRabbit.Ah so the real issue is you need validation meaning that I agree with you. If you say someting I agree with I'll say so. I've done it a few times here at CF.I guess you might be talking about my shoting your ideas down. I do have to admit it is far to easy. Defend them and quit throwing in the towel. If you can defend them I can't shoot them down. Look don't play the poor me card. You don't see me playing it. Wonder why? Yeppers I do have problems once in a while with an answer. I just pray and think about it some. Most everything I post here comes right from my heart and I don't have to go look it up. I do consult dictionaries and quote from sources which are available to you on line as well as me. I do have a hard copy library as well that I occasionally quote. But is is stuff I know just needing a quote for validity and not just my saying so.

ok, i get that you think i'm a "church" clonie repeating what the minister says. you can beat me up for what i believe, but nevertheless, their my beliefs as i read the bible.

i understand that we disagree and for some reason you think i'm trying to proselytize and preach!

i answer questions from my heart also guided by scripture which i quote. if i don't quote scripture, then i get accused of saying something with no backup. if quote scripture, i get accused of preaching.

so, yes, i defend my position and use scripture. this is the case with everyone who believes or else why believe?

so, of course i believe that what i read and have expressed in this forum is truth.

i guess you think i'm here to have my ego massaged.

i'm interested in all these differing views of Christianity and is interested on how people explain scripture in light of their belief..

from scratch · Nov 7, 2011

David64 said:
<snip>
Not surprising but actually it's pretty easy. One is talking about "life" and the other is talking about "fire".
In the former did you not notice the contrast between "life" and "perish".

The word everlasting has nothing to do with either life or death. I'm not asking aouth death or life. I'm asking about everlasting.

Next item I wish you to explain is death. This isn't related to everlasting. Notice I didn't say everlasting death. So can you provide a discussion on death, please? Thank you.

I'm sure we do.
Death is death, you know, or maybe you don't, the cessation of life.
No more living; the oppsite of living. This is pretty easy stuff.

That only is death of the phyical body. The same concept doesn't apply to the soul.

JohnRabbit · Nov 7, 2011

from scratch said:
David64 said:

Look if you want to straighten out the quote stuff I''d love to respond to your post fully.

In the meantime I wish to know how the righteous are going to tread down the annihilated. That would seem impossible to me because if they are annihilated in verse 1 they don't exist in verse 3..

Click to expand...

you're right! they will tread over them.

won't be impossible though, because their ashes will be all that's left of them!

so, are you saying that you don't believe that the wicked are going to burn up after the bible says so?

from scratch · Nov 8, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
ok, i get that you think i'm a "church" clonie repeating what the minister says. you can beat me up for what i believe, but nevertheless, their my beliefs as i read the bible.

JohnRabbit I don't care where you get your ideas from and adopt as your own. I'm not addressing JohnRabbit, I'm addressing the presentation of JohnRabbit. Please understand this. I'm making no personall attack, OK. I used to get lots of ideas from a church organization. I guess one of my traits is to ask why, especially if it doesn't work like it is promoted. Problem is I caught them misrepresenting things that didn't matter and then ask myself how can they tell me what is right if they can't get simple non issues correct? It is called critical thinking. I was in turmoil for 40 long years and still had trouble puting it together even after a direct unmistakeable response form the Holy Spirit. It was as clear as if it was shouted over a PA system in a stadium.

i understand that we disagree and for some reason you think i'm trying to proselytize and preach!

Yes did you complain that I never or seldom agree with you? This is a direct request for validation. It isn't a valid defense. A response yes, a defense no. It isn't even a discussion of the topoic. You're asking for agreement for vainty reasons. I don't do that. So yes I pick up that your trying to convert me without any evidence with this approach. You want me to believe like you that would be conversion.

i answer questions from my heart also guided by scripture which i quote. if i don't quote scripture, then i get accused of saying something with no backup. if quote scripture, i get accused of preaching.

Really? You have a position you wish to support and look for verses or use ones that you have been guided to and never investigated. I do wonder if you have ever read the complete Bible like a novel from begining to end. You certianly don't consider the complete Bible in your presentation. Sometimes you don't even consider a complete sentence. This make it so easy to shoot down as you say.

I sincerely do love you and am concerned about your soul. Yes you say the same about me. I love the truth and have been know to change my mind. God is so good.

so, yes, i defend my position and use scripture. this is the case with everyone who believes or else why believe?

I don't know how to explain to you that many use Scripture to defend wht they claim is true. They even use the same vocabulary. What most don't understand is what is meant by those same words, thus confusing their intended target. Pride puffs up and most won't admit their confusion. This gets them into trouble. Rarely do people like to be confronted. Listen to Proverbs. Don't they say a fool won't listen and a wise man does? Now I wish to ask if you've trule examined what I've said or just refused it because you disagree. Have I examined your position? Yes sir, along time ago before the internet.

so, of course i believe that what i read and have expressed in this forum is truth.

I have no doubt about that whatsoever. Seems sincere enough for me. I have read the Bible and agree with it and not a religious organization. I have examined more than one minister or preacher and one or two even admitted they were searching for something missing. Another thing that has greatly benefitted me is my cross cutural experience and rectifying what is said against what is meant. Hey my total experience isn't permitted any more. My speach patterns have become illegal even from cowboy and indian tv shows and movies. Tuff on an older generation. But I care deeply. Another gift of God that has served me extremely well is curiousity. And no one will remove me from my position about grace, ever. The people who push the law even want grace that the law doesn't give. Why is this?

from scratch · Nov 8, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
you're right! they will tread over them.

won't be impossible though, because their ashes will be all that's left of them!

so, are you saying that you don't believe that the wicked are going to burn up after the bible says so?

You really should read it and what you posted very carefully. If they're annihialted in verse one there aren't any ashes to walk on in verse three. And tread down implies that it is standing, not a pile. Annihilation implies no substance left. Ash is substance.

No it doesn say they will be consumed. Big difference. If the residue is ash there is still substance. And a soul has no physical substance to be made ash.

David64 · Nov 8, 2011

from scratch said:
The word everlasting has nothing to do with either life or death. I'm not asking aouth death or life. I'm asking about everlasting.

Next item I wish you to explain is death. This isn't related to everlasting. Notice I didn't say everlasting death. So can you provide a discussion on death, please? Thank you.That only is death of the phyical body. The same concept doesn't apply to the soul.

You are a soul, you do not have a soul.

When you die you are dead.

There is no thought or awareness in death.

It will be just like before you were born.

You need to detatch yourself from all those pagan notions of an eternal soul apart from your body.

Eternal life is a gift God gives to whom He will, it is not something you are born with.

The wages of sin is death not life.

Hentenza · Nov 8, 2011

David64 said:
You are a soul, you do not have a soul.

When you die you are dead.

There is no thought or awareness in death.

It will be just like before you were born.

You need to detatch yourself from all those pagan notions of an eternal soul apart from your body.

Eternal life is a gift God gives to whom He will, it is not something you are born with.

The wages of sin is death not life.

Rev. 6:9
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, How long, O [k]Lord, holy and true, [l]will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?

Rev. 20
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of [b]their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

I guess these souls are just dead but can talk?

David64 · Nov 8, 2011

Originally Posted by David64

You are a soul, you do not have a soul.

When you die you are dead.

There is no thought or awareness in death.

It will be just like before you were born.

You need to detatch yourself from all those pagan notions of an eternal soul apart from your body.

Eternal life is a gift God gives to whom He will, it is not something you are born with.

The wages of sin is death not life.

Hentenza said:
Rev. 6:9
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, How long, O [k]Lord, holy and true, [l]will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?

Rev. 20
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of [b]their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

I guess these souls are just dead but can talk?

Really? You think you have proven something here? You have to be kidding.
This is medaphorical like Able's blood crying out.
You thinking that was literal is really funny.
That is what happends to people when they are deiceved and believe a lie.

JohnRabbit · Nov 8, 2011

from scratch said:
JohnRabbit I don't care where you get your ideas from and adopt as your own. I'm not addressing JohnRabbit, I'm addressing the presentation of JohnRabbit. Please understand this. I'm making no personall attack, OK. I used to get lots of ideas from a church organization. I guess one of my traits is to ask why, especially if it doesn't work like it is promoted. Problem is I caught them misrepresenting things that didn't matter and then ask myself how can they tell me what is right if they can't get simple non issues correct? It is called critical thinking. I was in turmoil for 40 long years and still had trouble puting it together even after a direct unmistakeable response form the Holy Spirit. It was as clear as if it was shouted over a PA system in a stadium. Yes did you complain that I never or seldom agree with you? This is a direct request for validation. It isn't a valid defense. A response yes, a defense no. It isn't even a discussion of the topoic. You're asking for agreement for vainty reasons. I don't do that. So yes I pick up that your trying to convert me without any evidence with this approach. You want me to believe like you that would be conversion. Really? You have a position you wish to support and look for verses or use ones that you have been guided to and never investigated. I do wonder if you have ever read the complete Bible like a novel from begining to end. You certianly don't consider the complete Bible in your presentation. Sometimes you don't even consider a complete sentence. This make it so easy to shoot down as you say. [/COLOR]

I sincerely do love you and am concerned about your soul. Yes you say the same about me. I love the truth and have been know to change my mind. God is so good.I don't know how to explain to you that many use Scripture to defend wht they claim is true. They even use the same vocabulary. What most don't understand is what is meant by those same words, thus confusing their intended target. Pride puffs up and most won't admit their confusion. This gets them into trouble. Rarely do people like to be confronted. Listen to Proverbs. Don't they say a fool won't listen and a wise man does? Now I wish to ask if you've trule examined what I've said or just refused it because you disagree. Have I examined your position? Yes sir, along time ago before the internet.I have no doubt about that whatsoever. Seems sincere enough for me. I have read the Bible and agree with it and not a religious organization. I have examined more than one minister or preacher and one or two even admitted they were searching for something missing. Another thing that has greatly benefitted me is my cross cutural experience and rectifying what is said against what is meant. Hey my total experience isn't permitted any more. My speach patterns have become illegal even from cowboy and indian tv shows and movies. Tuff on an older generation. But I care deeply. Another gift of God that has served me extremely well is curiousity. And no one will remove me from my position about grace, ever. The people who push the law even want grace that the law doesn't give. Why is this?

i'm regret that you feel that i'm trying to convert you. that is simply not my intent.

i've always thought that i simply answered questions presented to me and interjected my take.

they say i'm in the "pro law" camp, but i don't see it that way.

i've said in this forum repeatedly that keeping the law or keeping the commandments, whichever way you want to state it, will save no one.

i believe that the law God gave to israel expresses His ways, which is the way of love.

the commandments don't make anyone righteous.

the commandments are righteousness, ps 119:172.

the commandments define sin.

we have all sinned and deserve death.

there is none righteous.

without the sacrifice of the Christ, we have no hope!

i have read the bible all the way through like a novel, 4 times.

JohnRabbit · Nov 8, 2011

from scratch said:
You really should read it and what you posted very carefully. If they annihialted in verse one there aren't any ashes to walk on in verse three. And tread down implies that it is standing, not a pile. Annihilation implies no substance left. Ash is substance.

No it doesn say they will be consumed. Big difference. If the residue is ash there is still substance. And a soul has no physical substance to be made ash.

man is a soul.

man doesn't have a soul.

remember? we are made from the dust of the ground.

man is a physical being not spirit.

Hentenza · Nov 8, 2011

David64 said:
Originally Posted by David64

You are a soul, you do not have a soul.

When you die you are dead.

There is no thought or awareness in death.

It will be just like before you were born.

You need to detatch yourself from all those pagan notions of an eternal soul apart from your body.

Eternal life is a gift God gives to whom He will, it is not something you are born with.

The wages of sin is death not life.

Really? You think you have proven something here? You have to be kidding.
This is medaphorical like Able's blood crying out.
You thinking that was literal is really funny.
That is what happends to people when they are deiceved and believe a lie.

John says its literal. He was instructed by the angel to ONLY write that which he was a witness of. Your issue is with John not with me.

Hentenza · Nov 8, 2011

JohnRabbit said:
man is a soul.

man doesn't have a soul.

remember? we are made from the dust of the ground.

man is a physical being not spirit.

Acts 7:59
59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”

Luke 23:46
46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.” Having said this, He breathed His last.

Jesus and Stephen disagree with you. What spirit did Stephen and Jesus ask God to receive? Why would they commend their spirit to God if they had no spirit to commend?

Who did Moses chat with?

Who did Moses talk to?

God the Father

God the Son (Jesus)

Both

Neither

just trying to understand

from scratch

Guest

from scratch

Guest

just trying to understand

just trying to understand

David64

Guest

from scratch

Guest

from scratch

Guest

just trying to understand

from scratch

Guest

just trying to understand

from scratch

Guest

from scratch

Guest

David64

Guest

I will fear no evil for You are with me

David64

Guest

just trying to understand

just trying to understand

I will fear no evil for You are with me

I will fear no evil for You are with me

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