Who did Moses chat with?

[JohnRabbit]

Who is the Speaker in Gen 3:15?

Who is the Word of God? (hint: jn 1:1)

 

[from scratch]

Because Jesus is the only Person of the Trinity that can be seen.

Face to face yes and Did Moses see Jesus then? What did Moses see? I read that He clearly something not identifible as Jesus.

 

[JohnRabbit]

He is clearly asking to identify by face aw we identify an individual who he is speaking with.

you're correct, and God gave him the reason why he couldn't see his face.

nevertheless, God said that He would allow moses to see Him, even though it was from the back. in other words, God's back was to moses.

therfore, moses saw God!

wouldn't you like to see God, even if it was from behind?

you can count me in!

the fact that moses didn't see God's face does not mean that moses did not see God!

now explain to me how no one has seen God at any time 1jn 4:12!

 

[from scratch]

Who is the Word of God? (hint: jn 1:1)

'Splain it please.

 

[Dorothea]

Face to face yes and Did Moses see Jesus then? What did Moses see? I read that He clearly something not identifible as Jesus.

Moses saw God's back. Since God the Father and God the Holy Spirit do not have a form or a "back," wouldn't you tend to agree that it was Jesus' back?

 

[JohnRabbit]

Face to face yes and Did Moses see Jesus then? What did Moses see? I read that He clearly something not identifible as Jesus.

Hebrews 2:9-10(NKJV)
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
10For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

made "lower" than the angels, suggesting a hierarchy.

1 God
2 Angels
3 man

so, if he was made lower than the angels, He had to have come from God.

He is the Word of God, per jn 1:1, and became flesh and dwelt among us (jn 1:14).

He is the Spokesman for God. besides, you didn't answer me on this:

John 1:18(NKJV)
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Who declared Whom, and why would He have to declare Him? (hint: jn 1:18a)

 

[Frogster]

Hebrews 2:9-10(NKJV)
9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
10For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

made "lower" than the angels, suggesting a hierarchy.

1 God
2 Angels
3 man

so, if he was made lower than the angels, He had to have come from God.

He is the Word of God, per jn 1:1, and became flesh and dwelt among us (jn 1:14).

He is the Spokesman for God. besides, you didn't answer me on this:

John 1:18(NKJV)
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.

Who declared Whom, and why would He have to declare Him? (hint: jn 1:18a)

as far as the angel part, it also says that God did not subject the world to come to angels, but to man, and we will judge angels, 1 cor 6.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Moses saw God's back. Since God the Father and God the Holy Spirit do not have a form or a "back," wouldn't you tend to agree that it was Jesus' back?

not according to the bible!!!!!!!!

Genesis 1:26(NKJV)
26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” (also see gen 1:27)

"Our" would include the Father, correct?

 

[from scratch]

Moses saw God's back. Since God the Father and God the Holy Spirit do not have a form or a "back," wouldn't you tend to agree that it was Jesus' back?

NOPE! the language is figuaretive as in the same way that they saw God's feet and Moses said written with the finger of God. If Moses already saw God by seeing His feet what would be the purpose of seeing His back? NONE! More later. gotta go.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

as far as the angel part, it also says that God did not subject the world to come to angels, but to man, and we will judge angels, 1 cor 6.

I have always been fascinated with that

http://www.christianforums.com/t7513769/
The Saints will Judge the World?

"Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?" 1 Cor 6:2

"Know you not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" 1 Cor 6:3

What do these verses mean?

 

[Dorothea]

NOPE! the language is figuaretive as in the same way that they saw God's feet and Moses said written with the finger of God. If Moses already saw God by seeing His feet what would be the purpose of seeing His back? NONE! More later. gotta go.

Ok.

I decided to look it up in my Orthodox Study Bible, and in the footnotes for Exodus 33:23, it says:

My back refers to the glory of God, for man can see His glory if his heart is pure. For Moses saw His glory to the extent he was capable, as is the case with any man. This glory is also called His energy. Man can know God in His energy, but not in His essence.

That's how the EO see that passage.

 

[from scratch]

Ok.

I decided to look it up in my Orthodox Study Bible, and in the footnotes for Exodus 33:23, it says:

My back refers to the glory of God, for man can see His glory if his heart is pure. For Moses saw His glory to the extent he was capable, as is the case with any man. This glory is also called His energy. Man can know God in His energy, but not in His essence.

That's how the EO see that passage.

Your comments help with my position against the pro law camp position. Their position requires that Moses spoke to and saw God in reality. I thought it was actually God's glory that Moses saw. I'm pretty sure there is a verse saying such. It just doesn't come to mind at the moment.

The pro law camp's position is really the reason for the thread and why it matters Who Moses spoke with. It is the basis on which they say Jesus is the One Who issued the 10 Cs justifying their use of John 14:15 to convict (really trap and condemn) the ignorant about the 10 Cs. It is why you see me ask about John 15:10. The language and sentence structure make them different commandments. They either have to deny the trinity out right which is usually in their fundamental belief statements and can't post here or they have to deny their position that Jesus issued the 10 Cs.

This has to do with the covenants as well. The pro law camp says we have a renewed covenant and not a new covenant. They have a major problem getting by the actual words found in the Scriptures I quote and refer to often in lots of threads. You may have noticed that I even say I don't need Paul to make my point. The absolutely detest Paul. Major discussion in Unorthodox Theology which isn't to stale at the moment. They have had an admin no report thread in the MJ section on the subject as well.

What this has to with is that some here say the Christian is obligated to the law. This doesn't square with Jesus or Paul. They must deny both to extablish the law requirement for salvation.

You may have noticed they now say law or God's to get by saying the 10 Cs which they really mean. One of them says he is even quopting the Apostles but really he is quoting the law through a third party to establish obligation. On one hand he will say the Apostles are teaching from the law and on the other hand will say they're pushing obligation to observe the law. Really they have gotten much slicker in approach in the last year.

A problem exist withing most Christian churches because of the dualism of preaching the law to manipulate and grace. These whatever you wish to call them are only saying what has worked to control the ignorant. Question them and see first hand how shallow their understanding is. If you're well based you'll get the left hand of fellowship very quickly and be called or branded a trouble maker. The problem is that because of our society they can't very well forbid your attendence unless something very stupid is done to base a legal action on. Thus for me church has become a you can come, put money in the plate, keep your mouth shut and get off our property. I see the same attitude here.The main difference is it isn't their church. Yes there are a few real Christians in churches and probably is the best place to meet them. I have a few long time friends met through the church. I'm doing just about as good here.

My mistake in the religious world is that I actually read my Bible. God is good and loves me very much. It still took me 40 years to come to a practical and unwavering faith about the truth. BTW I'm not the only one on this forum with these kind of ideas, issues and personal problems with orginized religion. There are some very solid folks here and some that are most of the way and to far to go back to most half truths. You see the religous christian or religious Christian here who can't defend their belief with Scripture. The religious Christian is why I can' say some aren't Christian in their beliefs as well as the rules enforcing such.

I have also been to church sponsored colleges and have taught classes at church, been on the volunteer staff of a few and a chaplian assistant in the Army. It has been a great journey so far.

 

[David64]

The pro license group does not know the offices Jesus fulfilled back through history.

 

[Dorothea]

Your comments help with my position against the pro law camp position. Their position requires that Moses spoke to and saw God in reality. I thought it was actually God's glory that Moses saw. I'm pretty sure there is a verse saying such. It just doesn't come to mind at the moment.

The pro law camp's position is really the reason for the thread and why it matters Who Moses spoke with. It is the basis on which they say Jesus is the One Who issued the 10 Cs justifying their use of John 14:15 to convict (really trap and condemn) the ignorant about the 10 Cs. It is why you see me ask about John 15:10. The language and sentence structure make them different commandments. They either have to deny the trinity out right which is usually in their fundamental belief statements and can't post here or they have to deny their position that Jesus issued the 10 Cs.

This has to do with the covenants as well. The pro law camp says we have a renewed covenant and not a new covenant. They have a major problem getting by the actual words found in the Scriptures I quote and refer to often in lots of threads. You may have noticed that I even say I don't need Paul to make my point. The absolutely detest Paul. Major discussion in Unorthodox Theology which isn't to stale at the moment. They have had an admin no report thread in the MJ section on the subject as well.

What this has to with is that some here say the Christian is obligated to the law. This doesn't square with Jesus or Paul. They must deny both to extablish the law requirement for salvation.

You may have noticed they now say law or God's to get by saying the 10 Cs which they really mean. One of them says he is even quopting the Apostles but really he is quoting the law through a third party to establish obligation. On one hand he will say the Apostles are teaching from the law and on the other hand will say they're pushing obligation to observe the law. Really they have gotten much slicker in approach in the last year.

A problem exist withing most Christian churches because of the dualism of preaching the law to manipulate and grace. These whatever you wish to call them are only saying what has worked to control the ignorant. Question them and see first hand how shallow their understanding is. If you're well based you'll get the left hand of fellowship very quickly and be called or branded a trouble maker. The problem is that because of our society they can't very well forbid your attendence unless something very stupid is done to base a legal action on. Thus for me church has become a you can come, put money in the plate, keep your mouth shut and get off our property. I see the same attitude here.The main difference is it isn't their church. Yes there are a few real Christians in churches and probably is the best place to meet them. I have a few long time friends met through the church. I'm doing just about as good here.

My mistake in the religious world is that I actually read my Bible. God is good and loves me very much. It still took me 40 years to come to a practical and unwavering faith about the truth. BTW I'm not the only one on this forum with these kind of ideas, issues and personal problems with orginized religion. There are some very solid folks here and some that are most of the way and to far to go back to most half truths. You see the religous christian or religious Christian here who can't defend their belief with Scripture. The religious Christian is why I can' say some aren't Christian in their beliefs as well as the rules enforcing such.

I have also been to church sponsored colleges and have taught classes at church, been on the volunteer staff of a few and a chaplian assistant in the Army. It has been a great journey so far.

I see! You have been doing much research on this, and I just came in with a simple comment. I am somewhat aware of what you're saying. I have not been that involved in that particular area on these boards, I guess. I don't know.....I don't know if you are talking about me or just generally people on this forum, but either way, I thank you for taking the time to explain why you started this thread and where you're coming from.

I know this probably won't mean much to you and others here, but the Orthodox Church is very non legalistic and more holistic and spiritual than any other Christian Sect I know of (except for the OO...we're about the same, if you ask me). Our life is about prayer and gaining a total union with God. But you've seen us EO's around here long enough, and you are free to believe what you like.

Anyway, I'm glad I was able to help you out with my OSB footnotes. I'm no spiritual giant. I've got much to learn.

 

[from scratch]

I see! You have been doing much research on this, and I just came in with a simple comment. I am somewhat aware of what you're saying. I have not been that involved in that particular area on these boards, I guess. I don't know.....I don't know if you are talking about me or just generally people on this forum, but either way, I thank you for taking the time to explain why you started this thread and where you're coming from.

I know this probably won't mean much to you and others here, but the Orthodox Church is very non legalistic and more holistic and spiritual than any other Christian Sect I know of (except for the OO...we're about the same, if you ask me). Our life is about prayer and gaining a total union with God. But you've seen us EO's around here long enough, and you are free to believe what you like.

Anyway, I'm glad I was able to help you out with my OSB footnotes. I'm no spiritual giant. I've got much to learn.

Reasearch? No - flat out a revelation from God. Yeppers He gets all the glory for this. Most everything I say here comes fresh right out of my heart. I do check some to help with wording which is very important.

I did that because it didn't come from me. I already knew this fact. Some here simply reject what I say because it is linked to my moniker and no other reason. Thus it helps tremendously to have someone else say things. If I didn't bless you for it forgive me.

Like I said I made a serious religious mistake - I read my Bible God did the rest.

I don't recall talking about you in general terms nor was that post directed at you. It was a mere response in general discussion and you just happened to be a launching pad. Remember I promised you more earlier in the day.

 

[Dorothea]

Reasearch? No - flat out a revelation from God. Yeppers He gets all the glory for this. Most everything I say here comes fresh right out of my heart. I do check some to help with wording which is very important.

I did that because it didn't come from me. I already knew this fact. Some here simply reject what I say because it is linked to my moniker and no other reason. Thus it helps tremendously to have someone else say things. If I didn't bless you for it forgive me.

Like I said I made a serious religious mistake - I read my Bible God did the rest.

I don't recall talking about you in general terms nor was that post directed at you. It was a mere response in general discussion and you just happened to be a launching pad. Remember I promised you more earlier in the day.

Oh, ok. I'm sorry for misunderstanding. Yes, I remember you had more to write later. Thanks.

 

[JohnRabbit]

as far as the angel part, it also says that God did not subject the world to come to angels, but to man, and we will judge angels, 1 cor 6.

not as i read it.

not to man, but to those who will be in the kingdom of God!

and we know who they are:

John 3:6(NKJV)
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46(NKJV)
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:50(NKJV)
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

last time i checked, man is still flesh and blood!

so, like the bible says, it cannot be man.

 

[from scratch]

not as i read it.

not to man, but to those who will be in the kingdom of God!

and we know who they are:

John 3:6(NKJV)
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:46(NKJV)
46However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15:50(NKJV)
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

last time i checked, man is still flesh and blood!

And last time I checked man is also a soul which is housed in the flesh and blood mud hut.The soul is the only part of man that won't be destroyed.

so, like the bible says, it cannot be man.

 

[YosemiteSam]

And last time I checked man is also a soul which is housed in the flesh and blood mud hut.The soul is the only part of man that won't be destroyed.

"And the soul that sinneth it shall die"...soul cannot be destroyed...where do you come up with that idea...

 

[from scratch]

"And the soul that sinneth it shall die"...soul cannot be destroyed...where do you come up with that idea...

Can be and will or done are very different things. If you believe in annihiliation you may take comfort. I personally think that doctrine if believed in reality encourages the wicked to party hearty because it will really be over. So where is the motivation to do different?

I have no clue as to why eternal life means unending bliss while eternal punishment is for a period of time. Can you explaing the difference in the word eternal?