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But you keep forgetting what law is being talked about. You're mixing things in your big mixing bowl.
Gee....ummmm why don't u know it?
Ok...the promise fulfillment came after the law, hence no more tutor of gal 3:22-25.
19Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary
So chronologically, the no sin, no transgression of 4;15, was after the law, where the no sin no law of Romans 5;13 was before the law, as it clearly says. SIN WAS IN THE WORLD, FROM ADAM, BEFORE THE LAW.
UNTIL 3;19..UNTIL...THE PROMISE.
Done!
So what do you want me to say about your verse? Do you want me to say that murder, lying, theft and adultery are righteous acts or something? All of those activities are preformed from and by the lust of the flesh according to Gal 5.what law is being talked about, and why won't you answer me on ps 119:172?
I'm curious John. How does before come to mean current? My thing is that before means previously to something. I put what I'm talking about in your post in black.ok, i see what you're saying now.
why don't you just say things like this from the jump!
i just don't see it that way.
i see it as, the "ten" being in existence before sinai even at the time of adam.
the "ten" define sin (1jn 3:4).
the covenant made with israel involved the "ten" and the statutes and judgments.
later, they were given the ceremonial ritual laws (the tutor), which i believe, paul calls the "works of law". these were the washings, the sacrifices, and the like. these laws were temporary, only until messiah. they foreshadowed the things to come.
these are the laws that were added as i see the scriptures.
so, when i read "sin was in the world before the law" or "until the law", that means that the law existed and people were transgressing the law - the "ten".
sin is not imputed were there's no law, but there was a flood and all flesh died according to the bible, save noah and his crew.
that tells me that sin was imputed!
therefore there had to be a law that these who died in the flood transgressed.
Provide the references. Implication doesn't work for support.The 10 Commandments are a spiritual law...they existed at the creation of man...careful study of the scriptures...you can find all 10 commandments before mt sinai...and each transgression is called a sin!
Where does it say some one was charged and punished according to the law. Now go grab Cain. And I will give you Abraham.no!, the bible says so..."...where there is no law there is no transgression."
No I would have had to clean my new puter screen after snorting hot coffee through my nose. Just not a real comfortable experience.glad you didn't you might have burned yourself...
Look at who is speaking above. It is a good idea to read and believe all the Bible.I dont understand why they just don't believe their bible.
ok, i see what you're saying now.
why don't you just say things like this from the jump!
i just don't see it that way.
i see it as, the "ten" being in existence before sinai even at the time of adam.
the "ten" define sin (1jn 3:4).
the covenant made with israel involved the "ten" and the statutes and judgments.
later, they were given the ceremonial ritual laws (the tutor), which i believe, paul calls the "works of law". these were the washings, the sacrifices, and the like. these laws were temporary, only until messiah. they foreshadowed the things to come.
these are the laws that were added as i see the scriptures.
so, when i read "sin was in the world before the law" or "until the law", that means that the law existed and people were transgressing the law - the "ten".
sin is not imputed were there's no law, but there was a flood and all flesh died according to the bible, save noah and his crew.
that tells me that sin was imputed!
therefore there had to be a law that these who died in the flood transgressed.
I have done that numerous times on GTNo I would have had to clean my new puter screen after snorting hot coffee through my nose. Just not a real comfortable experience.
Obviously you don't see what is written here..."for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given...stop...what law?...continue, "but sin is not counted where there is no law"...stop...we know that Adam sinned...we know that Sodom and Gomorrah sinned...so sin in the last part was counted!!!...God flooded the world because of sin...so before whatever law Paul speaks of in the first part of the verse had to come or "was added" to an already existing law.
So what do you want me to say about your verse? Do you want me to say that murder, lying, theft and adultery are righteous acts or something? All of those activities are preformed from and by the lust of the flesh according to Gal 5.
I'm intersted in understanding Who Moses talked with?
Is there any Scriptural evidence for one or the other in the trinity doctrine?
Or is John saying that The Father and Jesus are the same Individual for lack of a better expression?
I'm looking at and for Scriptural evidence. You can provide anything elseyou like but only with support meaning you can use things outside the Bible. I just want to know what you base your idea on.
ok, i see what you're saying now.
why don't you just say things like this from the jump!
i just don't see it that way.
i see it as, the "ten" being in existence before sinai even at the time of adam.
the "ten" define sin (1jn 3:4).
the covenant made with israel involved the "ten" and the statutes and judgments.
later, they were given the ceremonial ritual laws (the tutor), which i believe, paul calls the "works of law". these were the washings, the sacrifices, and the like. these laws were temporary, only until messiah. they foreshadowed the things to come.
these are the laws that were added as i see the scriptures.
so, when i read "sin was in the world before the law" or "until the law", that means that the law existed and people were transgressing the law - the "ten".
sin is not imputed were there's no law, but there was a flood and all flesh died according to the bible, save noah and his crew.
that tells me that sin was imputed!
therefore there had to be a law that these who died in the flood transgressed.
I'm curious John. How does before come to mean current? My thing is that before means previously to something. I put what I'm talking about in your post in black.
Did those in the flood, have the mosaic law yet?
John, do u understand yet, that sin entered the world, through Adam, and it was not a Mosaic transgression?
Why did sin and death spread to all, even though they did not have the law, or do the sin of Adam? It is right in 5.
Did those in the flood, have the mosaic law yet?
John, do u understand yet, that sin entered the world, through Adam, and it was not a Mosaic transgression?
Caveat though, I think you think we were made righteous by works though..lol...
Coincidentally Moses was drawn out of the water, just as Noah and his family were saved from the flood watersmoses wasn't born yet, as far as i know.
i've already stated that i believe the "ten" were in existent from the beginning.
so, the law that was before or until, 430 years later even, was the ceremonial - works of law, that was added.
these laws required physical labor to accomplish.
not like the "ten", which requires no physical labor, or physical work to accomplish.
so what was added was a "temporal law", like washings, which showed the need to be cleansed by God's Holy Spirit.
there were sacrifices which pointed to the sacrifice of the Christ.
these were laws that were added because of transgressions. and they transgressed the "ten", because they define sin, (gen 39:9, 1jn 3:4).
look:
Hebrews 9:1,10(NKJV)
1Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary...10concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
look at what to with these ordinance were concerned. fleshly (physical) ordinances, "works of law", by which no man will be justified.
Ephesians 2:15(NKJV)
15having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
that law served it's purpose. foreshadowed the things to come and was done away.
for the law is spiritual, the part that God, Himself wrote.
God didn't write fleshly ordinances!
it defines sin.
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