Who are the Zadokites Speaking of?

[HARK!]

I'm thinking it would be judicious to know when they did this, did you say something about it being during Shavuot?

If so we would have to reread the passages concerning Shavuot and see where this could fit in.
I'm thinking like a moed, done yearly could that be the reason? Or taking into account what you posted about the
new members, it could be for their befit or part of an initiation of some sort?

I don't recall mentioning Shavuot. Maybe Daq?

Anyway, the author of the paper that Daq presented, mentioned Shavuot:

The Covenant Renewal Ceremony as the Main Function of Qumran

Unlike any other group or philosophy in ancient Judaism, the ya?ad sect obliged all members of the sect to leave their places of residence all over the country and gather in the sect’s central site to participate in a special annual ceremony of renewal of the covenant between God and each of the...

www.mdpi.com

 

[visionary]

Were Sadducees Zadokites?

 

[visionary]

The Zadokites became known as the Essenes, (mostly) and maintained their loyalty to the Davidic line and the covenant between the them.
Yeshua was rejected only by the corrupt temple leadership. The anointed Temple authority (The Zadokites) had been ousted by Antiochus in 160 BC. In the days of Yeshua this corrupt priesthood was still there. Non the less in acts we read that there were many myraids of Jews. The Saducean sect which took over Judaism was not the anointed priesthood of Zadokites. The Escenes were the anointed Davidic priesthood.

 

[HARK!]

The Zadokites became known as the Essenes, (mostly) and maintained their loyalty to the Davidic line and the covenant between the them.
Yeshua was rejected only by the corrupt temple leadership. The anointed Temple authority (The Zadokites) had been ousted by Antiochus in 160 BC. In the days of Yeshua this corrupt priesthood was still there. Non the less in acts we read that there were many myraids of Jews. The Saducean sect which took over Judaism was not the anointed priesthood of Zadokites. The Escenes were the anointed Davidic priesthood.

The Essenes and the Zadokites were two different groups. Early on, during the discovery of the DSS, the scrolls were attributed to the Essenes. This stuck; and it seems that many scholars have difficulty letting go of this rumor. The Essenes were in Ein Gedi.

 

[HARK!]

Were Sadducees Zadokites?

No.

(CLV) Mt 22:23
In that day there came to Him Sadducees, who are saying there is no resurrection. And they inquire of Him,

(CLV) Mt 22:24
saying, "Teacher, Moses said, If anyone should die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife and shall raise up seed to his •brother.

(CLV) Mt 22:25
Now there were with us seven brothers, and the first, -marrying, deceases. And having no seed, he leaves his wife to his brother.

(CLV) Mt 22:26
Likewise the second also, and the third, till the seven.

(CLV) Mt 22:27
Now, subsequently to all, the woman died.

(CLV) Mt 22:28
In the resurrection, then, of which of the seven will she be the wife? For they all have had her."

(CLV) Mt 22:29
Now, answering, Jesus said to them, "You are deceived, not being acquainted with the scriptures, nor yet with the power of God.

(CLV) Mt 22:30
For in the resurrection neither are they marrying nor taking in marriage, but are as messengers of God in heaven.

Where can we find this in scripture?


1 Enoch 15:5-7:

5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were formerly spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

The Sadducees rejected 1 Enoch.

The Zadokites at Betharaba embraced it.

This leads to the question, who were the sons of darkness?

 

[visionary]

Was King David a zodokite? ...giving him the shewbread to eat straight out of the Holy Temple, indicates more than moral physical support

 

[HARK!]

Was King David a zodokite? ...giving him the shewbread to eat straight out of the Holy Temple, indicates more than moral physical support

To my understanding David was of Judah, not Levi.

The way I remember that story was that David was in desperate hunger. This was not a casual meal to my recollection.

Yahshua's disciples harvested grain on Shabbat.

 

[Lulav]

The Essenes and the Zadokites were two different groups. Early on, during the discovery of the DSS, the scrolls were attributed to the Essenes. This stuck; and it seems that many scholars have difficulty letting go of this rumor. The Essenes were in Ein Gedi.

They also had a quarter in the city of Jerusalem as well didn't they?

Yes, we must remember who took over the discovery and much of it was to make sure their 'agenda' wasn't compromised.

Was King David a zodokite? ...giving him the shewbread to eat straight out of the Holy Temple, indicates more than moral physical support

Actually it was the Mishkan, the Temple wasn't build yet.

As far as King Davids genealogy, it is interesting to note that His roots are not entirely pure from Judah.

His GGGrandfather Salmon married a Canaanite prostitute, Rahab.
They in turn produced, Boaz 'the kinsman redeemer' and he married a widow named Ruth who was from Moab.
Their child, David's Grandfather, Obed produced Jesse, Davids father.

Now Jesse is interesting as some believe that his wife's' name was 'Nahash' for those reading this name means 'serpent'.

So as we can see, David comes from a long line of mixed soup.

As for the shewbread, the priest told David that he would give it to them, only if he and the men had not recently had sex.

5 And David answered the priest, and said unto him, Of a truth women have been kept from us about these three days, since I came out, and the vessels of the young men are holy, and the bread is in a manner common, yea, though it were sanctified this day in the vessel.​

Strange wording, especially mentioning the three days .
However we see another odd statement from the priest.

6 So the priest gave him hallowed bread: for there was no bread there but the shewbread, that was taken from before the LORD, to put hot bread in the day when it was taken away.​

The Shew bread, or 'Bread of the presence' was changed out on Friday so there would be fresh bread there on the Sabbath.
This statement by the priest could be trying to give reference to the day David was there, or it could be that he gave it to them because it was 'old', that they were ready to change out the week old bread for the fresh 'hot ' bread.

 

[daq]

The Zadokites became known as the Essenes, (mostly) and maintained their loyalty to the Davidic line and the covenant between the them.
Yeshua was rejected only by the corrupt temple leadership. The anointed Temple authority (The Zadokites) had been ousted by Antiochus in 160 BC. In the days of Yeshua this corrupt priesthood was still there. Non the less in acts we read that there were many myraids of Jews. The Saducean sect which took over Judaism was not the anointed priesthood of Zadokites. The Escenes were the anointed Davidic priesthood.

There is a better, more literal, modern translation of the lengthy passage from Yosephus, (Wars), concerning the Essenes. It's copyrighted material but you can read it online at the following Biblical Archaeology link.

Josephus on the Essenes

Explore Josephus’s detailed account of the Essenes, a strict Jewish sect known for communal living, ascetic practices, and spiritual discipline. Discover how his writings inform debates about the Dead Sea Scrolls and the identity of the Qumran community.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

What Yosephus says therein is an almost perfect match with the theory linked in Reply #15. However I would disagree with the notion that there were no permanent occupants dwelling at Damasek / Dameshek, (Qumran), and would rather say that likely there were some who dwelt there in tents, in areas immediate around the main structure, that is, the Tzaddokim who dwelt there and oversaw the community. There may also have been a few small permanent structures within the main compound that were used for dwellings for the most important members among those set over the community.

 

[Lulav]

There is a better, more literal, modern translation of the lengthy passage from Yosephus, (Wars), concerning the Essenes. It's copyrighted material but you can read it online at the following Biblical Archaeology link.

Josephus on the Essenes

Explore Josephus’s detailed account of the Essenes, a strict Jewish sect known for communal living, ascetic practices, and spiritual discipline. Discover how his writings inform debates about the Dead Sea Scrolls and the identity of the Qumran community.

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

What Yosephus says therein is an almost perfect match with the theory linked in Reply #15. However I would disagree with the notion that there were no permanent occupants dwelling at Damasek / Dameshek, (Qumran), and would rather say that likely there were some who dwelt there in tents, in areas immediate around the main structure, that is, the Tzaddokim who dwelt there and oversaw the community. There may also have been a few small permanent structures within the main compound that were used for dwellings for the most important members among those set over the community.

Yes, I can see that after a read of your link. They do indeed sound one and the same.

 

[daq]

Yes, I can see that after a read of your link. They do indeed sound one and the same.

Ḥessenim or possibly Ḥessenin (Aramaic?) ~ Possessors / Inheritors

Look closely and studiously at Daniel 7:18 and Daniel 7:22, (a very important text to those at Dameshek-Qumran). And ḥasan or ḥesen is very similar in meaning to Dameshek, "Blood Inheritor", but both have multiple meanings. In the Hebrew texts the shin of Dames(h)ek is pointed with the sound of samek, as in Damesek, and that meaning is also relevant because of typology. Dam is of course blood, and saq is just as it sounds in English, a sack, and the same word is also used for sackcloth, so Damesek or Damasek in that case probably means something like a sack of blood or a "blood sack", (lol, sounds crazy, I know, but not once you realize it simply speaks of a human being, as in, "the land of Damascus", (also a body-temple analogy)).

 

[Lulav]

How does that relate to Paul going to Damascus. He talks about being in Arabia as well and that would put him to the south/SouthEast of Jerusalem, not North, NorthEast.

Do you think he was traveling there after the Zadokites, who believed in Yeshua but separated themselves from the corrupt government in Jerusalem?

 

[HARK!]

Do you think he was traveling there after the Zadokites, who believed in Yeshua but separated themselves from the corrupt government in Jerusalem?

That thought has crossed my mind.

 

[daq]

How does that relate to Paul going to Damascus. He talks about being in Arabia as well and that would put him to the south/SouthEast of Jerusalem, not North, NorthEast.

Do you think he was traveling there after the Zadokites, who believed in Yeshua but separated themselves from the corrupt government in Jerusalem?

If you were responding to me, yes, I do believe that. I have discussed it briefly in a few different threads: I doubt Yerushalem had "authority to bind" in Damascus Syria, but rather quite likely the opposite, that the governor of Syria, (usually ruling from Damascus), would have had authority to bind in Yerushalem, and especially after the census of Quirinius and the uprising which followed. However the Kohanim at Yerushalem would have had such authority in Dameshek-Qumran, (re: Acts 9:1-2, Acts 9:13-14).

Speaking of Paul's journey into Arabia to immerse, it would have been six months, just as Yakob, from the 22nd of the first month to the 22nd of the seventh month which Yakob spent in Sukkoth, (to the end of the feast in the seventh month). After six months Paul then returns to Dameshek and preaches there for three years, and the full three years and six months are the same as that of the Prophets: a time, (two)times, and half a time, the measures of the Mishkan and later the Temple, (although the Temple was larger, but the same ratios: one square, two squares, and the porch is the half). Elohim has spoken in His sanctuary, I will rejoice, I will divide Shekem, and measure out the valley of Sukkoth, (Psa 60:6, Psa 108:7).

A straight line on the map, from Shekem to Sukkoth, points out Peniel and Maḥanaim. The line runs right down the middle of a great symbolic footprint of the Mishkan across the valley of Sukkoth. At the same time the line divides Shekem it also measures out the valley of Sukkoth and points out Peniel, marking out this portion of Yakob's journey back home from Padan-Aram. Genesis 32-35 is three and a half years, a time, (two)times, and half a time.

To kick against the cattle-prod is to the drying of the thigh, (Gen 32:32, Acts 26:14).

 

[Lulav]

If you were responding to me, yes, I do believe that. I have discussed it briefly in a few different threads: I doubt Yerushalem had "authority to bind" in Damascus Syria, but rather quite likely the opposite, that the governor of Syria, (usually ruling from Damascus), would have had authority to bind in Yerushalem, and especially after the census of Quirinius and the uprising which followed. However the Kohanim at Yerushalem would have had such authority in Dameshek-Qumran, (re: Acts 9:1-2, Acts 9:13-14).

The question was open to all daq, thanks for responding. I wonder though about the description Paul gives of being in Damascus, the street called 'straight' as well as the part about escaping in a basket over a wall.

Speaking of Paul's journey into Arabia to immerse, it would have been six months, just as Yakob, from the 22nd of the first month to the 22nd of the seventh month which Yakob spent in Sukkoth, (to the end of the feast in the seventh month). After six months Paul then returns to Dameshek and preaches there for three years, and the full three years and six months are the same as that of the Prophets: a time, (two)times, and half a time, the measures of the Mishkan and later the Temple, (although the Temple was larger, but the same ratios: one square, two squares, and the porch is the half). Elohim has spoken in His sanctuary, I will rejoice, I will divide Shekem, and measure out the valley of Sukkoth, (Psa 60:6, Psa 108:7).

A straight line on the map, from Shekem to Sukkoth, points out Peniel and Maḥanaim. The line runs right down the middle of a great symbolic footprint of the Mishkan across the valley of Sukkoth. At the same time the line divides Shekem it also measures out the valley of Sukkoth and points out Peniel, marking out this portion of Yakob's journey back home from Padan-Aram. Genesis 32-35 is three and a half years, a time, (two)times, and half a time.

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To kick against the cattle-prod is to the drying of the thigh, (Gen 32:32, Acts 26:14).

That's a whole lot more than my sleepy mind can comprehend right now. I'll have to revisit this, it seems packed with much treasure.

 

[Lulav]

I'll have to do a quick refresher of Daniel. There is a lot contained there, but some argue it can't be trusted as the historical parts don't match up. Could it possibly be because there is more to it? More sod than remez?