Who are the 144,000

[Apple Sky]

Those Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints became the "gifts" which it was necessary for a high priest to offer (as in Hebrews 8:3). When Christ had ascended, he led a "multitude of captives" and gave them as "gifts to men" (as Ephesian 4:8-12 mentions). Christ the newly-crowned Great High Priest then returned to earth shortly afterward that same morning, to encounter those women on the road who held Him by the feet and worshipped Him.

This is amazing, I got the shivers just reading this.

 

[3 Resurrections]

This is amazing, I got the shivers just reading this.

It hit me the same way when I finally was able to connect the dots about these Matthew 27:52-53 saints. These "First-fruits" were still among the early church, serving in the capacity of prophets, evangelists, apostles (not the Twelve), pastors and teachers, for the work of edifying the body of Christ.

Just think what an encouragement the very presence of those Matthew 27:52-53 saints were for those in the early church who were about to undergo a rapid series of persecutions and martyrdom. They had the proof of the 144,000 Matthew 27:52-53 saints living in their midst which they could see and touch. Resurrected proof of what their own resurrected bodies would be like if they were to die for Christ. It would have been enough to make one willing to walk boldly into a Roman arena and be ripped apart by lions, just knowing that their death was precious in the eyes of the Son of Man, and that in the next bodily resurrection event, not a hair of their heads would have perished.

 

[keras]

This is amazing, I got the shivers just reading this.

But it isn't what actually happened.
People love to add and embellish scripture.

We are not told that those resurrected people, who rose at the same time as Jesus did, had any purpose other than as a sign of Gods power.
As for the 144,000, we are plainly told what they do in Isaiah 66:19. Believe that, or stay in error and speculation.

 

[3 Resurrections]

We are not told that those resurrected people, who rose at the same time as Jesus did, had any purpose other than as a sign of Gods power.

Then you are not considering the "multitude of captives" which the ascended Christ gave as "gifts to men" in Ephesians 4:8-12. Their purpose was stated plainly as serving in the roles of evangelists, apostles (not the Twelve), prophets, pastors and teachers, "...for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ." More than a sign of God's power over the grave, the 144,000 "First-fruits" worked among the early church to help edify and to build it up.

In Romans 8:23, Paul wrote for the early church at the time, saying that "...ourselves also, which HAVE the First-fruits of the Spirit..." This was NOT the "Fruit of the Spirit" being spoken about (such as love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc.). Paul was saying that these resurrected 144,000 First-fruits saints were still among the church at that time. They were examples of the work of the Holy Spirit's redemption of the bodies of the saints, which all the believers were earnestly waiting to share in the next resurrection event to come.

 

[Apple Sky]

We are not told that those resurrected people, who rose at the same time as Jesus did,

What would you do if you were resurrected from the dead ?

 

[keras]

What would you do if you were resurrected from the dead ?

As I don't expect to live till the end of the Millennium, it will be when I am brought up to stand before God in Judgment, along with everyone who has died from Adam until the 7000 years of Gods Plan for mankind is over.
I do not see anywhere in the Bible where people are resurrected. The only exceptions are a few like Lazarus and the martyrs killed during the reign of the beast. Revelation 20:4 None of them will receive Eternal life then and like Lazarus and those martyrs, they can and will die again. Rev 20:6

 

[Apple Sky]

I do not see anywhere in the Bible where people are resurrected.

So what about these folk in Mathew 27:53 who came alive again ?

 

[Marilyn C]

King James Bible
And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.



So you must be Jewish & a virgin.

Could it be that these 144,000 are the babies that were killed by King Herod when Jesus was born ? As it also says in scripture that they must be virgins.

Herod, the king of Judaea, watches as his soldiers slaughter the innocent children of Bethlehem in an attempt to kill the infant Jesus, whom Herod feared would eventually seize his kingdom. According to Boccaccio, 144,000 children were murdered.

The 144,000 from each tribe will eventually go to the New Jerusalem to be part of the rule there -

Priests

Christ has set aside 144,000 priests relating to the 12 tribes of Israel. These are symbolically described as `144 cubits,` - Heb. `ammah,` meaning the unit of measurement.


These 144,000 priests were the beginning, the first fruits unto God – the measurement -`pure unto God.` (Rev. 14: 1 – 5) God has promised that Israel will be `a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.` (Ex. 19: 6)

 

[3 Resurrections]

everyone who has died from Adam until the 7000 years of Gods Plan for mankind is over.

You and I are in agreement that there is a 7000-year plan designed by God for fallen mankind. After that "week" of 7 millennium periods is over, the ages of eternity begin.

I do not see anywhere in the Bible where people are resurrected. The only exceptions are a few like Lazarus and the martyrs killed during the reign of the beast. Revelation 20:4 None of them will receive Eternal life then and like Lazarus and those martyrs, they can and will die again. Rev 20:6

But this is off track. It is nowhere taught in scripture that people can die twice physically. Nowhere. It goes totally against the Hebrews 9:27 rule that "it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, and after this the judgment". ONCE ONLY.

 

[keras]

So what about these folk in Mathew 27:53 who came alive again ?

It is nowhere taught in scripture that people can die twice physically. Nowhere. It goes totally against the Hebrews 9:27 rule that "it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, and after this the judgment". ONCE ONLY.

Lazarus and all who were raised by Jesus and Elijah, did die again and the second death of the raised Christian martyrs, Rev 20:4, will happen.
But, as we are told in John 11:23-24 and Rev 20:6, their second death does not mean they have lost their Eternal life, which they will receive at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Lazarus and all who were raised by Jesus and Elijah, did die again and the second death of the raised Christian martyrs, Rev 20:4, will happen.
But, as we are told in John 11:23-24 and Rev 20:6, their second death does not mean they have lost their Eternal life, which they will receive at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium.

Keras, you are not getting the correct definition of what the "second death" actually is. It is NOT a second death of any individual person. The "Second Death" is another name for the "Lake of Fire" in Rev. 21:14, which was the second time that the city of Jerusalem and its temple had burned down. "Death" and "Hell" (the grave) came to overcome the city of Jerusalem for the first time back in 586 BC when the Babylonians took the city and burned it. Isaiah 28-29 predicted this destruction of Jerusalem with "the flame of devouring fire", when Death and Hell overwhelmed the inhabitants of the city.

The second time that "Death" and "Hell" (the grave) came upon Jerusalem was in AD 70 when the Roman invasion finished by torching everything that was left in the city of Jerusalem. From a distance, the entire city appeared to be engulfed in flames - the "Lake of Fire" being an apt description of the city's fiery condition at the time.

A "second death" for people is not mentioned at all in the Rev. 20:4 reference you gave. NOBODY in scripture is described as dying a second time after their bodily resurrection. This idea of yours runs counter to the Hebrews 9:27 limitation for a ONE TIME ONLY appointment with death for all mankind.

 

[keras]

A "second death" for people is not mentioned at all in the Rev. 20:4 reference you gave. NOBODY in scripture is described as dying a second time after their bodily resurrection.

You contradict scripture.
Rev 20:4 is plainly about those Christians who will be killed during the 42 month period of worlds control by the 'beast'.
Lazarus died again. ONLY Jesus has risen from the dead and He went back to the Spiritual state, as He always was.

 

[3 Resurrections]

ONLY Jesus has risen from the dead and He went back to the Spiritual state, as He always was.

This is a view espoused by Full Preterists - the mistaken belief that Christ discarded His resurrected, glorified, physical body form as He ascended into heaven in Acts 1. If that were true, then believers at that point would have ceased to have a representative Great High Priest intercessor in heaven.

It also would deny the Hebrews teaching that the resurrected, glorified Christ "ever liveth to make intercession for them" (Heb. 7:25) and that, once resurrected and established as our Great High Priest, Christ "continueth ever" in that same state (Heb. 7:24). Other high priests before Christ died and lost their ability to be the representative of the people, but Christ is "made a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek". He has "no end of days". "He being raised from the dead dieth no more. Death hath no more dominion over Him" (Romans 6:9). If Christ had forfeited that glorified, resurrected body form, it would have died a second time, and that is not possible for Christ to do, nor for any other resurrected individual either.

You contradict scripture.
Rev 20:4 is plainly about those Christians who will be killed during the 42 month period of worlds control by the 'beast'.
Lazarus died again.

No, I'm not contradicting scripture. Revelation 20:4 says absolutely nothing about resurrected individuals dying a second time. You are dreaming. And you have absolutely no scripture stating that Lazarus died a second time. On the contrary, we have scriptures stating that this is not even possible for a resurrected individual to do (Hebrews 9:27 and Luke 20:35-36, and Philippians 3:21 compared with Romans 6:9).

 

[keras]

No, I'm not contradicting scripture. Revelation 20:4 says absolutely nothing about resurrected individuals dying a second time. You are dreaming. And you have absolutely no scripture stating that Lazarus died a second time. On the contrary, we have scriptures stating that this is not even possible for a resurrected individual to do (Hebrews 9:27 and Luke 20:35-36, and Philippians 3:21 compared with Romans 6:9).

So then: Where is Lazarus now?

 

[Diamond7]

So you must be Jewish & a virgin.

This means pure, they have not inner married to have any gentile in them. We see this in the Cohen gene.

 

[3 Resurrections]

So then: Where is Lazarus now?

Lazarus in his glorified resurrected body form as well as the 144,000 First-fruits and anybody else in the same resurrected condition are presently in heaven.

Revelation 15:8 tells us when mankind was first going to be allowed to ascend to heaven's temple - when the seven plagues were finished. Lazarus as well as those others ascended to heaven at that point.

 

[RileyG]

Weren't the 144K Jews, 12K from each tribe?

Yes. My thoughts exactly.

If anything, it’s a symbolic number.

 

[RileyG]

Lazarus in his glorified resurrected body form as well as the 144,000 First-fruits and anybody else in the same resurrected condition are presently in heaven.

Revelation 15:8 tells us when mankind was first going to be allowed to ascend to heaven's temple - when the seven plagues were finished. Lazarus as well as those others ascended to heaven at that point.

He eventually died, though, and he’s awaiting for the resurrection.

 

[3 Resurrections]

He eventually died, though, and he’s awaiting for the resurrection.

That's not true. Lazarus died the one time, after which Jesus raised him from the dead into a glorified, immortal body. "It is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after that the judgment". There is no dying twice physically for anybody at all. People have quite often said that Lazarus and others like him just died again, but they base this on nothing at all found in scripture.

In fact, this idea directly contradicts the scriptures which tell us that the resurrected state of the human body is a permanent condition - never to die again, just like Christ never did or ever will die twice.

 

[RileyG]

That's not true. Lazarus died the one time, after which Jesus raised him from the dead into a glorified, immortal body. "It is appointed unto man ONCE to die, and after that the judgment". There is no dying twice physically for anybody at all. People have quite often said that Lazarus and others like him just died again, but they base this on nothing at all found in scripture.

In fact, this idea directly contradicts the scriptures which tell us that the resurrected state of the human body is a permanent condition - never to die again, just like Christ never did or ever will die twice.

Are you saying he never died again after Jesus raised him from the dead?