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Who among this list is a false teacher

PloverWing

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Recently it has become clear that of the people on that list, John MacArthur is clearly a Nestorian, so I feel compelled to withdraw my endorsement of him.

MacArthur is one of the people on my "disagree fiercely" list, but I wasn't aware that he was Nestorian. To be honest, I didn't realize any modern preachers were revisiting the nature/person question, since I think of this as a) settled doctrine and b) very Greek-philosophy in its approach.

Do you have a sample of his writings or sermons where he takes a Nestorian position?
 
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Blaise N

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I must disagree with you concerning Billy Graham. As a well-churched non-believer I attended a Bible study where it became quite evident to the leader that I was not a believer. He graciously took me aside after one study and shared Billy Graham's gospel tract with me. I was shocked and horrified to discover that all that was required was faith in order to be a Christian. That was far too simple for me. I told the leader that I would never believe that. However, God, the Holy Spirit, graciously humbled me the following day and in the evening I put my complete trust and confidence in Jesus Christ, without any form of works.
Something I’m cautious about with Billy Graham is that I’ve heard he was a Freemason,and that is totally unacceptable when being a Christian.

I don’t know if it’s true,but nevertheless I’m extremely cautious.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Something I’m cautious about with Billy Graham is that I’ve heard he was a Freemason,and that is totally unacceptable when being a Christian.

I don’t know if it’s true,but nevertheless I’m extremely cautious.
I have heard all manner of accusations regarding Billy Graham. I have no reason to suspect him of Freemasonry. One of the more curious accusations was that he was a closet Communist, because he became a puppet of the Soviet Union when he made his famous trip to Russia. As our friend, the Liturgist, has pointed out, there is absolutely no reason to consider Graham to be a Communist, nor, necessarily a Republican or Democrat because he hobnobbed with every President of the United States.
 
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The Liturgist

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MacArthur is one of the people on my "disagree fiercely" list, but I wasn't aware that he was Nestorian. To be honest, I didn't realize any modern preachers were revisiting the nature/person question, since I think of this as a) settled doctrine and b) very Greek-philosophy in its approach.

Do you have a sample of his writings or sermons where he takes a Nestorian position?

You missed a major thread in General Theology where it was openly discussed by several members including if I recall @Xeno.of.athens to the extent that he was Nestorian. And attempts by other members to argue that he was not Nestorian were disproven, if I recall, by our most pious Coptic friend @dzheremi , and I regard the Coptic Orthodox Church and its members as the authorities when it comes to discerning the presence of absence of Nestorianis, since the Coptic Orthodox along with the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria are the heirs to Saints Cyril the Great and Athanasius the Apostolic, who were the fiercest contenders for Christological orthodoxy in antiquity.

Nestorianism is also kind of an insidious heresy because it creeps in when one rejects the phrase “theotokos” out of an unwarranted fear that the idea that the Blessed Virgin Mary is Mother of God might lead to people thinking she gave birth to the Holy Trinity, but as soon as one has committed to such an opinion, one has already divided the humanity of Christ from His divinity, and thrown, however unwittingly, a wrench into the conceptual workings of the doctrine of the Incarnation, since logic requires us to say that since the Logos is God, as per John 1:1-3, and as predicted by St. John the Baptist the Logos became incarnate as a man, the only begotten Son of God, who is consubstantial with the Father (Johh 1:4-18 , John 3:16 , John 10:30, then Reason (Logos in Greek, hence Logic) requires us to say that the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to God in the person of the Son, the incarnate Logos. And when people attempt to deny that it is easy to see how this requires some kind of artificial and unbiblical separation of the humanity from the divinity, which in turn obliterates the doctrine of the Incarnation, ultimately leading to a sort of quasi-adoptionism in which the divine Logos and the man Jesus are two persons in two hypostases in a union of will (thus, it requires also subscription to the heresy of Monothelitism, an oft-overlooked aspect of Nestorianism, in that one cannot be both Nestorian and Dyothelite, or to be more precise, one cannot violate the doctrine of the Third Ecumenical Synod whilst adhering to that of the Sixth. Indeed the doctrines of all subsequent ecumenical councils except the fourth, which I regard as somewhat redundant and unnecessary, since Pope St. Dioscorus had already anathematized Eutyches and was working on cleaning up the problems caused by Eutyches at the failed Second Council of Ephesus, and deposing him was a vindictive act, and Pope Leo was right in desiring the council not to happen but disastrously mistaken in submitting his tome, as it alienated the Oriental Orthodox, particularly those bishops who were not native Greek speakers, but also some who were, by using different terminology than that used by St. Cyril, however, ironically, an Oriental Orthodox theologian, St. Severus of Antioch, ensured that the Chalcedonian churches were able to maintain Christological Orthodoxy by stressing a Theopaschite theology and composing the hymn Ho Monogenes, both of which Emperor Justinian was initially supportive of, to the extent that Ho Monogenes was added to the Eastern Orthodox liturgy as part of the second antiphon (it is the opening hymn in the Syriac Orthodox liturgy and was presumably used in that manner by the Greek Oriental Orthodox of Antioch; it was also a Greek Oriental Orthodox bishop who pioneered including the Nicene Creed in the liturgy itself.
 
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John Mullally

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I can’t handle their form of worship. Even among churches which are not strictly speaking liturgical, I really can’t handle megachurches and their characteristic trappings. In general I am unwilling to attend any church where an electric guitar or drum kit can be found on the premises and where the pastor does not wear vestments (since this is a violation of the canons of the Second Council of Constantinople, an Ecumenical Council held by the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches, and later accepted by the Maronite church, and also a council which on all questions of doctrine the Oriental Orthodox and the Church of the East agreed with, which in 787 AD specifically forbade clergy from wearing fashionable attire and mandated the use of proper vesture during liturgies.
I don't have a problem with the words in the worship songs. Long ago when the Cottonwood was small and intimate, my wife used to play sax in the church band when it was more country and less rock.

There has always been controversy over music. Isaac Watts who wrote some of the most popular hymns was not able to handle the persecution by those who demand only singing out of Psalms.
 
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The Liturgist

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I don't have a problem with the words in the worship songs. Long ago when the Cottonwood was small and intimate, my wife used to play sax in the church band when it was more country and less rock.

There has always been controversy over music. Isaac Watts who wrote some of the most popular hymns was not able to handle the persecution by those who demand only singing out of Psalms.

Isaac Watts actually was composing in a style pioneered by Martin Luther, but rather in his case he simply didn’t have good connections - William Byrd and Thomas Tallis were far more innovative English connections whose settings of the Anglican liturgy was extremely popular in the Chapel Royal, to the extent that Queen Elizabeth overlooked the fact that both men were actually Roman Catholics, which was technically illegal.

But there is a huge difference between the reverent hymns of Watts, Wesley and Luther, and praise and worship music, and that difference boils down to the fact that the music the hymns were set to, the various Chorales, as they are known, which are simple compositions falling four part harmony, and simple tonality, with names separate from the hymns set to them, and by different composers, with the exception of a few recent hymns such as “I Serve A Risen Savior” which in my youth was my favorite Paschal hymn, were composed for use as sacred music, and were not based on contemporary styles of popular music.

What I specifically object to is the taking of popular music, as opposed to classical music, which is unrefined to begin with, and in many cases extremely emotionally manipulative, with the predominant theme of most popular music being sex, with violence also popular with hard rock and heavy metal, and switching out the lyrics to what amount to mostly trite and unedifying nominally Christian lyrics, which lack the rich doctrinal content of both traditional recent hymns and also the exquisite ancient hymns and canticles of the early church, still used by the Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and in traditional Catholic masses (but a disappointing number of Roman Catholic and Maronite Catholic parishes use dreadful praise and worship music, although fortunately the Bishop of Pere Marquette banned it, and introduced a diocesan hymnal, and indeed according to a bull issued by Pope St. Pius X and the acts of the Second Vatican Council, Gregorian Chant should be the predominant form of music in Roman Catholic churches, whereas traditional Maronite Chant, which is closely related to Syriac Orthodox Chant and includes compositions by the likes of St. Ephrem the Syrian, St. Severus of Antioch and more likely than not at least some of the metrical homilies of St. Jacob of Sarugh, as well as other compositions in a similar style).

I would also say that on the whole, A Capella Exclusive Psalmody provides a certain safety, in that it guarantees edification and a lack of heretical music, although the idea that we are only allowed to sing the Psalms according to scripture held by the denominations that practice, who refuse sing other Scriptural Canticles like the three Evangelical canticles from the Gospel According to St. Luke ( the Benedictus, Magnificat and Omni Opera), is erroneous, as St. Paul does not say to sing Psalms exclusively, but rather Psalms, hymns and canticles, and thus if we look at the music used by the church in the fifth century, that gives us a good idea as to the correct meaning. But in Anglicanism, where A Capella Exclusive Psalmody was predominant, there were also the Canticles in Mattins and Evensong, composed by Tallis, Byrd and other excellent English composers, and later still anthems by the likes of Handel, Samuel Sebastian Wesley (a great nephew of John and Charles Wesley) and more recent composers like George Dyson, T. Tertius Noble, Herbert Howells, Healey Willan (also the greatest Canadian composer of classical music), Robert Vaughan Williams, Francis Jackson, who died last year at the age of 104, memory eternal, and several who are still alive including a recent composer whose name I forget, but who shows great promise. So it is not as though we are talking about a dead tradition. In like manner, the traditional music of the Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox churches continues to be enriched as well, by composers such as the Estonian Orthodox maestro Avro Part, who is probably the most distinguished composer of sacred music alive today, and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic composer Roman Hurko, who has composed two settings of the Divine Liturgy and one of Vespers in Church Slavonic, and an additional setting in English, as well as a Pannikhida (Orthodox requiem) for Chernobyl, and a Matins for Good Friday. And those are only two of a great many composers I could mention. Indeed if I were to even try to enumerate all of the very talented church music composers active at present, this post would be 50 pages long.

And what is more, their music is simple; a choir of four can perform Roman Hurko’s settings of the liturgy, and most others, a capella, with no instruments required. But for churches that do have a working organ, there is a wealth of material, ancient and modern, for that as well. And the organ along with certain percussive instruments used in some Middle Eastern churches and in the Ethiopian church, represents the entirety of what I want to hear musically, since it represents the entirety of what is traditionally used in the church, except at certain special liturgies where there might be a full orchestra present.
 
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d taylor

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I must disagree with you concerning Billy Graham. As a well-churched non-believer I attended a Bible study where it became quite evident to the leader that I was not a believer. He graciously took me aside after one study and shared Billy Graham's gospel tract with me. I was shocked and horrified to discover that all that was required was faith in order to be a Christian. That was far too simple for me. I told the leader that I would never believe that. However, God, the Holy Spirit, graciously humbled me the following day and in the evening I put my complete trust and confidence in Jesus Christ, without any form of works.

Billy Graham’s Final Contradiction – Grace Evangelical Society
 
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bbbbbbb

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I see this as typical nitpicking. It is not unlike the accusation which Lutherans endure because they clearly teach and believe in salvation by God's grace through faith alone, yet baptize infants with the complete assurance that God's grace is imparted to the infants in the rite of baptism.

I am neither a Lutheran nor a Grahamite. I merely believe that God used a tract from Billy Graham to drive home to me, a blind sinner, the necessity for trusting Jesus Christ. If you believe that faith (aka commitment) is a work, then you will never have a scintilla of assurance of your salvation.
 
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d taylor

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I see this as typical nitpicking. It is not unlike the accusation which Lutherans endure because they clearly teach and believe in salvation by God's grace through faith alone, yet baptize infants with the complete assurance that God's grace is imparted to the infants in the rite of baptism.

I am neither a Lutheran nor a Grahamite. I merely believe that God used a tract from Billy Graham to drive home to me, a blind sinner, the necessity for trusting Jesus Christ. If you believe that faith (aka commitment) is a work, then you will never have a scintilla of assurance of your salvation.
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I have 100% assurance because i based my assurance on the promise of God. That all who believe in Jesus, receives God's free gift of Eternal Life and not on any commitment i can give to God.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Isaac Watts actually was composing in a style pioneered by Martin Luther, but rather in his case he simply didn’t have good connections - William Byrd and Thomas Tallis were far more innovative English connections whose settings of the Anglican liturgy was extremely popular in the Chapel Royal, to the extent that Queen Elizabeth overlooked the fact that both men were actually Roman Catholics, which was technically illegal.

But there is a huge difference between the reverent hymns of Watts, Wesley and Luther, and praise and worship music, and that difference boils down to the fact that the music the hymns were set to, the various Chorales, as they are known, which are simple compositions falling four part harmony, and simple tonality, with names separate from the hymns set to them, and by different composers, with the exception of a few recent hymns such as “I Serve A Risen Savior” which in my youth was my favorite Paschal hymn, were composed for use as sacred music, and were not based on contemporary styles of popular music.

What I specifically object to is the taking of popular music, as opposed to classical music, which is unrefined to begin with, and in many cases extremely emotionally manipulative, with the predominant theme of most popular music being sex, with violence also popular with hard rock and heavy metal, and switching out the lyrics to what amount to mostly trite and unedifying nominally Christian lyrics, which lack the rich doctrinal content of both traditional recent hymns and also the exquisite ancient hymns and canticles of the early church, still used by the Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans and in traditional Catholic masses (but a disappointing number of Roman Catholic and Maronite Catholic parishes use dreadful praise and worship music, although fortunately the Bishop of Pere Marquette banned it, and introduced a diocesan hymnal, and indeed according to a bull issued by Pope St. Pius X and the acts of the Second Vatican Council, Gregorian Chant should be the predominant form of music in Roman Catholic churches, whereas traditional Maronite Chant, which is closely related to Syriac Orthodox Chant and includes compositions by the likes of St. Ephrem the Syrian, St. Severus of Antioch and more likely than not at least some of the metrical homilies of St. Jacob of Sarugh, as well as other compositions in a similar style).

I would also say that on the whole, A Capella Exclusive Psalmody provides a certain safety, in that it guarantees edification and a lack of heretical music, although the idea that we are only allowed to sing the Psalms according to scripture held by the denominations that practice, who refuse sing other Scriptural Canticles like the three Evangelical canticles from the Gospel According to St. Luke ( the Benedictus, Magnificat and Omni Opera), is erroneous, as St. Paul does not say to sing Psalms exclusively, but rather Psalms, hymns and canticles, and thus if we look at the music used by the church in the fifth century, that gives us a good idea as to the correct meaning. But in Anglicanism, where A Capella Exclusive Psalmody was predominant, there were also the Canticles in Mattins and Evensong, composed by Tallis, Byrd and other excellent English composers, and later still anthems by the likes of Handel, Samuel Sebastian Wesley (a great nephew of John and Charles Wesley) and more recent composers like George Dyson, T. Tertius Noble, Herbert Howells, Healey Willan (also the greatest Canadian composer of classical music), Robert Vaughan Williams, Francis Jackson, who died last year at the age of 104, memory eternal, and several who are still alive including a recent composer whose name I forget, but who shows great promise. So it is not as though we are talking about a dead tradition. In like manner, the traditional music of the Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox churches continues to be enriched as well, by composers such as the Estonian Orthodox maestro Avro Part, who is probably the most distinguished composer of sacred music alive today, and the Ukrainian Greek Catholic composer Roman Hurko, who has composed two settings of the Divine Liturgy and one of Vespers in Church Slavonic, and an additional setting in English, as well as a Pannikhida (Orthodox requiem) for Chernobyl, and a Matins for Good Friday. And those are only two of a great many composers I could mention. Indeed if I were to even try to enumerate all of the very talented church music composers active at present, this post would be 50 pages long.

And what is more, their music is simple; a choir of four can perform Roman Hurko’s settings of the liturgy, and most others, a capella, with no instruments required. But for churches that do have a working organ, there is a wealth of material, ancient and modern, for that as well. And the organ along with certain percussive instruments used in some Middle Eastern churches and in the Ethiopian church, represents the entirety of what I want to hear musically, since it represents the entirety of what is traditionally used in the church, except at certain special liturgies where there might be a full orchestra present.
Thank for the excellent post. My perspective is slightly different, as follows:

1. If the purpose of music in the church service is merely for entertainment, as it is in a vast number of churches of all stripes, then it falls radically short of the biblical standard. Some churches are more obvious about this, having professional musicians to perform for the congregation and others simply rely on ad hoc musicians who perform as a "ministry" for the Lord. Lowell Mason, who is virtually unknown today, effected a radical change in church music following a trip to Germany where he was impressed by the congregational singing. At the time he was the minister of music for the Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church in New York City (which is still in existence - both the church and the city). When he returned he eliminated the professional orchestra, retaining the organist (himself) and the choir, which he posted among the congregation to help encourage congregational worship through singing hymns. He also an extremely gifted and prolific hymn writer.

2. One of the fruits of the Reformation in Europe was the development of congregational singing. The Lutherans became quite famous for their congregational hymns, of which a vast number are quite excellent.

3. Calvinism, which originated in Geneva, Switzerland, took root in Great Britain and established exclusive psalmody, as you noted correctly. The early church did not sing psalms, psalms, and psalms any more than they sang hymns, hymns, and hymns. Sadly, the latter situation seems to be the case in many, especially Protestant, churches today. There is a budding interest in the Psalms with the current generation but, unfortunately, it is virtually never the Psalms that are sung, but a verse or two plucked from a Psalm and repeated ad nauseam. There are several very fine Psalters for congregational singing.

4. The purpose of musical accompaniment in a church service is to accompany the singing, not to dominate it. I had a very brief stint as an organist for a very small Lutheran congregation once which was just beginning. The parting advice from the previous organist to me was to play loud because the congregation liked to sing. At the first service I did play loud, drowning out the congregation. Afterward, one of the men asked me if I liked playing loudly. I told that I did not, but had been advised by the previous organist. The gentleman then told me that they had fired the organist because he did play too loud. After that I accompanied the congregational singing to our mutual edification.
 
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bbbbbbb

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I have 100% assurance because i based my assurance on the promise of God. That all who believe in Jesus, receives God's free gift of Eternal Life and not on any commitment i can give to God.
How do you know for a fact that you will not be among those at the final judgment who will say, "Lord, Lord, did we not . . .?"

They, assuredly, believed in Jesus and had received God's free gift of Eternal Life, did they not? What makes them any different than yourself?
 
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The Liturgist

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Thank for the excellent post. My perspective is slight different, as follows:

1. If the purpose of music in the church service is merely for entertainment, as it is in a vast number of churches of all stripes, then it falls radically short of the biblical standard. Some churches are more obvious about this, having professional musicians to perform for the congregation and others simply rely on ad hoc musicians who perform as a "ministry" for the Lord. Lowell Mason, who is virtually unknown today, effected a radical change in church music following a trip to Germany where he was impressed by the congregational singing. At the time he was the minister of music for the Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church in New York City (which is still in existence - both the church and the city). When he returned he eliminated the professional orchestra, retaining the organist (himself) and the choir, which he posted among the congregation to help encourage congregational worship through singing hymns. He also an extremely gifted and prolific hymn writer.

2. One of the fruits of the Reformation in Europe was the development of congregational singing. The Lutherans became quite famous for their congregational hymns, of which a vast number are quite excellent.

3. Calvinism, which originated in Geneva, Switzerland, took root in Great Britain and established exclusive psalmody, as you noted correctly. The early church did not sing psalms, psalms, and psalms any more than they sang hymns, hymns, and hymns. Sadly, the latter situation seems to be the case in many, especially Protestant, churches today. There is a budding interest in the Psalms with the current generation but, unfortunately, it is virtually never the Psalms that are sung, but a verse or two plucked from a Psalm and repeated ad nauseam. There are several very fine Psalters for congregational singing.

4. The purpose of musical accompaniment in a church service is to accompany the singing, not to dominate it. I had a very brief stint as an organist for a very small Lutheran congregation once which was just beginning. The parting advice from the previous organist to me was to play loud because the congregation liked to sing. At the first service I did play loud, drowning out the congregation. Afterward, one of the men asked me if I liked playing loudly. I told that I did not, but had been advised by the previous organist. The gentleman then told me that they had fired the organist because he did play too loud. After that I accompanied the congregational singing to our mutual edification.

In general I agree with your points, although I do think having trained choirs is also of benefit, with a mix of congregational hymns and anthems and canticles as one sees in traditional Anglican churches. This is because many people feel called to sing as a vocation to God and will volunteer to do so.

By the way, congregational singing did predate the Reformation, but the Reformation brought it back in Western Europe. In the Church of the East, much of the Oriental Orthodox Church, and among the Russian Old Believers and Old Rite Orthodox, congregational singing is de rigeur, several hymns in East Syriac Chant, West Syriac Chant, Coptic Chant, known as Tasbeha, and the ancient Church Slavonic system of Znamenny Chant lending themselves to congregational singing. Also the Carpatho-Rusyns, also known as Ruthenians, who include an ethnic subgroup known as the Lemkos, who were historically Orthodox until compelled to enter into communion with the Pope while retaining the Byzantine Rite liturgy under the Treaty of Brest, as they lived primarily within the borders of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, have an ancient system of Church Slavonic congregational singing called Prostopinije, which unlike Znamenny Chant has taken on attributes such as four part harmony and tonality, and if I recall, some of the more interesting and unusual hymns unique to the Moravians are related to Prostopinije, as there are Rusyns among the population of Czechia and Slovakia, and indeed St. Jan Hus and St. Jerome of Prague are venerated as martyrs by the Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia.

I particularly agree with your fourth point, in that it is extremely annoying when the organ overpowers the people and the choir.

Also, one of my objections to praise and worship music and the sort of rock concerts held by “Worship Teams” at evangelical and non-denominational churches such as megachurches, is that it tends to be incompatible with congregational singing.

Also some people seem to think that dancing to it is worship, which I find strange, since from my Orthodox perspective worship consists of the adoration of God and the celebration of his sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist, which we regard as a bloodless and rational sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving that is an anamnesis, or recapitulation, or to be precise, a participation in, the Theophany and the Last Supper, since these are the instances of Baptism and Holy Communion in which we actually participate (this view is commonly held by Anglicans and some Lutherans, although some Lutherans will deny that the Eucharist is in any sense a mutual sacrifice where we offer bread and wine to God who then changes them into the actual body and blood of Christ our true God through the action of the Holy Spirit, allowing us to participate in Holy Communion with Christ and His Disciples and all Christians since that time.
 
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returntosender

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Hi everyone,

I’d like to ask the community a theological question.So I remember in scripture it speaks of apostasy in two different ways,it speaks of the variant where someone abandons faith and the other is falling away into believing false teachers,gospels,and pastors

Now for awhile now I’ve read advice from many sources,but I occasionally come across some accusing others of false teachings and what not.Some calling out others on their teachings.My main concern and worry is that I may have committed apostasy by accepting advice from a false teacher.and my concern is can someone who previously followed a false teacher repent? Here is a list of people in question:

-John MacArthur
-John Piper
-RC Sproul
-Billy Graham
-James Dobson
-David Jeremiah


Could someone help?
None of us should be able to say unless we can prove it. That's to serious a judgment. We can think it but we shouldn't smear another.
 
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The Liturgist

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None of us should be able to say unless we can prove it. That's to serious a judgment. We can think it but we shouldn't smear another.

We actually can prove if someone is a false teacher by comparing the doctrines they teach to the doctrinal definitions of the Early Church, primarily by seeing if they teach anything the Early Church found to be contrary to scripture and thus heretical, for example, Arianism (denying that Jesus Christ is God), Nestorianism (dividing the humanity and divinity of our Lord), Monophysitism or Eutychianism (saying that the humanity of our Lord has dissolved or comingled with His divinity into a hybrid nature which is neither fully divine nor fully human, which by the way, contrary to popular belief, is not the doctrine of the Oriental Orthodox churches, and never has been), Monothelitism (denying that Jesus Christ has both a human will and a divine will), Gnosticism (salvation by secret knowledge, emanationism, and also usually Marcionism, which is the belief that the God of the Old Testament is different from God the Father of Jesus Christ in the New Testament), Iconoclasm (the belief that all iconography violates the 2nd commandment prohibition against idolatry regardless of whether or not people actually worship it, and therefore that iconography must be destroyed), Pelagianism (the belief that humans must save themselves and God has only shown us how to do this, but does not actively participate in our salvation), and several other heresies.

It is on the basis of teaching these heresies that the early church anathematized Arius, Nestorius, Macedonius, Eutyches, Apollinarius, and several other notorious heretics, in accordance with the instruction given to us by the Holy Apostle Paul in Galatians 1:8-9. Indeed based on Galatians 1:8-9 and related Pauline instructions, such as “test every spirit”, we are actually obliged to watch for wolves in sheep’s clothing who teach false doctrine. And it is not a smear if someone who is a pastor of a church intentionally teaches a false doctrine anathematized by the early church as heresy, since it is widely known what the doctrines were that were anathematized by the early church and it is not difficult to comply with them, especially for a pastor who presumably has some training and credentials, such as an MDiv from a major seminary, or hands-on training from a mentor, or a degree from a Bible College, etc.
 
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d taylor

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How do you know for a fact that you will not be among those at the final judgment who will say, "Lord, Lord, did we not . . .?"

They, assuredly, believed in Jesus and had received God's free gift of Eternal Life, did they not? What makes them any different than yourself?

It is amazing how many read into The Bible their own beliefs and do not see what the verse are actually saying.
The verses you reference in your post, plainly state, Jesus says He never knew them (‘I never knew you;) these people never believed in Jesus.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

How do i know for a fact, read this verse in John, do you think it is a lie. The verse states the believer crosses over from death to life at the moment of belief and will not come into judgment.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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It is amazing how many read into The Bible their own beliefs and do not see what the verse are actually saying.
The verses you reference in your post, plainly state, Jesus says He never knew them (‘I never knew you;) these people never believed in Jesus.

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

How do i know for a fact, read this verse in John, do you think it is a lie. The verse states the believer crosses over from death to life at the moment of belief and will not come into judgment.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
A few more scripture to consider….

In regards to how Jesus knows us…

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Jesus says its not just those who say Lord Lord (believers) but those who do His will shall enter the kingdom of heaven Mat 7:21 and He says those who practice lawlessness will not be in His kingdom, Mat 7:23 so our faith has to have legs, our obedience to Him demonstrates our faith. Romans 3:31

More scriptures to consider…regarding God’s will…

Psalms 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

And lets bring this concept to the NT

Romans 2:18. and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law

One of the last verses of the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 sin is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 and we are called to be doers of His Word James 1:22
 
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d taylor

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A few more scripture to consider….

In regards to how Jesus knows us…

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Jesus says its not just those who say Lord Lord (believers) but those who do His will shall enter the kingdom of heaven Mat 7:21 and He says those who practice lawlessness will not be in His kingdom, Mat 7:23 so our faith has to have legs, our obedience to Him demonstrates our faith. Romans 3:31

More scriptures to consider…regarding God’s will…

Psalms 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart.”

And lets bring this concept to the NT

Romans 2:18. and know His will, and approve the things that are excellent, being instructed out of the law

One of the last verses of the Bible before the Revelation of Jesus Christ

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 sin is breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 and we are called to be doers of His Word James 1:22
-
That commandment ladder does not reach heaven!
 
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SabbathBlessings

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That commandment ladder does not reach heaven!
Your words, not the Words of Jesus revealed to John.


Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city compare that to the next verse 15 (commandment breakers)

Our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21, not in sin.

We are saved by grace through faith and those with faith hear His voice and follow Him and does the things He asks of us though faith and love. Rom 3:31 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 Exo 20:6 Rev14:12 When we hear His Word and not do it, we just deceive ourselves James 1:22 Faith is not passive, but a call to action, so is belief. How do you believe Him, but not enough to believe the things He asks: If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 It always surprises me this is even something to debate. Lucifer fell from heaven because he wanted to exalt himself over God breaking commandment #1 and its silly to think we can follow the same example of Lucifer and lawbreaking and be in heaven, Rev 22:14-15 Mat 7:21-23 flat out tells us this is not so. It’s not to say if we stumble and fall we don’t have an Advocate in Jesus Christ who is faithful to cleanse us of all unrighteousness 1 John 1:9 if we repent and turn away from sin but if we perpetually live with sin without trying to overcome we are told there remains no more sacrifice. Heb 10:26-30
 
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Ephesians321

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Hi everyone,

I’d like to ask the community a theological question.So I remember in scripture it speaks of apostasy in two different ways,it speaks of the variant where someone abandons faith and the other is falling away into believing false teachers,gospels,and pastors

Now for awhile now I’ve read advice from many sources,but I occasionally come across some accusing others of false teachings and what not.Some calling out others on their teachings.My main concern and worry is that I may have committed apostasy by accepting advice from a false teacher.and my concern is can someone who previously followed a false teacher repent? Here is a list of people in question:

-John MacArthur
-John Piper
-RC Sproul
-Billy Graham
-James Dobson
-David Jeremiah


Could someone help?
I follow none of them R.C. Sproul is reformed which follows Calvinism. David Jeremiah is alittle too obsessed about Rapture which I consider a false doctine. Actually, I would follow none of them. Pray over and seek a local ministry.
 
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