White Posters Only- Do you see the problem of racism against black people as...

  • 1. The fault of white people everywhere, including yourself, either consciously or unconsciously

  • 2. The fault of other white people, you make mistakes, but you don't really hold any racist views

  • 3. The fault of everyone regardless of race. We are all racist sometimes.


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2PhiloVoid

Of course, it's all ...about the Son!
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You're forgiven. You've been on here long enough to know that Christians don't necessarily agree on the meaning of scripture. They certainly aren't going to agree on which political causes deserve their time and support.
Yeah. Sure. And why is that, do ya think? Could it be that human beings aren't omnipotent and that the Bible isn't comprehensive on all that it touts? Why would we expect Christians to agree on 'EVERYTHING'? I don't expect that and I never have, and I'm always flabbergasted to find that folks of all kinds are flabbergasted by the fact that various human beings who claim to be Christian don't agree on everything.

So.........my point? My point is: So what if Christians don't agree on everything, whether biblical or political?!

I'm not only saying that you don't get to determine which causes are worthwhile for others....you also don't get to determine which causes are "Christian".

Au Contraire !!! I kind of do ... and I defy you to prove that biblically speaking there is absolutely nothing that I get to determine to be necessary social causes of every single Christian who has ever lived or ever will live.

And why might I say that, do ya think? :eheh:
 
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2PhiloVoid

Of course, it's all ...about the Son!
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Those are empirical truths.



I certainly agree with that.

Just because someone has a "Christian" marker here on CF doesn't mean that they speak for me, and that applies to theological, political, scientific, and artistic questions.

I've about had enough of your pokes, prods and jabs here and there, brother Radagast! Time to stop doing that ... ! Time's up, bro!
 
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2PhiloVoid

Of course, it's all ...about the Son!
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Justice is relative to both time and place.
** cough ** Can you make any statements more relative than that one, Ana?

As for equality....it depends upon what you mean by equality. We have equality under the law.
Well, goodie! As for Christians, we have equality UNDER JESUS CHRIST! ;) And for those Christian claimants who refuse to recognize equality with fellow Christians in Christ, we also have an eternal fire. ;)
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Race wasn't a concept back then....so I think it's pretty safe to say it's not implied either.
Lol! I'm sorry again, but I do have to chuckle at that. It most definitely IS implied !

Sure. They didn't have today's concepts of "race" in their pea-pick'n brains two thousand years ago. But so what? That doesn't mean they didn't still have "ethnic" tensions between various people groups, tensions which contributed to their own contemporary sets of political and cultural problems. Of course, you knew that already, right? But you just had to go ahead and say what you said in your previous post anyway, right? No................I think you're smarter than that, but you just want to play 'dumb.'

Chalmers, Matthew J. "Representations of Samaritans in Late Antique Jewish and Christian Texts." (2019).

The Good Samaritan Is A Story About Race
 
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bèlla

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As time passed though....these same terms were applied to any poc who acted "too white"....which really just narrowed the idea of what a black person could be.

I grew up with that and my daughter experienced the same. There is little tolerance for difference. That applies to behaviors and aesthetics. It becomes a point of contention or judgment because you're coloring outside the lines. The assumption of sameness is great. I must have certain experiences because every one else does.

I realized the necessity of being in similar company at a young age. I didn't have to explain myself or hear snide remarks about my experiences or possessions. It grew tiresome after a while. I was dealing with a financial and cultural backlash. I couldn't articulate it in that manner. But I understood the problem.

The original usages have value though....because there's a lot of white people who appeal to the racist beliefs of black people to the detriment of white people....and we have no term to shame them for this.

I didn't grow up in a race saturated environment. Difficulties weren't blamed on the color of our skin. I didn't hear that at all. My experiences with Caucasians are positive. The majority of my friends are white as are my companions. Most of the women in our business network are as well. We're a tight knit group.

I don't have a boogeyman looming overhead trying to do me in. I'm aware problems exist. But I don't believe in painting a group as evil or predatory. That isn't true on either side. I'm not looking for an apology or reparations. I wasn't in chains. I've benefited from the sacrifices and efforts of my forefathers. I'm looking ahead not behind.

Change is implemented one relationship at a time. All the laws in the world won't make someone extend their hand if they're not compelled to do so on their own. You can't legalize respect or acceptance. That comes from within.

~Bella
 
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childeye 2

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I don't think it's racist....but I'm definitely interested in why you believe it is.

Israel announced plans to annex parts of the West Bank. Let's say that I'm interested in finding out what Israeli Jews think about these plans...so I set up a survey asking them what they think about the annexation plans.

If I don't express that I only want Israeli jews to answer the survey....there's a good chance that Palestinians and other Arabs will answer.

If that happens....I won't find out what the Israeli Jews think about the annexation plans, which was the whole point of the survey.

Surveys and polls do this sort of thing all the time.

To be clear, I said that your poll is racist in it's premise. So is any poll that breaks down opinion demographically according to race. You may not think it is, along with others, and I can understand why that is.

But please consider, "Race" generally refers to physical characteristics people share in common, while ethnicity is more about language, culture, country of origin. In times past "Race" used to mean speaking a different language believe it or not, but that became problematic since for example, the "Human race" speaks different languages. The term race is therefore an unstable term without some substantial qualification. Wherefore the Supreme court ruled that race should not be used as a demographic to classify people, because it is racist in it's premise as if people who all share a dark skin represent the same cultural view.

The example of a poll concerning what Israeli Jews think would be based on ethnicity not race. Since your poll is about racism, it makes sense to me that you would want to know what white people think, but it's still racist because it assumes white people would see things differently than black people based on the color of their skin. The term racism is therefore unstable in it's definition because the term race is unstable.

Some people disagree about the definition of racism. Some people believe that only white people are racist. The first two options address this belief....the third is for those who disagree.
I thought it was rather clear. We all occasionally prejudge others based upon race, whether consciously or unconsciously.
There is a problem with the poll precisely because people disagree with what racism means and how to qualify the negative aspect of racism. It's therefore not clear that the third choice is for people who disagree that only white people are racist, (implying black people are too). It depends on how one defines race, racist and racism, and how they qualify the negative aspect of it.

For example when the issue is seen in the negative as an ongoing struggle for equality traced back to Americas history of slavery based on racism, then of course under those circumstances, people would count racism as being a problem only white people would have, that wasn't a problem for blacks since it was black people who were slaves. Others might even portray it as a problem for blacks because they were the slaves.

This summation of it being traced back to slavery however is not necessarily at odds with the caveat that not all white people were for slavery, only that black people certainly were not for slavery because they were the slaves. And it's not qualified as to whether blacks or some blacks would be for slavery if they were the masters. Are we talking about the wrongs of racism or the wrongs of slavery/subjugation no matter what color? Notice if I had said no matter what "race", it would automatically suggest to the mind that race is not about physical appearance but about ethnicity. Wherefore I chose the word "color".

You then might say that these people could choose the option of some white people are racist, but there is no qualification in that answer indicating that black people could be just as susceptible to racism. You complicate this further by indicating in your OP that you believe that BLM is all about blaming whites for being white, while specifically saying the poll is to be understood as about racism against blacks, not against whites.

My point is that this is all lost in semantics, and much of what we are debating is created by semantical confusion which then leads to misunderstanding. Sorry for the long post.
 
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Tone

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the Supreme court ruled that race should not be used as a demographic to classify people, because it is racist in it's premise as if people who all share a dark skin represent the same cultural view.


That's why I always decline to say or mark "other" when I come across those dumb polls.
 
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childeye 2

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That's why I always decline to say or mark "other" when I come across those dumb polls.
I even struggle with ethnicity being a reasonable demographic to classify individual opinions. If genealogical composition is not a factor, then why ask?
 
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Tone

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I even struggle with ethnicity being a reasonable demographic to classify individual opinions. If genealogical makeup is not a factor, then why ask?



They should add another box that just says, "New Creature".
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I have only heard it growing up in a black urban community by black people.
I'm quite possibly the whitest white boy ever. I definitely heard "snitches get stitches" growing up.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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I'm quite possibly the whitest white boy ever. I definitely heard "snitches get stitches" growing up.
Well, aren't you going to bend the knee before me and and swear your fealty as you apologize for your privilege? Kneel as you kiss my signant ring. Just joking.

Edit: In all seriousness. Please. Do not apologize for you being white.
 
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Ana the Ist

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** cough ** Can you make any statements more relative than that one, Ana?

There are places where thieves have their hands cut off...and that's considered justice.

My guess is that you don't see it that way.

Well, goodie! As for Christians, we have equality UNDER JESUS CHRIST! ;)

Ok.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Lol! I'm sorry again, but I do have to chuckle at that. It most definitely IS implied !

Sure. They didn't have today's concepts of "race" in their pea-pick'n brains two thousand years ago. But so what? That doesn't mean they didn't still have "ethnic" tensions between various people groups, tensions which contributed to their own contemporary sets of political and cultural problems. Of course, you knew that already, right? But you just had to go ahead and say what you said in your previous post anyway, right? No................I think you're smarter than that, but you just want to play 'dumb.'

Chalmers, Matthew J. "Representations of Samaritans in Late Antique Jewish and Christian Texts." (2019).

The Good Samaritan Is A Story About Race

If you want to claim racial divisions are no different than other divisions....I'm fine with that.

It runs contrary to the idea that racism is a problem of importance, but if that's your position, so be it.
 
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