white lives also matter -- by the way

[Kenny'sID]

It is a requirement for them to use their body cams by their state law, but I am curious if they don't have to turn them on until they step out of the car. Doesn't explain on the car having it off too though.

From what I could gather the body cams are supposed to be on before they "do" just about anything, or react to any complaint or whatever. IOW any action and the reporter said nothing about being out of the car.

They also said the shooter "reached over" his partener (a thought out action) and "opened fire" on the lady.

I understand where some people like to blame the cops and It's good to wait for all the info but this looks real bad.

I wonder who the witnesses were? I mean who is telling what happened? The/those police? Another witness? Is there substantial voice recording?

Good to see they are forcing the cams..that's a step in the right direction. Now they need to fire anyone who doesn't turn theirs on before something like this to send a message. They do no good if not on.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I wonder who the witnesses were? I mean who is telling what happened? The/those police? Another witness? Is there substantial voice recording?

The articles I read said there weren't any witnesses. They found a bullet hole in the door and she was hit in the abdomen.

I'm wondering where in the abdomen, if they called 911 and how fast was the response? It's not always an instant death from my understanding.

There weren't voice recordings, I think they're just looking at the positioning of the bullet in the door. They have been very mum so far.

 

[RDKirk]

It raises the question that, if this really was an honest accident, what should be done? I'd feel bad sending someone to prison for an accident, but on the other hand a woman's life has been lost.

It couldn't be an "honest accident" for anyone who has received any kind of firearms training that I've ever heard of in America. Two universal lessons taught:

1. Don't draw unless prepared to shoot
2. Don't place your finger into the trigger guard until the muzzle is lined up on the person you're preparing to shoot (that is to say, pointed in the intended direction)

If the person has broken either of those lessons, "honest accident" is obviated. You're even beyond "negligent" into the area of "reckless."

 

[Kenny'sID]

There weren't voice recordings, I think they're just looking at the positioning of the bullet in the door. They have been very mum so far.

Thanks, not a lot to go on..

It's not always an instant death from my understanding.

Mine too. I've seen enough of cops walking around a bleeding body, and offering no assistance, that this worries me. Hate to say it, and even more so, I hate having reason to say it could happen, but it would be naive of me to not consider if they did shoot this woman in cold blood, it would be only to their advantage to just let her die/bleed to death.

I guess they can tell if she bled to death or if it was something else.

I saw something about her cell phone being found nearby, so I assume she had it in here hand and the best I can figure, at least at this point, if that is a fact, the cop thought it was gun, and will claim self defense. But makes no sense they wouldn't have used a flashlight as she approached.

Wish I could say we'll find out soon enough but we may never know the truth.

 

[JCFantasy23]

We have an update

"An Australian woman who called 911 to report a possible assault was shot and killed by a Minneapolis police officer after the officer's partner was startled by a loud sound near their squad car, the partner told investigators Tuesday.

The Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension said Justine Damond, 40, approached the driver's side window of the squad car immediately after the driver had been startled by the sound. The officer in the passenger seat, Mohamed Noor, fired his weapon, hitting Damond through the open driver's side window, the BCA said."

Officials: Australian woman shot after cops heard loud sound

 

[ripple the car]

Many things don't make sense. Why in the world reach across your partner with your already-drawn weapon while still in the vehicle? I am utterly sick of hearing "they thought he / she had a gun" every time a victim of police excess or foolishness is holding a wallet, cell phone, beeper, or cheese burger within sight of an armed cop.

Either training for police officers in the United States needs a massive, massive over-haul, or that is simply the favorite excuse of officers with an unnecessary body to take the fall for.

I am not saying the police have a safe, easy, or fun job. But this is just insane.

 

[W Johnson]

Minneapolis police fatally shot Australian woman after hearing ‘loud sound,’ investigators say


“State investigators on Tuesday identified the officer who shot Damond as Mohamed Noor, who joined the department in 2015, and said the officer driving was Matthew Harrity, who joined the force last year. Both officers were placed on standard administrative leave after the shooting.”


The Officer that fired the shots has two years on the force and several complaints against him in those two years with a lawsuit filed against him the day before the shooting.

The Officer that was the driver has one year on the force.


Why were two rookie Officers sent out, one with an apparent ability to attract complaints? Why was there not a senior or more experienced Officer present?

 

[381465]

Minneapolis police fatally shot Australian woman after hearing ‘loud sound,’ investigators say


“State investigators on Tuesday identified the officer who shot Damond as Mohamed Noor, who joined the department in 2015, and said the officer driving was Matthew Harrity, who joined the force last year. Both officers were placed on standard administrative leave after the shooting.”


The Officer that fired the shots has two years on the force and several complaints against him in those two years with a lawsuit filed against him the day before the shooting.

The Officer that was the driver has one year on the force.


Why were two rookie Officers sent out, one with an apparent ability to attract complaints? Why was there not a senior or more experienced Officer present?

This latest update smells like a poor excuse for an over zealous cop.
Drawing a weapon from holster while seated in a car is not easy.
I want to know when the handgun was drawn and why.
Define loud noise. Dumpster being emptied vs gunfire vs ?
As far as complaints against the cop...common. It was common place 20 years ago and has gotten worse.
Some have merit, many do not.
The 2 weren't very experienced. Every department has different standards, but most have ride alongs while in academy then 6 months with training officer followed by 9 to 12 months of supervised probation.
There is a sizeable shortage of officers in my area. People aren't lining up to be cops.
This, unfortunately, might mean relaxed vetting and less effective training.

 

[JCFantasy23]

am utterly sick of hearing "they thought he / she had a gun" every time a victim of police excess or foolishness is holding a wallet, cell phone, beeper, or cheese burger within sight of an armed cop.

I remember when a teen boy was shot and killed over having a wii remote in his hand, which is white and looks nothing like a gun!

 

[JCFantasy23]

Yes it sounds like two inexperienced cops who got very spooked. I'm not sure what the loud noise is supposed to be either - thinks can echo in certain alleys, but they should be trained for that sort of thing I'd think.

 

[RDKirk]

Looks like they're going to go with my post #22.

"I was in fear of my life" is their get-out-of-jail-free card in every circumstance.

 

[381465]

Claims fireworks in what looks like suburban area.
The described noise would get more attention, but something still indicates too eager to shoot.
Would like to know crime rate and recent incidents in area leading to this.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Either training for police officers in the United States needs a massive, massive over-haul, or that is simply the favorite excuse of officers with an unnecessary body to take the fall for.

I am not saying the police have a safe, easy, or fun job. But this is just insane.

Agree, something has to be done, and I have to wonder if a lot of this is a problem with the screening process. I've seen some level headed good cops and some real nut jobs on the force as well, that seem to exhibit red flags, and should not have been hired to begin with.

As I indicated on a similar thread, either they aren't doing enough in hiring these people, or there is only so much they can do. Or it could mostly be the training, or a bit of both, but there are some things we cannot train out of people.

Maybe it's just me, but is seems like I've all too often seen cops walking around an injured body with a general "who cares?" attitude, like it doesn't bother them at all. they offer no help and show little, if any concern. So who knows how that attitude plays into the guy getting shot in the first place.

Just some thoughts.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Sounds completely made up to me, and so unbelievable it seems it's a possible desperate attempt to hide something real bad.

It is bizarre but it sort of makes sense to me. It would explain why he suddenly felt he needed to fire by his partner in such close range from the car. The problem is they shouldn't have been that spooked in the first place as police officers. They were being called out for a potential sexual crime, not an armed robbery in pursuit. The neighborhood is upper class according to the article. Police - I thought - are supposed to make sure who they shoot before shooting. Wonder if he was on any type of drug?

 

[Kenny'sID]

It is bizarre but it sort of makes sense to me. It would explain why he suddenly felt he needed to fire by his partner in such close range from the car.

Somehow the conclusion was drawn he had time to reach over his partner, so, and only if that is a fact, it could make one question the surprise factor.

The problem is they shouldn't have been that spooked in the first place as police officers.

Agree, and maybe they were, but that's a bit suspicious, at the very least.

 

[RDKirk]

Somehow the conclusion was drawn he had time to reach over his partner, so, and only if that is a fact, it could make one question the surprise factor.



Agree, and maybe they were, but that's a bit suspicious, at the very least.

Were they spooked by a noise and then he shot at an object just because it was approaching their vehicle? The best that can be made of this is that he drew and fired without the slightest ID of his target.

For me, that would draw a charge of "reckless endangerment" and "manslaughter." Ooops, wait. I'm black. When the police showed up...dead blonde woman on the ground, me with a gun....nope, I wouldn't even get a chance to be charged.

But he'll just say, "I was in fear for my life" and walk away.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Were they spooked by a noise and then he shot at an object just because it was approaching their vehicle? The best that can be made of this is that he drew and fired without the slightest ID of his target.

the very best.

For me, that would draw a charge of "reckless endangerment" and "manslaughter."

At least that.

When the police showed up...dead blonde woman on the ground, me with a gun....nope, I wouldn't even get a chance to be charged.

Unfortunately, you may well be right.

 

[ripple the car]

This may be a massive stretch... The woman who was shot reported what she believed to be an assault / rape going on near her home. Could the officer who killed her have known the attacker involved in the assault and been, in some weird and awful way, covering for him?

 

[ripple the car]

You don't arrive at a scene with all your cameras off and your weapon already drawn and ready to fire. I'm just saying.

 

[Dave-W]

From what I could gather the body cams are supposed to be on before they "do" just about anything, or react to any complaint or whatever. IOW any action and the reporter said nothing about being out of the car.

The office of the police force said both officers had not been thru the mandatory training on use of body cams yet - that they were scheduled for sometime in August. Also - some of the officers had not even been given body cams yet. Which means both officers were fairly new to cams.

They also said the shooter "reached over" his partner (a thought out action) and "opened fire" on the lady.

There were only 3 people who would know a detail like that. One is dead and the other 2 are not talking (so far). So where did that tidbit come from? Made up by the media?