"while" He may be found....

[Heber Book List]

Just because I don't know the number doesn't mean by context I know the number is finite.

And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Revelation 6:11-12


And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Daniel 11:31-35

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21

​

You said it was a 'certain number' - I asked what number and do you have any scripture that says it. In other words, from what you say now, you first post should not have that bit in it.

 

[Kaon]

You said it was a 'certain number' - I asked what number and do you have any scripture that says it. In other words, from what you say now, you first post should not have that bit in it.

Oh, Ok. Opinion noted; I say exactly what I mean.

 

[chunkofcoal]

Well, if you don't know the specific number how can it be a specific number? Can you point to anything in scripture that tells you about this?

There is a bit in the Book of Enoch where the "shepherds" kill more of the "sheep" than God commands them to, so that would mean there is a particular number, though we don't know what it is.

 

[Heber Book List]

I simply wanted to know where, in the Bible, the 'certain number' by 'G_d's election' (predetermined) could be found - I had not come across it before, or if I had, I had forgotten. The only people who hold to this concept, as far as I know, are the JW's and the Mormons.

BTW The book of Enoch is not in the Bible

 

[Kaon]

There is a bit in the Book of Enoch where the "shepherds" kill more of the "sheep" than God commands them to, so that would mean there is a particular number, though we don't know what it is.

I didn't want to go into ENOCH and gnostics, but yes there are several verses that explicitly state that the number is finite.

The number, however, is not listed. Most witnesses that see those saved see a "multitude". These people weren't dumb; we base our algebra and geometry off of what they already knew. So, a "multitude" is comparable to a "multitude" of today - which is why I said in the "hundreds of billions" if we had to have a number.

I also said hundreds of billions (not trillions) to account for the people before Christ up to now, and because the number is finite.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

At His 2nd coming, All have the opportunity to receive Him as their Savior until then.

Psalm 14

The LORD looks down from heaven on the children of man, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God.

This is how i understood it as well.

 

[visionary]

When ever knee shall bow.... at His coming, which isn't when He can not be found.

 

[chunkofcoal]

I simply wanted to know where, in the Bible, the 'certain number' by 'G_d's election' (predetermined) could be found - I had not come across it before, or if I had, I had forgotten. The only people who hold to this concept, as far as I know, are the JW's and the Mormons.

BTW The book of Enoch is not in the Bible

But there are quotes from it in the Bible.

 

[Heber Book List]

But there are quotes from it in the Bible.

With respect, that is not what I asked Kaon to provide, I referred to specific detail relating to G_d's 'predetermined decision that a certain number will be killed', in the Bible.

I have already posted my reason for asking in post #24

 

[chunkofcoal]

With respect, that is not what I asked Kaon to provide, I referred to specific detail relating to G_d's 'predetermined decision that a certain number will be killed', in the Bible.

I have already posted my reason for asking in post #24

Ok. I will butt out.

 

[Hoshiyya]

"While he may be found" refers to when Yeshua walked the earth, and calls to mind the Gospel of John chapter 1.

Isaiah 55 overall has a very clearly Messianic vibe similar to Yeshua's invitation to his listeners:

Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters;
and you who have no money, come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost.
Why spend money on what is not bread, and your labor on what does not satisfy?
Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good, and you will delight in the richest of fare.
Give ear and come to me; listen, that you may live. (Isaiah 55:1-3)

While there is such a thing as judgment, there is no "window of salvation" ever inching towards closing.

Incidentally, such a time-limit would be unfair to people born just before the 2nd coming (assuming that is "when the window closes") in that they would have less opportunity (time) to turn to God than others, or even no opportunity.

In the eons to come, millions of people who never even heard about the Biblical God in their first life will turn to him.

 

[Kaon]

With respect, that is not what I asked Kaon to provide, I referred to specific detail relating to G_d's 'predetermined decision that a certain number will be killed', in the Bible.

I have already posted my reason for asking in post #24

A number can be finite without actually knowing that number; that is algebra.

If the number of people that get into heaven is x, we know the number is finite if it is bounded.

The canon, apocrypha and Gnostics all give the details of the boundary conditions. I never said I knew the number, that would be ridiculous. I said that the number is finite - it is a set number bounded by conditions and coordination.

 

[visionary]

I simply wanted to know where, in the Bible, the 'certain number' by 'G_d's election' (predetermined) could be found - I had not come across it before, or if I had, I had forgotten. The only people who hold to this concept, as far as I know, are the JW's and the Mormons.

BTW The book of Enoch is not in the Bible

N0 excuse

 

[JohnC2]

Jesus teaches many parables if entering while the door is open. For example - the parable of the foolish virgins... They were foolish not because they didn’t have any oil - but because they should have known that the missing oil was the bridegroom’s responsibility - and that their being married to the bridegroom was predicated on them going with the groom that night....

He teaches of those who are cast out of the kingdom after being called and not answering. Several times in fact - and the moral always ends with people crying “Lord Lord” and being cast out...

We see this in Numbers 14 as well... It did not matter how much the people wanted to enter into the land the next day - the door was shut and God’s word against them had gone out.

It’s the same with the seige of Jerusalem.... They were told to flee and didn’t.... and then it was too late.

 

[Hoshiyya]

Jesus teaches many parables if entering while the door is open. For example - the parable of the foolish virgins... They were foolish not because they didn’t have any oil - but because they should have known that the missing oil was the bridegroom’s responsibility - and that their being married to the bridegroom was predicated on them going with the groom that night....

He teaches of those who are cast out of the kingdom after being called and not answering. Several times in fact - and the moral always ends with people crying “Lord Lord” and being cast out...

We see this in Numbers 14 as well... It did not matter how much the people wanted to enter into the land the next day - the door was shut and God’s word against them had gone out.

It’s the same with the seige of Jerusalem.... They were told to flee and didn’t.... and then it was too late.

The only reason God ever punishes is to bring people to repentance.

Bacteria can slay millions, but will suffer no punishment from God because they don't have a standard to live up to or any salvation to hope for.

You give your son a time-out for a reason, to teach him something, not for the sake of satisfying your own sadism.

Again it is obvious that an arbitrary time-limit serves no logical or holy function. Some people turn to God in their 40's, or in their 80's. Now let's say "the end" came while you're 39, or 79, and if given more time you could have turned. Then the Sadist (version of) God will chuckle to himself, "Too bad, eh ?"