While ANGER sleeps ?

[PsychoSarah]

Anger is a condition of the mind, chemistry in your brain. And yes, it does hurt, though it is a completely natural emotion that is necessary to be a functional human being. If we felt no anger, we would not react accordingly to injustices. It can be a cushion against fear that would otherwise overtake us. As much as we might dislike it, our negative emotions are just as important if not more important aspects of the human condition than positive emotions.

It is also needed to keep chemical balance in the brain. No matter how much we might like being happy, our brain simply can't maintain that emotion indefinitely, because the chemical connections that function to produce it wear out. This is actually, perhaps, most noticeable with sadness in a person without chronic depression; you can only be so sad for so long before the feeling fades. The emotion can certainly come back later, but there is only so long any emotional response beyond what is the norm for you can keep going before your mind returns to chemical equilibrium.

That is, of course, unless there is something wrong with your brain chemistry, such as with people with bipolar disorder or severe chronic depression. In the former, the brain is unable to maintain normal equilibrium, and thus jumps back and forth between extremes. In the latter, the ability for the brain to produce the chemicals associated with being energized and generally positive are inhibited, with a multitude of possible causes.

As it were, most people that seem to lash out at random are either under extreme stress or have a mental disorder, with the former being more common. You should never feel guilty just for feeling the emotion, as that just perpetuates more stress and makes the problem worse. People that do tend to lash out do need to find a means of either reducing the source of stress, or releasing it in a more productive way.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Anger is a condition of the mind, chemistry in your brain. And yes, it does hurt, though it is a completely natural emotion that is necessary to be a functional human being. If we felt no anger, we would not react accordingly to injustices. It can be a cushion against fear that would otherwise overtake us. As much as we might dislike it, our negative emotions are just as important if not more important aspects of the human condition than positive emotions.

It is also needed to keep chemical balance in the brain. No matter how much we might like being happy, our brain simply can't maintain that emotion indefinitely, because the chemical connections that function to produce it wear out. This is actually, perhaps, most noticeable with sadness in a person without chronic depression; you can only be so sad for so long before the feeling fades. The emotion can certainly come back later, but there is only so long any emotional response beyond what is the norm for you can keep going before your mind returns to chemical equilibrium.

That is, of course, unless there is something wrong with your brain chemistry, such as with people with bipolar disorder or severe chronic depression. In the former, the brain is unable to maintain normal equilibrium, and thus jumps back and forth between extremes. In the latter, the ability for the brain to produce the chemicals associated with being energized and generally positive are inhibited, with a multitude of possible causes.

As it were, most people that seem to lash out at random are either under extreme stress or have a mental disorder, with the former being more common. You should never feel guilty just for feeling the emotion, as that just perpetuates more stress and makes the problem worse. People that do tend to lash out do need to find a means of either reducing the source of stress, or releasing it in a more productive way.

I see your point and thank you very much for expressing your thoughts. For some reason as I was reading what you posted the thought came to me.....
Take a person with Alzheimers (did i spell that right?) they are in their 60's had wife, 4 kids, you know the whole family life love kinda thing, one day this disease hits them, they forget their loved ones and do not even recognize them. So how and where does the heart and the mind separate in such a fierce way that all things, thoughts and feelings disappear ? Or was the feelings ever really there? Feelings and emotions of love, companionship, sadness, resentment, anger, loyalty etc etc... ??

 

[Monna]

I agree that anger is unresolved hurt pain or injury.

It can be caused by many many circumstances. Neglect by parents leading to a feeling that the only way I can get attention is by throwing a trantrum; Parents showing favouritism among their children (or even perceived favouritism); violence (a manifestation of anger) by parents, siblings, teachers, colleagues...; mobbing at school; broken promises; false assumptions that lead to a feeling of unfair treatment; in a close relationship where one person feels controlled by the other... on and on.

It is the classic bundle of sins that is passed from generation to generation - not necessarily parent to child, but almost certainly adult to child (even in an adult-adult relationship, where the roles played in reality are adult-child).

It may be worse in close family relationships because it is there that we know one another best, we know (at least subconsciously) one another's 'triggers' with which we can manipulate them, we know what hurts and what doesn't. In love we open up to one another in trust and make ourselves vulnerable to the other. If that person exploits that vulnerability, consciously or unconsciously, the process is on. If there isn't a constant attitude of sharing our hurts and forgiving one another, the cancer spreads and deepens.

To stop it there must be a willingness on both sides to address it. It's very much about conflict resolution. Anger management.

The process of hurt and hurt back is not restricted to one-on-one situations. Entire communities (church congregations!), nations, ethnic groups, can be affected in scaled up versions. South Africa provides a case in point. Alexander Venter wrote very much on the subject (much wider than anger) in his book Doing Reconciliation. I can recommend this very strongly, because he shows how things work at individual and collective levels, based on experience in South Africa.

 

[Solomons Porch]

When Judas betrayed Jesus
Bible states that satan had put it in his heart (1st thought and or feeling)
Then after the "sop" ( 2nd action ) satan entered him
So if satan can put a feeling or thought into a man or woman it seems it does not become an issue, until an action has been encountered.

 

[Solomons Porch]

It can be caused by many many circumstances. Neglect by parents leading to a feeling that the only way I can get attention is by throwing a trantrum; Parents showing favouritism among their children (or even perceived favouritism); violence (a manifestation of anger) by parents, siblings, teachers, colleagues...; mobbing at school; broken promises; false assumptions that lead to a feeling of unfair treatment; in a close relationship where one person feels controlled by the other... on and on.

It is the classic bundle of sins that is passed from generation to generation - not necessarily parent to child, but almost certainly adult to child (even in an adult-adult relationship, where the roles played in reality are adult-child).

It may be worse in close family relationships because it is there that we know one another best, we know (at least subconsciously) one another's 'triggers' with which we can manipulate them, we know what hurts and what doesn't. In love we open up to one another in trust and make ourselves vulnerable to the other. If that person exploits that vulnerability, consciously or unconsciously, the process is on. If there isn't a constant attitude of sharing our hurts and forgiving one another, the cancer spreads and deepens.

To stop it there must be a willingness on both sides to address it. It's very much about conflict resolution. Anger management.

The process of hurt and hurt back is not restricted to one-on-one situations. Entire communities (church congregations!), nations, ethnic groups, can be affected in scaled up versions. South Africa provides a case in point. Alexander Venter wrote very much on the subject (much wider than anger) in his book Doing Reconciliation. I can recommend this very strongly, because he shows how things work at individual and collective levels, based on experience in South Africa.

Yes it does appear that it was passed from father to son, but only one son. The other son is very delightful.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I see your point and thank you very much for expressing your thoughts. For some reason as I was reading what you posted the thought came to me.....
Take a person with Alzheimers (did i spell that right?) they are in their 60's had wife, 4 kids, you know the whole family life love kinda thing, one day this disease hits them, they forget their loved ones and do not even recognize them. So how and where does the heart and the mind separate in such a fierce way that all things, thoughts and feelings disappear ? Or was the feelings ever really there? Feelings and emotions of love, companionship, sadness, resentment, anger, loyalty etc etc... ??

Human emotions, as well as memories, come from the same source, which is the brain. You can't have an emotional response to that which you aren't aware of, so when you lose your memories, you lose the emotions associated with them. If you didn't remember a family member died, how could you feel sad about it? You don't feel emotions about memories you don't have.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Human emotions, as well as memories, come from the same source, which is the brain. You can't have an emotional response to that which you aren't aware of, so when you lose your memories, you lose the emotions associated with them. If you didn't remember a family member died, how could you feel sad about it? You don't feel emotions about memories you don't have.

Wonder why it hurts in the heart?

 

[PsychoSarah]

When Judas betrayed Jesus
Bible states that satan had put it in his heart (1st thought and or feeling)
Then after the "sop" ( 2nd action ) satan entered him
So if satan can put a feeling or thought into a man or woman it seems it does not become an issue, until an action has been encountered.

But emotions drive actions. Through manipulation of the brain, people in the past have bypassed the will of others and caused them to behave in ways they never would have otherwise. I am referring to a now mostly discontinued type of brain experiment in which it was directly stimulated artificially through poking and shocking. That's actually one of the major ways we were able to tell what parts of the brain did: you poke a person's brain in one spot, and suddenly they starting hearing noise without any sound being produced to cause it, guess that part controls the sense of hearing, and so on.

These experiments got very dangerous when they affected the emotion centers of the brain. Some people would start laughing nonstop, hardly able to breath, and others would suddenly become so enraged that they attacked everything in sight. These actions were not their personal will, but a direct result of emotional manipulation via the brain.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Wonder why it hurts in the heart?

Stress causes muscles to get more easily damaged and sore, and can make your breathing worse. So, your heart rate goes up higher than it is supposed to be, your chest muscles are contracting more than they usually do, and your breathing is off. Stuff like that happens all over your body, you just notice it in your chest and stomach area more because that's where most of your internal organs are. Most of the pain is in how the muscles respond to the stress hormones.

You don't feel it too much in the head (might get stress headaches, though) because the brain itself doesn't feel pain, since there are no pain receptors there. Ironic, considering the organ is the reason why we can feel pain at all.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Stress causes muscles to get more easily damaged and sore, and can make your breathing worse. So, your heart rate goes up higher than it is supposed to be, your chest muscles are contracting more than they usually do, and your breathing is off. Stuff like that happens all over your body, you just notice it in your chest and stomach area more because that's where most of your internal organs are. Most of the pain is in how the muscles respond to the stress hormones.

You don't feel it too much in the head (might get stress headaches, though) because the brain itself doesn't feel pain, since there are no pain receptors there. Ironic, considering the organ is the reason why we can feel pain at all.

Stress causes muscles to get more easily damaged and sore, and can make your breathing worse. So, your heart rate goes up higher than it is supposed to be, your chest muscles are contracting more than they usually do, and your breathing is off. Stuff like that happens all over your body, you just notice it in your chest and stomach area more because that's where most of your internal organs are. Most of the pain is in how the muscles respond to the stress hormones.

You don't feel it too much in the head (might get stress headaches, though) because the brain itself doesn't feel pain, since there are no pain receptors there. Ironic, considering the organ is the reason why we can feel pain at all.

Do you think we "choose" to love?
Or we choose to be angry?
Therefore resulting in the body reacting in such a way.
And yes it is very ironic !!

 

[JacksBratt]

It is crippling and evil. I take it that your family and close friends know of your wife's problem. But what I see is that they only do this to certain people, mainly the ones they love. They seem to be able to "choose" who to unleash this upon. From where I stand this person (father) does not show this behavior around others. He is very manipulative and deceiving, able to "act" as if nothing has happened or did happen. Does it seem that your wife actually picks and chooses who can "see" this side of her? Because to the outside world, nobody would believe this about them. Curious ??

It is very tiresome for them. They must wear a "mask" of kindness and act with decorum when they are around people that are not ensnared in their world. Also around people that they respect very much.


Usually, soon as they leave a get together or end up back in the presence of people where they can "be themselves" the mask comes off and the people are made aware of all the things they did to evoke the ire of chastisement, while the mask was on.

They will hold people upon a pedestal and these people will be regarded as perfect and their actions should be emulated. You should never speak against something these people have done or believe.
However, these people will be taken off the pedestal immediately and become useless if they do something obviously wrong. All their previous actions will then be forgotten and you should never listen to them again.

Manipulation is a standard tool and they become skilled at it. My wife is very good at not showing these aspects of her character. Although it is very draining on her to do so.

 

[Solomons Porch]

It is very tiresome for them. They must wear a "mask" of kindness and act with decorum when they are around people that are not ensnared in their world. Also around people that they respect very much.


Usually, soon as they leave a get together or end up back in the presence of people where they can "be themselves" the mask comes off and the people are made aware of all the things they did to evoke the ire of chastisement, while the mask was on.

They will hold people upon a pedestal and these people will be regarded as perfect and their actions should be emulated. You should never speak against something these people have done or believe.
However, these people will be taken off the pedestal immediately and become useless if they do something obviously wrong. All their previous actions will then be forgotten and you should never listen to them again.

Manipulation is a standard tool and they become skilled at it. My wife is very good at not showing these aspects of her character. Although it is very draining on her to do so.

Does she seem depressed or even still angry (justified to herself) after an outburst where she will sleep and or lay around?

 

[JacksBratt]

Does she seem depressed or even still angry (justified to herself) after an outburst where she will sleep and or lay around?

She tells me that it is very hurtful. This is her justification. She is always feeling hurt or disrespected. Never gets enough compliments, even requesting a verbal compliment for the most menial and routine tasks. Her anger is always justified, in her opinion. Apologies must be long and detailed and include disrespecting of your self, admitting you are incompetent, saying things like "I was hurtful", "I was negligent", "I was lazy" ... anything derogatory to your character, you must promise to never do it again (which will be held against you when you do it again in the future), you must say that you know why she feels so hurt and you understand how hurtful it was.... then, you wait to see if your apology is accepted.

I would imagine what they do after this would vary with every person as to what they feel they are justified in doing. Sleeping, going shopping and spending money on frivolous things, doing anything that is entertaining to them and that you may disapprove of. You, of course, would not be justified in any comment on their action as you have just caused them hurt and their actions are then permissible.

 

[Solomons Porch]

She tells me that it is very hurtful. This is her justification. She is always feeling hurt or disrespected. Never gets enough compliments, even requesting a verbal compliment for the most menial and routine tasks. Her anger is always justified, in her opinion. Apologies must be long and detailed and include disrespecting of your self, admitting you are incompetent, saying things like "I was hurtful", "I was negligent", "I was lazy" ... anything derogatory to your character, you must promise to never do it again (which will be held against you when you do it again in the future), you must say that you know why she feels so hurt and you understand how hurtful it was.... then, you wait to see if your apology is accepted.

I would imagine what they do after this would vary with every person as to what they feel they are justified in doing. Sleeping, going shopping and spending money on frivolous things, doing anything that is entertaining to them and that you may disapprove of. You, of course, would not be justified in any comment on their action as you have just caused them hurt and their actions are then permissible.

I suppose later on I should send you a PM as to not confuse others, but your information is GREATLY appreciated. I will PM later if that is ok with you??

 

[PsychoSarah]

Do you think we "choose" to love?
Or we choose to be angry?
Therefore resulting in the body reacting in such a way.
And yes it is very ironic !!

Hmm, yes and no. We can consciously influence our emotions to some extent, but we can never force ourselves to feel something that entirely contradicts what we would normally would feel. Especially not in the case of the basic emotions of anger and fear; we cannot choose not to feel angry, nor can we choose to not feel fear. However, we can use strategies to gradually change our feelings, as well as choose to not act on emotions and allow the feeling to fade without dwelling on the source of the emotion. Love is an emotion that takes time and interaction with a person to develop. We can choose to make falling in love more likely by spending more positive time with another person, but you can't force it. Aside from shallow crushes, the emotion of love is too complex to even chemically induce. I would say that we have the most control over our emotions when the emotional response is weak.

As an example, when I was a little kid, I used to somewhat like the smell of cigarette smoke. However, after I learned that second hand smoke had health consequences, I trained myself to have an aversion to it over time by repeating in my head over and over again that I hated it, and holding my breath whenever I smelled it. Now I can't stand the smell.

 

[Monna]

I just dont understand how they can see it in another and give them Godly advice, but NEVER apply it to themself. Blows my mind

Trying to take the speck out of a person's eye without realising there's a log in your own.

Whenever I find myself criticizing someone an image comes into my mind of me pointing my index finger at them - like my teachers used to do to me.
Then I realize the configuration of my hand - one finger pointing at the person I am criticizing (or correcting) but three pointing back at me! It's often this that makes we stop and shut up. I also remember being told when I was small "watch out for someone who makes a big fuss about someone else's faults - they're almost always trying to cover up their own, though they may not know it." We tend to think that if we can put someone else down, we somehow end up on a higher (moral) level than they are.

They don't see it, because it's in their blind spot. Just as in driving a car there are places in the rearview mirror we cannot see if we don't move our head, so there are spots in our self-image that we can't see without deliberate effort, usually trying to look from another perspective - or accepting someone else's perspective.

I wonder if role play would help. I used to run a role play with a community setting. In the community there was a Forestry Officer whose role was to identify illegal loggers, arrest and prosecute them. There was also an illegal logger - an extremely poor man who had a wife a four children to support. Then there was a corrupt Town Mayor who owned a sawmill, and bought all the logs from the illegal logger, while also exploiting him mercilessly by threatening to expose his illegal activities. In the exercise, I had the real life Forestry Officer play the part of the poverty-stricken illegal logger.

Usually, the real life Forestry Officer got a completely different perspective on why the poor man is forced to engage in illegal logging. It is a case, not so much of trying to get him to go easy on the real life illegal loggers, but to give them a different perspective on the issue, and understand that the only way they will stop illegal logging is to do something about the social injustice that has reduced this man and his family to poverty. In a conflict situation you need people who understand where the other side is "coming from," not to accept it, but to permit the development of win-win solutions.

I wonder if anyone has had a deep conversation with the Father in this case, about his father, or maybe grandfather, (or the father role models - in my case it was a violent boarding school principal) and the relationships they had with him. What he remembers, what he appreciated, what he really did not like. The conversation should not get to the place where one deliberately leads him into seeing where his own behaviour came from, but let him talk to the point where he sees for himself what has happened. Maybe this approach has already been taken. Change must come from within.