While ANGER sleeps ?

[Solomons Porch]

Few things on my mind and hopefully I can make it clear in asking and commenting at the same time.

Bible states:

anger rests in the bosom of fools Ecclesiastes 7:9

he that is soon angry dealeth foolishly Prov 14:17

a wrathful man stirreth up strife Prov 15:18

an angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression Prov 29:22

make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go. Lest thou learn his ways, and get a "snare to thy soul" Prov 22:24,25

it is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman Prov 21:19

but I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment Matt 5:22

by ye angry and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath Eph 4:26

I first hand can testify to the damages of "anger". So this morning I have been given many scriptures by God as to this subject. He poured in one after the other, putting all the peices of the puzzle together. I had been searching for answers and to some extent I believe I found them. The human body and its emotions is truly puzzling.

Have you ever been around someone that exploded in anger (without good or sensible reason) and lashed out furiously? and you could almost feel their hate for you? Yet they are suppose to love you and you are left dazed and confused by this.

And your just thinking to yourself "what in the world was that and why did they act that way"?

Why did they have to get that mad and put their hands on someone and break everything around them?

Or you live with someone that one minute can be so loving and caring and then BOOM flip the switch and your thinking, ummm what just happened?

I will also choose their delusions and I will bring their fears upon them (Is 66:4)

They do not sleep unless they have done evil. Their sleep is taken away unless the make someone fall (Prov 4:16)

But if he be found he shall restore sevenfold, he shall give all the substance of his house (Prov 6:31)

Anger "rests" in your bosom. (so it sleeps until it is stirred and once stirred =destruction)

Their sleep is taken away unless they make someone fall. (they are able to sleep without caring the pain they caused, because unless it "hurts" someone by doing evil to them, they themself will find no rest. So does that mean that because anger is resting (they are not) unless they do evil? So they act out and cause harm, therefore their body can rest? )

Do not let the sun go down on your anger. (which is a great warning, because you think well if I am asleep, I cannot harm anyone. So what happens when we sleep with "anger".? The bible states that when we sleep on anger we have given a foothold to the devil. Wonder whats happening while they sleep?

So is their a "spirit of anger or a spirit of wrath"?

Be angry ( it is ok to get angry, we all do BUT sin not ). So at what point does it become sin? So to let the "spirit of anger" out gives that person rest.?

How many times have you quickly acted out in anger and then shortly regretted what you said or did? But what about those that are not sorry and feel justified and continue to live this way, day after day you never knowing when the next explosion may come. I am not looking for debate, I am asking your thoughts, scripture or feelings on the subject of anger. Is it a spirit? Is it an evil spirit (at some point)? When does anger become unnatural and leave the human level into the (evil) spiritual level?

**Had no idea where to post this thread. Please move to proper location if needed thanks**

 

[PropheticTimes]

I think the only anger that is not damaging is righteous anger, and I don't mean the anger we may feel because someone else hurt us, that is self-righteousness. I mean the righteous anger Jesus displayed in the Temple when He turned over the tables of the money changers.

Do I think it's an evil spirit? I think anything that causes negative effect can potentially be of a spirit. Personally, I believe there is some deeply seeded hurt inside that person that may stem back to childhood that they have not faced (anger comes out of pain), they may not even know it's there, but the pain builds to this point of explosion.

I'm not sure I said anything worthwhile lol but, yeah, there's my 2 cents.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I agree that anger is unresolved hurt pain or injury. I suppose the part that disturbs me is why the anger goes undetected and explodes in the direction of those that did not cause them pain injury etc. Good points Prophetic

 

[Left]

So it's okay if you interpret those verses to say that you should not be friends with the angry. I considered the verses to be more of metaphorical, general wisdom than in a literal sense.

Angry people, come my way . You can be friends with me .

 

[Solomons Porch]

Theory I must say you amuse me even to the point that I had a dream last night (wont go there). I mean that in the most friendliest of ways

Truth, but lets say that we are not talking about "friendship" but maybe referring to a girlfriend, boyfriend, son, daughter, mom, dad, hubby, wife.....

The ones that make you think or feel there is more than one person living in there??

 

[PropheticTimes]

I agree that anger is unresolved hurt pain or injury. I suppose the part that disturbs me is why the anger goes undetected and explodes in the direction of those that did not cause them pain injury etc. Good points Prophetic

I think maybe because they themselves don't know the source of their anger, so it explodes randomly at whomever may be standing in front of them.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I am using the husband/wife mentality so as to see that a person is bound by covenant with God in a relationship, not so much in a friendship basis. We can all walk away from such friends, but it is not that easy when its family or spouse.

I wonder then how you deal with them, when you see this repeatedly happening and causing great pain. Esp if you are in a relationship with them and/or married to them. Because it appears that they have no sense of logic and feel their actions are justified. I once heard that a man that beats his wife is a very unhappy man inside, that its not about her, its about him. So how do you deal with such anger, when the focal point is on the wife, which does nothing to deserve such beating and emotional abuse? I know the usual answer is she must leave get out and away from him. But I wonder where and how you put an end to this repeated behavior in someone. Anger seems to destroy everything in its path, even the one it resides in, so when do they wake up if ever, and what does it take to get their attention that they need help? After they have ranted and broken everything (even the wife) all they want to do is go to sleep. Which is why the scripture is posted in the thread that they cannot sleep until they have caused harm or evil. On a spiritual level how do you deal with this? How do you combat it and resolve it, put an end to it?

 

[JacksBratt]

Few things on my mind and hopefully I can make it clear in asking and commenting at the same time.

Bible states:

anger rests in the bosom of fools Ecclesiastes 7:9

he that is soon angry dealeth foolishly Prov 14:17

a wrathful man stirreth up strife Prov 15:18

an angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man aboundeth in transgression Prov 29:22

make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go. Lest thou learn his ways, and get a "snare to thy soul" Prov 22:24,25

it is better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman Prov 21:19

but I say unto you, that whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment Matt 5:22

by ye angry and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath Eph 4:26

I first hand can testify to the damages of "anger". So this morning I have been given many scriptures by God as to this subject. He poured in one after the other, putting all the peices of the puzzle together. I had been searching for answers and to some extent I believe I found them. The human body and its emotions is truly puzzling.

Have you ever been around someone that exploded in anger (without good or sensible reason) and lashed out furiously? and you could almost feel their hate for you? Yet they are suppose to love you and you are left dazed and confused by this.

And your just thinking to yourself "what in the world was that and why did they act that way"?

Why did they have to get that mad and put their hands on someone and break everything around them?

Or you live with someone that one minute can be so loving and caring and then BOOM flip the switch and your thinking, ummm what just happened?

I will also choose their delusions and I will bring their fears upon them (Is 66:4)

They do not sleep unless they have done evil. Their sleep is taken away unless the make someone fall (Prov 4:16)

But if he be found he shall restore sevenfold, he shall give all the substance of his house (Prov 6:31)

Anger "rests" in your bosom. (so it sleeps until it is stirred and once stirred =destruction)

Their sleep is taken away unless they make someone fall. (they are able to sleep without caring the pain they caused, because unless it "hurts" someone by doing evil to them, they themself will find no rest. So does that mean that because anger is resting (they are not) unless they do evil? So they act out and cause harm, therefore their body can rest? )

Do not let the sun go down on your anger. (which is a great warning, because you think well if I am asleep, I cannot harm anyone. So what happens when we sleep with "anger".? The bible states that when we sleep on anger we have given a foothold to the devil. Wonder whats happening while they sleep?

So is their a "spirit of anger or a spirit of wrath"?

Be angry ( it is ok to get angry, we all do BUT sin not ). So at what point does it become sin? So to let the "spirit of anger" out gives that person rest.?

How many times have you quickly acted out in anger and then shortly regretted what you said or did? But what about those that are not sorry and feel justified and continue to live this way, day after day you never knowing when the next explosion may come. I am not looking for debate, I am asking your thoughts, scripture or feelings on the subject of anger. Is it a spirit? Is it an evil spirit (at some point)? When does anger become unnatural and leave the human level into the (evil) spiritual level?

**Had no idea where to post this thread. Please move to proper location if needed thanks**

I know such a person. They are Christian, no doubt about that. However, they are the only one in their life that is aloud to be angry, has the right to be angry and must never be questioned on their right to be angry or dismiss someone else's anger.

They can be so loving and caring but, like you say, at the flip of a switch, they are livid over some insignificant issue.

The issue will not be resolved until the person, who is singled our as the cause and responsible soul, admits incompetence or negligence of some sort, takes owner ship and promises, on their soul, to never doing such an autrasity ever again with fear of the damnation of their soul.

This person, who is angered so easily, is never the fault of any issue and thus, never needs to apologize.

Oh ya, I know this type of person well. It is one of my only questions about salvation and the assurance of people being saved or not. How can someone who is obviously a servant of Christ, as child of God, a new creature in Christ, be of such behavior? Not only that, but when it is brought to their attention, they have every excuse going as to why it is OK to behave in such a manner.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I know such a person. They are Christian, no doubt about that. However, they are the only one in their life that is aloud to be angry, has the right to be angry and must never be questioned on their right to be angry or dismiss someone else's anger.

They can be so loving and caring but, like you say, at the flip of a switch, they are livid over some insignificant issue.

The issue will not be resolved until the person, who is singled our as the cause and responsible soul, admits incompetence or negligence of some sort, takes owner ship and promises, on their soul, to never doing such an autrasity ever again with fear of the damnation of their soul.

This person, who is angered so easily, is never the fault of any issue and thus, never needs to apologize.

Oh ya, I know this type of person well. It is one of my only questions about salvation and the assurance of people being saved or not. How can someone who is obviously a servant of Christ, as child of God, a new creature in Christ, be of such behavior? Not only that, but when it is brought to their attention, they have every excuse going as to why it is OK to behave in such a manner.

WOW its like you read my mind. They are justified in any and all of their behaviors and its as if "we owed them something"? I am wondering how these scriptures apply to this subject of "anger". There is never a heart felt apology and lots of times they crossed a HUGE boundary with even physical harm. It just has my mind pondering ya know? You say you are saved and go to church, etc etc. But what about this part? Oh the questions....

 

[JacksBratt]

WOW its like you read my mind. They are justified in any and all of their behaviors and its as if "we owed them something"? I am wondering how these scriptures apply to this subject of "anger". There is never a heart felt apology and lots of times they crossed a HUGE boundary with even physical harm. It just has my mind pondering ya know? You say you are saved and go to church, etc etc. But what about this part? Oh the questions....

I don't know who, in your life, is the person that exhibits these characteristics. However, if they are that close to what I am describing you should check out this site:

Out of the FOG - Index


Then go to the tab that presents insight into the personality disorders. Then look into a disorder called narcissistic behavior disorder or also similar to OCPD.

This site and forum that is linked to it has helped me enormously.

 

[Monna]

Depending on how you look on it, anger is a level of an emotion that comes in many grades, something like:
I am miffed, irked, hurt, ticked off, put out, ruffled, offended, rankled, irritated, annoyed, maddened, angry, enraged, infuriated, ... there are many other synonyns, and exactly which order of severity you put them in is up to you - but you get the point that all of these emotions seem to be related.

It seems more or less impossible to stop the emotion arising. That's the nature of emotions. But we need to manage anger so that it doesn't take over us. It may arise from many specific things, but I would bet that almost all of them are somehow related to a feeling of something not being "fair" - usually to us. Righteous anger comes from seeing a behaviour that is unjust to someone else. Jesus saw the exploitation of the people coming to make offerings to God by people most interested in making money - financial benefit for themselves. And doing it in the very "house of God." Like 'In your face, God' with a sneer. It was an activity that turned the worship of God to the worship of money. This was an offense to God himself, as well as to all the people coming in sincere sacrificial repentance.

Being hurt by someone else is closely akin to the feeling "that's not fair" or "that wasn't fair" - to me of course. That upsets us (a mild form of anger) or it may infuriate us - depending on our state of mind, how serious we feel the injury to our pride was, or how well we have learned to manage our anger. It is natural to be angry, but we must ensure that we don't sin in our anger. Jesus, at least as he was being nailed unjustly to the cross, and possibly many other times when he was publicly attacked or humiliated, seemed to use immediate forgiveness to ensure that his anger did not turn into self-pity, dislike and hatred, resentment and bitterness, or worse. (Father forgive them because they don't realise what they're doing.") He likened hatred to murder. Instead of focusing on the hurt he was feeling, and the injustice committed against him, he focused on the "heart damage" the soldiers or high priests were doing to themselves.

So when we are hurt, or made angry (at all scales) if we don't take immediate steps to 'innoculate ourselves' with grace and forgiveness, we expose ourselves to the risk of sinning ourselves. Even if (some would say, especially if) we keep everything bottled up, these resentments, ill-feelings towards the perpetrators, and bitterness start emotional and psychological cancers in our "hearts" - our emotional lives, our psyches. That is why we should have the same evening as a deadline for dealing with the issue.

If we let these feeling take root over night, and enter our unconscious minds, they fester deep inside, and become like "sleepers" ready to jump out when we least expect them. If we allow them to continue "resting in our bosoms" they multiply - everything that happens afterward gets filtered by the experience we're had, reinforcing the idea that we are being unfairly treated, assuming that what was actually meant as a harmless bit of humour, was deliberately targeted to make us feel bad, and each time the emotional cancer grows... And ultimately it does keep us awake, it ensures that the only 'pleasure' we get is through vengeance of some kind, and since that pleasure is very short lived, it is repeated againg and again.

This is why Jesus made such a big deal about getting right with each other - regardless of whether I have hurt (sinned against) someone else, of I have been hurt by someone else. Both sides have a responsibility to act against the emotional and spiritual consequences that arise in both parties. And doing it as soon as possible.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I don't know who, in your life, is the person that exhibits these characteristics. However, if they are that close to what I am describing you should check out this site:

Out of the FOG - Index


Then go to the tab that presents insight into the personality disorders. Then look into a disorder called narcissistic behavior disorder or also similar to OCPD.

This site and forum that is linked to it has helped me enormously.

Thank you so much I will check out this website. I know these disorders exsist and am looking for spiritual answers just as much as any other form of treatment etc. Im seeing this in a father and a son, one son is nothing like the father, the other is identical in his ways to the point that its scary. Even the father knows it to be true, he condemns the sons behavior, but not his own. I just dont understand how they can see it in another and give them Godly advice, but NEVER apply it to themself. Blows my mind

 

[Solomons Porch]

Depending on how you look on it, anger is a level of an emotion that comes in many grades, something like:
I am miffed, irked, hurt, ticked off, put out, ruffled, offended, rankled, irritated, annoyed, maddened, angry, enraged, infuriated, ... there are many other synonyns, and exactly which order of severity you put them in is up to you - but you get the point that all of these emotions seem to be related.

It seems more or less impossible to stop the emotion arising. That's the nature of emotions. But we need to manage anger so that it doesn't take over us. It may arise from many specific things, but I would bet that almost all of them are somehow related to a feeling of something not being "fair" - usually to us. Righteous anger comes from seeing a behaviour that is unjust to someone else. Jesus saw the exploitation of the people coming to make offerings to God by people most interested in making money - financial benefit for themselves. And doing it in the very "house of God." Like 'In your face, God' with a sneer. It was an activity that turned the worship of God to the worship of money. This was an offense to God himself, as well as to all the people coming in sincere sacrificial repentance.

Being hurt by someone else is closely akin to the feeling "that's not fair" or "that wasn't fair" - to me of course. That upsets us (a mild form of anger) or it may infuriate us - depending on our state of mind, how serious we feel the injury to our pride was, or how well we have learned to manage our anger. It is natural to be angry, but we must ensure that we don't sin in our anger. Jesus, at least as he was being nailed unjustly to the cross, and possibly many other times when he was publicly attacked or humiliated, seemed to use immediate forgiveness to ensure that his anger did not turn into self-pity, dislike and hatred, resentment and bitterness, or worse. (Father forgive them because they don't realise what they're doing.") He likened hatred to murder. Instead of focusing on the hurt he was feeling, and the injustice committed against him, he focused on the "heart damage" the soldiers or high priests were doing to themselves.

So when we are hurt, or made angry (at all scales) if we don't take immediate steps to 'innoculate ourselves' with grace and forgiveness, we expose ourselves to the risk of sinning ourselves. Even if (some would say, especially if) we keep everything bottled up, these resentments, ill-feelings towards the perpetrators, and bitterness start emotional and psychological cancers in our "hearts" - our emotional lives, our psyches. That is why we should have the same evening as a deadline for dealing with the issue.

If we let these feeling take root over night, and enter our unconscious minds, they fester deep inside, and become like "sleepers" ready to jump out when we least expect them. If we allow them to continue "resting in our bosoms" they multiply - everything that happens afterward gets filtered by the experience we're had, reinforcing the idea that we are being unfairly treated, assuming that what was actually meant as a harmless bit of humour, was deliberately targeted to make us feel bad, and each time the emotional cancer grows... And ultimately it does keep us awake, it ensures that the only 'pleasure' we get is through vengeance of some kind, and since that pleasure is very short lived, it is repeated againg and again.

This is why Jesus made such a big deal about getting right with each other - regardless of whether I have hurt (sinned against) someone else, of I have been hurt by someone else. Both sides have a responsibility to act against the emotional and spiritual consequences that arise in both parties. And doing it as soon as possible.

Very good advice
The spirit of bitterness can eat at the soul, mind, emotions etc.....it is a horrible long slow death
And when someone is treated this way unfairly, it is a struggle to not allow bitterness to come in

 

[JacksBratt]

Thank you so much I will check out this website. I know these disorders exsist and am looking for spiritual answers just as much as any other form of treatment etc. Im seeing this in a father and a son, one son is nothing like the father, the other is identical in his ways to the point that its scary. Even the father knows it to be true, he condemns the sons behavior, but not his own. I just dont understand how they can see it in another and give them Godly advice, but NEVER apply it to themself. Blows my mind

You are very welcome for the link. I hope that these people don't have too much impact on your life.

I don't believe that I will ever understand the driving forces or how to fully deal with it... but this is the evil device that has gripped my wife. Our family is totally dysfunctional due to this mental illness. I have survived this far and our kids have turned out very functional due only to the power of prayer, by myself and close friends and relatives.

 

[Galatea]

Well, I think a lot of anger issues can be handled when things get talked out, I'm currently angry about something. I really have no right to be angry, I know this, and wish I could talk it out with the person I'm angry. But he is incommunicado, so unable to thrash it out verbally. So, I have to get over myself and calm down on my own-with prayer, of course.

Anger comes from hurt, fear, confusion, pain many times. We all get angry from time to time, so if you cut out all the people who get angry at times, I doubt you'd have anyone left in your life.

 

[Solomons Porch]

You are very welcome for the link. I hope that these people don't have too much impact on your life.

I don't believe that I will ever understand the driving forces or how to fully deal with it... but this is the evil device that has gripped my wife. Our family is totally dysfunctional due to this mental illness. I have survived this far and our kids have turned out very functional due only to the power of prayer, by myself and close friends and relatives.

It is crippling and evil. I take it that your family and close friends know of your wife's problem. But what I see is that they only do this to certain people, mainly the ones they love. They seem to be able to "choose" who to unleash this upon. From where I stand this person (father) does not show this behavior around others. He is very manipulative and deceiving, able to "act" as if nothing has happened or did happen. Does it seem that your wife actually picks and chooses who can "see" this side of her? Because to the outside world, nobody would believe this about them. Curious ??

 

[Solomons Porch]

Well, I think a lot of anger issues can be handled when things get talked out, I'm currently angry about something. I really have no right to be angry, I know this, and wish I could talk it out with the person I'm angry. But he is incommunicado, so unable to thrash it out verbally. So, I have to get over myself and calm down on my own-with prayer, of course.

Anger comes from hurt, fear, confusion, pain many times. We all get angry from time to time, so if you cut out all the people who get angry at times, I doubt you'd have anyone left in your life.

Very true and it is impossible if the person is not willing to discuss it. Totally leaves you bound up in all sorts of ways. Takes much much prayer !!!

 

[Galatea]

Very true and it is impossible if the person is not willing to discuss it. Totally leaves you bound up in all sorts of ways. Takes much much prayer !!!

I think too, that people are angry with people they love more than acquaintances. The feelings are deeper. For instance, if you say something rude to me, I'd be annoyed- but not angry. Perhaps miffed. It wouldn't turn me inside out and upside down.

But, if I perceive someone who I love disappointing me or hurting me, I am more likely to be angry- the feelings are deeper. We can only hurt the ones we love, and we can only be hurt by the ones we love. If I don't know you that well, and you are mean, I can shake it off. It's not that simple with people you love.

 

[Monna]

Is it a spirit? Is it an evil spirit (at some point)? When does anger become unnatural and leave the human level into the (evil) spiritual level?

It is a 'spirit' in the sense of an attitude or emotion. Like we say "Wow! you're in good spirits today!"
It is a God-given emotion - he also gets angry, and his anger seems very much directed at injustice - hurting others in some way. However, his anger is righteous, not selfish.
When we don't deal with it, it begins to deal with us, and takes over us more and more...simmering underneath. As in my comment above. Then it beomes of tool of our sinful nature. I will not be dogmatic about it, but I suspect we are sinful enough as we are that we don't need an "evil spirit (fallen angel)" to come in and reside within us for anger to become a behavioural habit. But I can definitely accept that in some examples the 'devil, as a lion prouling around,' finds a person who is so cancerous with anger that an evil spirit can take over and run that person's life.
At the same time I think it "leaves the human level into spiritual level" as soon as we let it take root. This is why Jesus saw it as so critical to deal with it immediately or at least "before the sun sets." and I'm sure he meant that quite literally.

 

[Monna]

Very true and it is impossible if the person is not willing to discuss it.

There are always at least two sides. The one causing hurt, in this case, by anger; the one being hurt by the other's anger.

My own experience is this: When I was deeply hurt - and didn't do anything to address it for years - becuase I didn't recognise my emotion for what it was - I began to build up deep resentment against this person - my best friend in college. Eventually, God showed me that I needed to go to the person and ask his forgiveness for the bitterness and resentment that I harboured in my heart against him. This was difficult to accept, because at the time of the hurt, I had done absolutely nothing - I was collatoral damage in a fight that I did not participate in. My reason said "It is not my fault, it is his. He must come to me and ask me for forgiveness." He didn't do it in 30 years. But I did go to him, and did explain how I felt, and asked him for forgiveness. He was stunned, because he had had no idea of how he had hurt me. This opened the way for him to say he was sorry.

When you extend forgiveness to someone, judgement of wrong doing is implicit. You cannot forgive something that isn't morally wrong. Therefore, some wrong doers will not accept your forgiveness because they don't feel they have done anything wrong. Usually it's "someone else's fault." When you have made the approach (possibly more than once) and the other person is not open to forgiveness given or received, there is little you can do but go on... You have done what you can. Do not give sin a new opportunity in your own heart to allow self-righteousness and renewed bitterness to take hold! Now you must wait and pray, and maybe one day the Holy Spirit (who is always working for reconciliation by the way) will be able to move the person's heart and mind to return to you. Then it is essential that you act in loving grace and not in righteous indignation (why did it take you so long?).