Which person of the Trinity was within the pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night?

[Bible Highlighter]

There was never any disagreement about the Trinity.

Then we are on the same page.

 

[DamianWarS]

Which person (or persons) of the Trinity was within the pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night?

"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night" (Exodus 13:21).

Physical presence of manifested presence?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Physical presence of manifested presence?

Scripture makes it clear that the Lord Himself was literally inside the actual pillar (pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night) itself.

"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night" (Exodus 13:21).

"And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud," (Exodus 14:24).

 

[DamianWarS]

Scripture makes it clear that the Lord Himself was literally inside the actual pillar (pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night) itself.

"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night" (Exodus 13:21).

"And it came to pass, that in the morning watch the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud," (Exodus 14:24).

God is spirit not material things. So what Moses saw may be not unlike what Dorothy saw with the Wizard, except behind the current is something far greater.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God is spirit not material things. So what Moses saw may be not unlike what Dorothy saw with the Wizard, except behind the current is something far greater.

Well, the Wizard of Oz is pagan entertainment that is pure fantasy that promotes witchcraft. The Bible is the very words of God and they are true. So I will not discuss the Wizard of Oz seeing it is sinful entertainment that the world loves.

As for God being spirit and yet Him being able to manifest Himself and or His Spirit being able to effect this physical world:

While God is spirit, He did reveal that He had a body to Moses but He did not show His face because that would have killed him. God covered Moses with His hand so as to protect Him, as well. Remember, God made man in His image. Now, someone may not like the idea that God revealed Himself in a human form and thus as a result they may reject what those verses plainly say in Exodus 33, they need to realize that faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). We have to read and believe our Bible even if it may not make sense to our preconceived notions or beliefs about God. The first part of Proverbs 14:12 says, "there is a way that seems right unto a man, ..."; But as you know the second half of that verse describes a "not so happy ending" for the individual who thinks of things correctly in his own way.

God also talked with Moses later on in Exodus 34, as well. At the end of this chapter we learn that by doing so, it affected Moses on a physical level. The face of Moses had shined so bright he had to wear a veil when he talked with the people of Israel. But when he talked with the Lord, Moses did not need the veil.

So just reading and believing Exodus 33-34 proves that God has revealed Himself in a way that we can see Him for who is in the physical world (even though He is still spirit), and God was able to affect Moses on a physical level.

Moses asked to see the glory of the Lord.
Yet you say that God cannot be see because He is spirit.
Yet, God did answer Moses and revealed Himself to Moses.
If what you say is true, then God would have said that He could not reveal the true or full version of Himself and He would instead have to show some kind of other manifestation, etc. But is that what God said? No. That is what you are saying.

 

[DamianWarS]

Well, the Wizard of Oz is pagan entertainment that is pure fantasy that promotes witchcraft. The Bible is the very words of God and they are true. So I will not discuss the Wizard of Oz seeing it is sinful entertainment that the world loves.

As for God being spirit and yet Him being able to manifest Himself and or His Spirit being able to effect this physical world:

While God is spirit, He did reveal that He had a body to Moses but He did not show His face because that would have killed him. God covered Moses with His hand so as to protect Him, as well. Remember, God made man in His image. Now, someone may not like the idea that God revealed Himself in a human form and thus as a result they may reject what those verses plainly say in Exodus 33, they need to realize that faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). We have to read and believe our Bible even if it may not make sense to our preconceived notions or beliefs about God. The first part of Proverbs 14:12 says, "there is a way that seems right unto a man, ..."; But as you know the second half of that verse describes a "not so happy ending" for the individual who thinks of things correctly in his own way.

God also talked with Moses later on in Exodus 34, as well. At the end of this chapter we learn that by doing so, it affected Moses on a physical level. The face of Moses had shined so bright he had to wear a veil when he talked with the people of Israel. But when he talked with the Lord, Moses did not need the veil.

So just reading and believing Exodus 33-34 proves that God has revealed Himself in a way that we can see Him for who is in the physical world (even though He is still spirit), and God was able to affect Moses on a physical level.

Moses asked to see the glory of the Lord.
Yet you say that God cannot be see because He is spirit.
Yet, God did answer Moses and revealed Himself to Moses.
If what you say is true, then God would have said that He could not reveal the true or full version of Himself and He would instead have to show some kind of other manifestation, etc. But is that what God said? No. That is what you are saying.

I see it as God contextualizing himself into an ancient world that could not fathom the limitlessness of God; God was simply too vast, too outside their minds and too abstract. So he manifests himself in ways to produce awe, glory, power, fear and all of the things we think of with God. Christ is different. The incarnation wasn't about the power and awe of God, at least not in these ways, it was about the redemption of God so a true incarnation from birth to death was important. But this method of incarnation was not important on the mountain so God is free to manifest himself creatively.

To be honest I don't know what God was on top of the mountain (real flesh or something else) and I doubt Moses entered much into a philosophical debate with him, but I don't see the question all that important. Perhaps to an ancient knowing what God looks like or sounds like or feels like was very important but today to value those things are pagan mindsets. The modern Western civilization has innately the most abstract thinking of all time and to call God something beyond physical is something we embrace. Form for us is too limiting to be God where formless for Moses would have been too mind-blowing for him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see it as God contextualizing himself into an ancient world that could not fathom the limitlessness of God; God was simply too vast, too outside their minds and too abstract. So he manifests himself in ways to produce awe, glory, power, fear and all of the things we think of with God. Christ is different. The incarnation wasn't about the power and awe of God, at least not in these ways, it was about the redemption of God so a true incarnation from birth to death was important. But this method of incarnation was not important on the mountain so God is free to manifest himself creatively.

So when Moses asked God to see His glory, then why didn't God say anything about what you are talking about here?

To be honest I don't know what God was on top of the mountain (real flesh or something else) and I doubt Moses entered much into a philosophical debate with him, but I don't see the question all that important. Perhaps to an ancient knowing what God looks like or sounds like or feels like was very important but today to value those things are pagan mindsets. The modern Western civilization has innately the most abstract thinking of all time and to call God something beyond physical is something we embrace. Form for us is too limiting to be God where formless for Moses would have been too mind-blowing for him.

Again, this kind of thinking is not really found in Scripture. You are merely thinking that this is so and it is not clearly stated in Scripture. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). I mean, are you saying that Moses did not even talk with God directly, too? This is troublesome indeed if that is what you are saying. The text clearly says that is what happened. You either believe it, or you don't believe it. In the famous faith chapter (Hebrews 11), we know by faith that the worlds were framed by the Word of God. That takes faith to believe that. One believes the Genesis account or they don't believe it. Some may think God did not even create the universe. But He did. We know that the worlds were framed by the Living Word of God. Faith. We believe it because the Bible says so and not by our own thinking that leads to death.

 

[DamianWarS]

So when Moses asked God to see His glory, then why didn't God say anything about what you are talking about here?

That's the method of contextualizing. God shows Moses what he can grasp.

Again, this kind of thinking is not really found in Scripture. You are merely thinking that this is so and it is not clearly stated in Scripture. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). I mean, are you saying that Moses did not even talk with God directly, too? This is troublesome indeed if that is what you are saying. The text clearly says that is what happened. You either believe it, or you don't believe it. In the famous faith chapter (Hebrews 11), we know by faith that the worlds were framed by the Word of God. That takes faith to believe that. One believes the Genesis account or they don't believe it. Some may think God did not even create the universe. But He did. We know that the worlds were framed by the Living Word of God. Faith. We believe it because the Bible says so and not by our own thinking that leads to death.

I'm saying voice is form and body is form but God is far greater than these things. God covers Moses with his hand, and shows his back so he doesn't see his face, because if he does he will die. Does God have a hand, back, face? These are limiting features and God is limitless. Moses did authentically experience these things but we know God didn't reveal all. What Moses saw was what God showed him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's the method of contextualizing. God shows Moses what he can grasp.

This sounds like an invention of your own thinking or philosophy.
Where does it say this in the Bible?

I'm saying voice is form and body is form but God is far greater than these things. God covers Moses with his hand, and shows his back so he doesn't see his face, because if he does he will die. Does God have a hand, back, face? These are limiting features and God is limitless. Moses did authentically experience these things but we know God didn't reveal all. What Moses saw was what God showed him.

Okay. So God did manifest Himself in human form for real? But this was not God's true form?
Moses asked to see His glory. He showed it. If it was some kind of other form, it would be kind of deceptive of God to not give Moses what He desired. You are saying there is more. While I believe God can be Omnipresent, in this instance, I believe that portion of Himself that is the "person of the Son of God" was localized for this event for Moses.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's the method of contextualizing. God shows Moses what he can grasp.

I'm saying voice is form and body is form but God is far greater than these things. God covers Moses with his hand, and shows his back so he doesn't see his face, because if he does he will die. Does God have a hand, back, face? These are limiting features and God is limitless. Moses did authentically experience these things but we know God didn't reveal all. What Moses saw was what God showed him.

I think the more you are looking for is the Father. The Father did not reveal Himself to Moses. No man has ever seen the Father with their physical eyes. Daniel seen the Father in a vision (Daniel 7, i.e. the "Ancient of Days"). But Daniel did not physically see the Father. No human being except Jesus has physically seen the Father. So yes. There is more to God. It's the Trinity.

 

[DamianWarS]

This sounds like an invention of your own thinking or philosophy.
Where does it say this in the Bible?

Okay. So God did manifest Himself in human form for real? But this was not God's true form?
Moses asked to see His glory. He showed it. If it was some kind of other form, it would be kind of deceptive of God to not give Moses what He desired. You are saying there is more. While I believe God can be Omnipresent, in this instance, I believe that portion of Himself that is the "person of the Son of God" was localized for this event for Moses.

Concepts of God in the bible can be paradoxical (especially anthropomorphic examples), I don't pretend to grasp the answers but if we rest on any it undoubtedly will be a guess.