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Which Perpetrator deserves our mercy: Preacher, Prostitute or Policeman?

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by 2PhiloVoid, Dec 7, 2018 at 8:40 AM.

  1. The Preacher

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. The Prostitute

    1 vote(s)
    16.7%
  3. The Policeman

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. All of the Above

    2 vote(s)
    33.3%
  5. None of the Above

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid ...time and time again! Supporter

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    In the following video, you'll find a professional interview conducted with a prostitute. The interview took place a few decades ago, and for those who aren't familiar with her story, she was known to have been involved with a particular preacher and, at the same time, with a particular policeman.

    For this Ethics/Morality discussion, please watch the video and consider the various players and the moral (and legal) situations presented therein. Then, if you like, please respond anonymously to my poll and share something about your moral reasoning for why you think (or feel) that all, some, or none of the "perpetrators" in the video deserve our empathy, sympathy, and/or mercy. Feel free, as well, to share whatever consequences you think each of the three players in the video should have had to face or not to have faced, or share whatever moral lessons you think we might all learn from this scenario.

    (Warning: Please know that some material in the video could be emotionally triggering for viewers who are sensitive to these sorts of moral and social matters).




    Scripture Key: Romans 3:23
     
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  2. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The lady had three children while doing some of her prostitution activity, if I understand her correctly. And she sold illegal services to a preacher who had taken down another preacher for stuff like that, I think she is saying. And that other preacher's son is the officer who took him down after doing business with her.
    Jesus suffered and died like He did, with hope for any and all of us. So, we need to follow Jesus.

    Now in case any of the three do not change to do good, then they will suffer much more than they deserve, I would say. There will be God's just punishment, but also how sin will ruin them more than they deserve, because sin in Satan's kingdom is not fair.

    Without living in God's love, any of us is suffering and losing so much. Anyone is missing out on how to love.

    And it is not only wrong pleasure. There is betraying of trust involved. To betray is an act of hatred, not only of misguided pleasure seeking. So, surely someone involved in that is missing out on real love and does not know how to love, or at least not as well as we could.

    Jesus said let the one without sin cast the first stone. So . . . I need real correction, not only mercy or consequences.

    Be kind to people, do not assume a minister is so great, but be there for every person, to help anyone become able to know how to love.

    And become able to tell the difference so we aren't fooled into trusting ministers who are not for real. It's their fault if they on purpose betray trust, but I think God makes us able to tell the difference between a genuinely loving person and a betrayer of trust. So, if I am fooled, this is not the fault of the false person. Why can't I tell the difference? If I submit to God in His love with His light, I can see right. And His light will have my attention to what is good, not just busy with pointing at wrong and false people.
     
  3. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I guess the only thing I got out of the whole video is that woman is absolutely right...prostitution should be legalized.

    Oh, also, if you want to watch a woman take her clothes off, buy a video. It's cheaper and the video can't do smarmy talk shows.
     
  4. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid ...time and time again! Supporter

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    Those are some great points for us to remember, com7fy8! :oldthumbsup:

    This is also good advice for us to consider.

    What do you think these individuals could have done different in their lives earlier on in their lives in order to [perhaps] avoid allowing themselves to become embroiled in the webs of sin and its consequences?
     
  5. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid ...time and time again! Supporter

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    How do you figure? Do you think she's right that legalization of prostitution would reduce disease and rape crimes?

    I guess her suggestion would be one form of "applied mercy" to the complicated situation which involved all three individuals in the video, wouldn't it? The only thing is we'd still have the Biblical writers telling us what they've told us. So, somewhere in dealing with this kind of sticky-wicky social and moral situation, we'd have to decide to deal with the Bible and with Christian theology, or maybe even with various types of ethical claims that emanate from various ethical systems of thought, many of which are not even directly related to Christianity.

    On top of all of this........................children were placed at risk by all 3 individuals involved in the video, and somehow I don't think legalization of prostitution will protect children the way they should be protected, as in their being completely and utterly protected.

    If I remember right, the preacher in the video already had a history of buying 'videos,' or something to that effect. I guess having access to pornography wasn't enough for him, but I don't know all that much about him other than what I saw in the new 30 years ago. I don't know the guy or his overall history, so I can't say.

    But I will say that I think it would be much preferable if society simply got rid of all of the smut and other forms of Raunch Culture as best that it can, and that it would also likely be beneficial if it changed its laws to actually encourage and assist people to live morally clean lives [in a Christian sense! (as in, a sense like that directed by Jesus, Peter or Paul)] rather than just.......................'regulating'..............................it all, whatever 'regulating' really means these days. To me, 'regulation' seems to be more or less a legal weasel word of sorts, one befitting Secular Humanism rather than Christianity and Christ-like virtue.

    Anyway, I'm all for attempting to empathize with each of the three individuals in the video. I just don't think empathizing, or even being merciful, includes condoning their behaviors, let alone 'legalizing' prostitution ..................o_O
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018 at 11:43 AM
  6. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't think you would condone their behaviors or legalize prostitution. However, I'm not controlled by a religion which thinks it can make people 'righteous' by passing laws. People who choose to avoid prostitution would not have their lives changed by making it legal.

    Those who do participate, however, would be much, much safer, happier and more secure if it were legal. And the justice system would have more time to deal with actual crime instead of wasting its time trying to enforce religious morals.

    As an anecdote, I once knew a woman who told me that the only thing she could do really well was sex...and the government wouldn't let her make a living from it.

    When you think about it, we let people go into coal mines to make a living by the function of their bodies even if the work damaged their bodies. But for some reason, we think that 'women' shouldn't have the equal opportunity make a living from the function of their bodies. It is that old 'control' thing us men think we should be able to exert over women.
     
  7. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid ...time and time again! Supporter

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    Neither am I controlled by such a religion, zephcom. But neither will I support the push to 'legalize' any form of sexual behavior that goes against what I think is expressed more or less in the Bible.

    I don't agree. Often, many people don't actually know what they're getting themselves into or how to best handle their emotions about something that isn't by all accounts a 'rational' activity (by which I mean 'human sexuality' in general). So, forgive me if I think a laissez-faire approach to this kind of thing just isn't feasible or really effective. Moreover, in the case of the video, there are children involved ...

    I'm pretty sure that just about everybody can do MORE than just have sex. So, again forgive me if I say something to the effect that I think your anecdote provides a pretty poor reason to legalize or condone dysfunctional sexual situations, especially those involving prostitution, in our society.

    ...... What? :dontcare:
     
  8. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think your question has the basic answer >

    prevention.

    But while I have been younger in Jesus, I was able to fail in various ways. But it would have been worse if I had not gotten started with Christ and God's word and being with Jesus people. Plus, I would say God has been correcting me so more and more it is even easy to stay with loving. And loving is so more enjoyable, than selfish pleasure seeking and only pointing at how others are wrong.

    So, I did not do some prevention thing which made sure I would not go the wrong way. But I did go wrong, at times, but God had mercy on me and restored me.

    But if someone has not gotten started with Jesus, this can be why the person does wrong and does not change. And such a person does not have experience of how God's love and peace and joy is; and so the person does not get homesick to get back to God and loving.

    At times, when I even start to get interested in immoral pleasure stuff or self-righteous condemning of others, already I can feel myself being degraded and I right away I can start to get homesick and even be blessed out of it to loving, instead.

    So, I would offer how a person needs to first trust in Jesus, then seek God for real correction and maturing. Because while I have immature character . . . I can get in trouble. And if someone has not even gotten started, "without Me you can do nothing" (in John 15:5).

    So, what really works is however God's grace keeps me and is correcting and curing my character to be pleasing to God and have me loving.
     
  9. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Nor do I think it is the responsibility of government to 'protect' people from not knowing what they are getting into. Once you start that, there could be a ton of things that people would not be allowed to do. For instance, just one person who didn't know that getting a home loan could lead them to losing all their investment if they didn't buy insurance could keep everyone else from being allowed to buy a home.

    The idea that -you- or a bunch of -yous- could decide for everyone what they can and can't do because not everyone is sufficiently capable of knowing what you know is just wrong.

    People should not be legislating morals. And, believe it or not, woman are intelligent enough to decide for themselves if prostitution is something they want to participate in. They don't need either you or me to protect them from themselves.

    The current state of prostitution is unacceptable for anyone with a moral compass. By making it illegal, women can't turn to the law when they are kidnapped, abused, raped or even killed. The law offers them no protection because, as prostitutes, they are themselves criminals.

    Making it legal provides the power of the law to protect both them and their customers. A woman could actually quit without the thug who 'protects' her beating her senseless for suggesting she wasn't going to work anymore.

    I can't even grasp why someone would want to keep prostitution illegal if they had any empathy for human beings at all. But that is just me.
     
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    From a biblical viewpoint, this ain't that hard.

    Who got Christ's worst vilification? Prostitutes or hypocritical clerics?
     
  11. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    When I was in the Philippines (which has an economy the US is very swiftly coming to imitate), I spent some time talking to one "reforming" prostitute about why she did what she did.

    I had found the literacy rate in the Philippines surprisingly higher than I expected. But jobs were hard to come by. I knew a good many college educated computer programmers, architects, engineers, et cetera, making their living running little sari-sari stores or making shoes or clothing. Essentially, it didn't matter how much education you got, it only mattered what your social connections were and what business your father was in. The rich were exceedingly rich and the poor were exceedingly poor, and the thin middle class struggled to have even sanitary drinking water. Yeah, we're getting to that place pretty fast.

    And medical care was strictly pay-as-you-go. A sick person went to the hospital and got a triage-style cursory examination. The doctor told you about how much it would cost to give you any care. Either you had that much cash in your pocket, or you went home. Or died on the hospital steps. Yeah, we're getting there pretty fast.

    So I'm talking to this prostitute who was trying to reform. But she had a medical problem that caused her violent cramps with bloody vomit, and frankly, prostitution was the only job available that paid enough for the doctor visits.
     
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  12. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid ...time and time again! Supporter

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    I don't think we can call prostitution a "job," really. And I don't think we can call either the pimps who oversee some prostitutes, or the 'Johns' who visit them and pay their wages, "hobbyists."

    Frankly, I think it's really sad that women are either forced into prostitution by situations or by slavers ...
     
  13. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    If it were legal, no one could 'force' a woman into prostitution. They could make it attractive enough that some women would accept the position, but they couldn't be forced into it.

    That is the way capitalism works.
     
  14. Nicholas Deka

    Nicholas Deka Proud Citizen of Moralton

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    Why not? It's providing a service for money. I guess if you don't do it regularly it wouldn't be your "job", but you can make a job out of prostitution.

    I know you're not fond of my critiques of the morality of these subjects, so I'm avoiding that aspect out of respect, but these are strange distinctions to make. Why make them?
     
  15. Nicholas Deka

    Nicholas Deka Proud Citizen of Moralton

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    Legalizing prostitution wouldn't solve that problem. Saying "no one could force a woman" is going way too far. I agree it would make things safer for everyone, but it wouldn't eliminate human trafficking completely. A legally responsible cathouse couldn't snatch girls off the street, but abusive husbands and fathers would still sell their wives and daughters. There would still be a black market for it. It would just shrink dramatically.
     
  16. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    It was pretty much a job for them then and there. Each night go to the club where they were paid a small amount to dance and get GIs to buy drinks. Sometimes a GI would pay the girl's "bar fine"--pay the owner of the club about twenty bucks to take the girl out of the club for the rest of the night. She would hope for a generous tip. Or, heck, maybe even a marriage proposal; that happened more often than the PowerBall.

    The next day, it started again.
     
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  17. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    Given that it would just shrink the problem dramatically would be a major plus. The issue of selling women would fall under slavery laws I would think.

    All in all, I suspect more people would be safer with prostitution legalized than they are now. I think that would be a good thing.
     
  18. Nicholas Deka

    Nicholas Deka Proud Citizen of Moralton

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    Like I said, I agree with you generally, I just thought you were overselling it.

    Personally, I've always wondered why it's illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away for free. Seems like nonsense to me.
     
  19. zephcom

    zephcom Well-Known Member

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    I'll run the risk of over selling again...I think the true root of the issue goes to the concept of male domination over women. Carried to extremes, if prostitution were legal, then even wives -could- charge their husbands for sex.

    That would change the dynamics of everything.
     
  20. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I think rather the opposite would happen.
     
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