Which part of us the soul is?

[Tra Phull]

I believe Man is a tripartite entity of spirit, soul and body.
Watchman Nee wrote much about this, not that I can buy into all of his stuff, but the sword of the Spirit does divide between soul and spirit.

I too am curious about the translation of 1 Theses 4:13

 

[Tra Phull]

Have we been JW'ed ?

 

[Tra Phull]

"those who are sleeping in death" is the phrase in . NWT, 1Thessalonians 4:13

All along the WATCHTOWER, princes kept the view

 

[Tra Phull]

I think someone needs to get back to their Kingdom Hall

 

[misput]

It is very simple:
(Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.) explains precisely what a soul consists of and
(Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.) gives the reverse process but of course this will not suffice for those with great minds among us ; )

 

[Andrewn]

I believe Man is a tripartite entity of spirit, soul and body. Watchman Nee wrote much about this, not that I can buy into all of his stuff, but the sword of the Spirit does divide between soul and spirit.

Several of us here are fans of Watchman Nee. But really, I learned similar tripartite theological anthropology in my teens from people who most probably never heard of him. To me, his real contribution isn't the understanding of the soul (he makes occasional mistakes there). His magnificent contribution is the understanding of the human spirit.

Heb 4:12 does indeed point toward a distinction between psyche and pneuma. But this didn't prevent Calvin and others from upholding bipartite theology.

The NT uses the word "psyche" occasionally meaning "nefesh" and other times in reference to the immortal "soul." So, "psyche" may be used in Heb 4:12 with the meaning "nefesh" which can be separated from the spirit.

I really don't have a problem with trichotomy. It's possible for me to see both points of view. I have a holistic understanding of the human person, anyway. The soul and the spirit are connected and the way in which they're connected doesn't make much difference to me.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

I wonder which part of us the soul is.

I believe we have many parts. Everyone has ego(or free will), child, critics and there are also other parts of us and we have our experiences during our life, we have our mind and feelings.
We have also the spirit that is given from above and can be more or less(I believe its pure energy) but the soul is something else. I wonder what is the soul? Does anyone has some insight on this?

I don't think the Bible makes clear distinctions among the terms ego, spirit, soul, and other "parts" of us. Another distinction is among the will, emotions, and thoughts. The overarching teaching in the Bible is that God has created us in his image and likeness to have fellowship with him. Jesus came to restore that fellowship with our soul and spirit, however they are related. John Calvin had a good rule: Go as far as the Bible goes and then stop. We shouldn't let our reason go beyond what he has revealed.

 

[Andrewn]

It is very simple:
(Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.) explains precisely what a soul consists of and

This has been addressed in post #15. It really helps if you read the whole thread before making contributions.

(Ec 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.) gives the reverse process but of course this will not suffice for those with great minds among us ; )

I don't base my theology on the Ketuvim. But is there a reason that you assume that when the spirit returns to God it becomes unconscious?

 

[Andrewn]

I don't think the Bible makes clear distinctions among the terms ego, spirit, soul, and other "parts" of us.

Does anyone here see concepts similar to Freud's id, ego, and superego in the Bible?

 

[Tone]

The NT teaches that the soul is eternal.

Where?

In Psychology and Cognitive Neuroscience

Sounds gnostic...


*Sounds like many people hold on to their pet philosophies...

 

[Tone]

I wonder which part of us the soul is.

I believe we have many parts. Everyone has ego(or free will), child, critics and there are also other parts of us and we have our experiences during our life, we have our mind and feelings.
We have also the spirit that is given from above and can be more or less(I believe its pure energy) but the soul is something else. I wonder what is the soul? Does anyone has some insight on this?

Oh, sorry for failing to give my own answer and focusing on the unpleasantness of others.

Well, my first thought was "When you look in the mirror...there's your soul". But, I lean towards there also being an unseen aspect to it, like personality and such.

 

[Tra Phull]

The NIV also uses "those who sleep in death" in 1 These 4:13, btw.

Why would you consider it Gnostic, Tone, that the soul is immortal? And that Cognitive Neuroscience and Psychology is mentioned?

What is DRIVING you to question the NT saying the soul is immortal?

 

[Tone]

The NIV also uses "those who sleep in death" in 1 These 4:13, btw.

Why would you consider it Gnostic, Tone, that the soul is immortal? And that Cognitive Neuroscience and Psychology is mentioned?

What is DRIVING you to question the NT saying the soul is immortal?

I simply asked where the NT says this...I didn't say whether it does/does not.

As far as the gnosticism goes...I know that Carl Jung was highly influenced by it and I would guess that much more psychology is as well.

 

[Tra Phull]

Rev 6:9-11 describes souls of the dead talking and being talked to

 

[Tone]

Revelation 6
"9And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge those who live on the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed."

Okay, so from this passage you believe that when everybody dies they actually don't die, but simply "rest"? Any other verses?

 

[Tra Phull]

Tone, I realize you were just asking where in the NT is the soul described as immortal, making no claim that it is or Isn't.

As far as similarities of Freud's Id, Ego and Superego, and Jung' s conscious, unconscious and Collective Unconscious being derived from either Gnosticism or the Bible, I don't know.

I think the idea of "show me a scripture that says the soul is immortal" is akin to ,"show me a scripture that says God is Trinity"

And off we go, Johannine Comma and all of that...

So-

"If a man believe in me, even though he die, he shall live forever"

Is where I would start in showing that the soul of a BELIEVER is immortal

 

[Tone]

Okay, so from this passage you believe that when everybody dies they actually don't die, but simply "rest"? Any other verses?

So then, along the lines of the OP, the part of those who were "under the altar" would be the soul...so, which part was/is it? They were/are able to be seen, to speak, to be clothed, and to rest...so, what's the difference from when they lived? Do/did they have blood as well?

 

[Tone]

the soul of a BELIEVER is immortal

Ahhh, yes, the soul of a believer, but not all, correct? And when will we become immortal?


*"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." 1 Corinthians 15:53

**When was John seeing into?

 

[Tra Phull]

I am not trying to show what happens "when EVERYBODY dies" - I am focusing on BELIEVERS

And in Rev 6 passage, these believers are unique in that they are MARTYRS

So I am trying to focus on the passage of "Whoever believes in me, even though he die, he shall live forever"

 

[Tra Phull]

You quote from Paul, and then ask when was John seeing into...

I believe John was seeing, in vision, the souls of martyrs

I do not think they had blood at that time, but I don't see that as germane to immortality of the SOUL

Our bodies will be clothed upon with immortality at some point in the future. Our soul is immortal now.

It is said that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" - I believe at some Pont there is a GLORIFICATION of t by e body, and that this was so even for Jesus Himself. At one point He tells Mary M "Don't touch me, I have not yet ascended" - at another point it's ok for believers to hold Him by the feet.