Which JFK theories do you believe?

[SwordoftheLord]

Except for the mountain of evidence that he was the gunman. Are you aware of how much is there?


Btodd

You mean our Government would never make up or fabricate evidence? Come on now, we should know thanks to Snowden, and released files (Gulf of Tonkin for instance) that our government will easily make up evidence and falsely accuse people countries, etc...

Its funny I have a friend who will talk smack about other countries doing the same thing, but no way would the good ol Government of the USA do anything like that.

 

[Btodd]

No way Oswald on his own pulled off the shots they said he did... I personally believe there was a shooter on the hill, I mean thats the first place they went after the shooting. I personally hold to possibly being 3 shooters (one possibly being the driver) I find it funny that JFK sai there were hidden powers that he was going to tell the American People about and on the way to his next speech he was assassinated.

The 'quote' you're speaking of is not a real quote at all. The one about 'exposing the plot'? That started making the rounds on the internet around 2003 or so in picture memes. Try to find a source of him having ever said that.

These are the things that bug me about conspiracy theories...people are super-duper skeptical of the real account, but a fake quote shows up on the internet, and they're not skeptical at all, because it scratches their itch.


Btodd

 

[Btodd]

You mean our Government would never make up or fabricate evidence? Come on now, we should know thanks to Snowden, and released files (Gulf of Tonkin for instance) that our government will easily make up evidence and falsely accuse people countries, etc...

Its funny I have a friend who will talk smack about other countries doing the same thing, but no way would the good ol Government of the USA do anything like that.

I never said what our government would or wouldn't do, and this is a typical response. "Would do" and "did do" are two entirely different things, and you don't prove the latter by appealing to the former.


Btodd

 

[SwordoftheLord]

I never said what our government would or wouldn't do, and this is a typical response. "Would do" and "did do" are two entirely different things, and you don't prove the latter by appealing to the former.


Btodd

Ok so if someone lies to you numerous times, you just believe them? LOL..... There is so much proof that our government has lied many times in past, so why any differant now?

 

[Btodd]

Ok so if someone lies to you numerous times, you just believe them? LOL..... There is so much proof that our government has lied many times in past, so why any differant now?

This is terrible reasoning. The government isn't some single-headed monster, and the sources of information for the Kennedy assassination aren't solely the government. This happened in public in broad daylight, so all sources need to be examined when trying to determine what happened. You're not using skepticism, you're using cynicism. Skepticism would require evidence for your conclusion, cynicism is just blindly going against the grain.

I have never suggested that anyone 'just believe' anything...I appeal to the evidence. 'Just believe' is not the atheist's mantra, you know.


Btodd

 

[Fireinfolding]

Penn and Teller because they start out on a conspiracy theorist right off the bat on the thought of any a second gunman. When I dont believe Nellie Connally or the two secret service men are conspiracy theorists for their three bullet agreement. They never even go there anyway. What I see and their testimony makes sense, with no mention of a second gunman, it then become a question (after that) as to how (within that time frame with that particular rifle with as difficult as it is to [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] within the frame given. I wouldnt know, I never fired one, but I did watch an attempt where Jesse Ventura was trying to get those rounds off that rifle within the time (but at still) not moving targets using the same kind of rifle as Oswald (but qualified, and having been requalified to do so) and he couldnt do it under 11 seconds. Even if concentrated less on his aim and moreso on speed. He wasnt slack (not to my eye anyway) and He also had mentioned on that video how ...who was it? Some other station (and/or various others) having attempted it and couldnt either. And so for me, three bullets (staying with their witnesses which agree) all within that 6 second time frame pulled off with that rifle and all the rest of it.

Its really not that important to me, this is of carnal things which I am going to make a end of discussing this week and be on my way from here but I wanted to see how far I got with some things. And staying with the witnesses that made the most sense (and were in agreement with what my own eyes were agreeing with accordingly).

 

[Fireinfolding]

Trust me, I have devoured everything in regards to the Kennedy shooting. First shot missed, second hit both, third to Kennedy's head.

I was a markmans in the millitary as was Oswald how is that a good shooter?

Most vids show people just cocking the gun and pulling the trigger three times without the time it takes to follow through on a moving target (which is ridiculous to think that proves anything).

But for example here, at 1:30 Jesse tries the same thing at the same angle (but lacks a moving target even) and cant do it

 

[Fireinfolding]

Penn and Teller? Not exactly proof there, especially in that video IMO. They are nothing more than a sideshow act, and prove it by there setup which isnt correct anyways.. . I have seen some of the best shooters in the world try and pull off the shots and not make it. Including Seals, a Delta Force Operator, 2 competitive gun shooters, and a Marine Force Recon (or Raider as they call them now).. I will try and find the video again on youtube.

I like you

 

[Btodd]

It doesn't bother me if Jesse Ventura can't do it...I think he's a moron anyway. Here you go.

Btodd

 

[Fireinfolding]

It doesn't bother me if Jesse Ventura can't do it...I think he's a moron anyway. Here you go.

Btodd

I dont believe him being a moron according to anyone disqualifies his demonstration. I would still use him for a decent example (better then what you provided). Besides, what you said, says less about him (and more about you) that you would dismiss his demonstration for the reason you gave when he was only being used as an example for a hands on demonstration for this weapon (having been in the millitary himself)

Verses using some side show act (Penn and Teller) to try and demonstate something legitimate

Seriously, did you see how he tried to prove the time on that rifle? I was in the millitary myself that proves squat, Jesse at least made what I believe was the most honest attempt.

 

[Btodd]

I dont believe him being a moron according to anyone disqualifies his demonstration. I would still use him for a decent example (better then what you provided). Besides, what you said, says less about him (and more about you) that you would dismiss his demonstration for the reason you gave when he was only being used as an example for a hands on demonstration for this weapon (having been in the millitary himself)

Verses using some side show act (Penn and Teller) to try and demonstate something legitimate

Seriously, did you see how he tried to prove the time on that rifle? I was in the millitary myself that proves squat, Jesse at least made what I believe was the most honest attempt.

Did you watch the video I posted? You either didn't watch it (since you again referenced Penn and Teller), or you would prefer to believe that since Jesse Ventura can't do it, it negates the example of SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO DID.

Have it your way. I can only provide you with examples of what you say cannot be done, I can't force you to admit you were wrong.


Btodd

 

[Fireinfolding]

Did you watch the video I posted? You either didn't watch it (since you again referenced Penn and Teller), or you would prefer to believe that since Jesse Ventura can't do it, it negates the example of SEVERAL PEOPLE WHO DID.

Have it your way. I can only provide you with examples of what you say cannot be done, I can't force you to admit you were wrong.


Btodd

I cant force you to admit calling someone who is demonstrating something a moron (as some sort of argument) that is kind of moronic in itself.

And that was a much better attempt, why you chose Penn and Teller first was beyond me (that helped nothing at all).

And I dont really have to admit I am wrong when all I am doing is posting videos demonstrating where I might be drawing any present understanding on any topic. I always say I know nothing, but they can be wrong when deomonstrating what can or cannot be donw (someone posted earlier that the Warren report was mistaken on the time) so I have to figure out what is what and that takes some time to sift through. Calling other people morons doesnt help (but I will cut you some slack you are an athiest it is understandable). I refrained doing so with Penn and Teller (just being honest)

Much better video provided for any reconsideration.

 

[Btodd]

I cant force you to admit calling someone who is demonstrating something a moron (as some sort of argument) that is kind of moronic in itself.

And that was a much better attempt, why you chose Penn and Teller first was beyond me (that helped nothing at all).

And I dont really have to admit I am wrong when all I am doing is posting videos demonstrating where I might be drawing any present understanding on any topic. I always say I know nothing, but they can be wrong when deomonstrating what can or cannot be donw (someone posted earlier that the Warren report was mistaken on the time) so I have to figure out what is what and that takes some time to sift through. Calling other people morons doesnt help (but I will cut you some slack you are an athiest it is understandable). I refrained doing so with Penn and Teller (just being honest)

Much better video provided for any reconsideration.

None of that addressed the video that I posted, in which several people were able to fire three shots less than 6 seconds (the actual figure is around 8.3 seconds for the Kennedy assassination), and several were successful in hitting the target more than once (one person hit all three shots).

Case closed on whether or not it could be done. Your admission of such is not necessary, the facts trump your opinion, and were shown multiple times by experiment.


Btodd

 

[Fireinfolding]

None of that addressed the video that I posted, in which several people were able to fire three shots less than 6 seconds (the actual figure is around 8.3 seconds for the Kennedy assassination), and several were successful in hitting the target more than once (one person hit all three shots).

Case closed on whether or not it could be done. Your admission of such is not necessary, the facts trump your opinion, and were shown multiple times by experiment.


Btodd

I think you missed the fact I stated the video was much better for my reconsideration,
but your admission isnt necessary either. That fact trumps you overlooking that

 

[Btodd]

I think you missed the fact I stated the video was much better for my reconsideration,
but your admission isnt necessary either. That fact trumps you overlooking that

Reading that statement thrown in at the end, it didn't even make sense to me what you were saying. Were you admitting that several people in that experiment were able to recreate Oswald's shots in even LESS TIME than you said was possible?

In other words, did the FACT that several people did it make you 'reconsider' your stance that it could not have been done? That's a simple, straightforward question.


Btodd

 

[Fireinfolding]

Reading that statement thrown in at the end, it didn't even make sense to me what you were saying. Were you admitting that several people in that experiment were able to recreate Oswald's shots in even LESS TIME than you said was possible?

In other words, did the FACT that several people did it make you 'reconsider' your stance that it could not have been done? That's a simple, straightforward question.


Btodd

Now that you wanna play games I wont give you any of the satisfaction you seek, you will just have to accept what I gave ya.

Begging for it doesnt become you

 

[Fireinfolding]

Case closed on whether or not it could be done. Your admission of such is not necessary, the facts trump your opinion, and were shown multiple times by experiment.


Btodd

Yeah it is to you

 

[Btodd]

Now that you wanna play games I wont give you any of the satisfaction you seek, you will just have to accept what I gave ya.

Begging for it doesnt become you

It would be satisfying to hear you admit that the experiment showed that multiple people recreated Oswald's three shots, but I understand why it is difficult to do an about-face.


Btodd

 

[Fireinfolding]

It would be satisfying to hear you admit that the experiment showed that multiple people recreated Oswald's three shots, but I understand why it is difficult to do an about-face.


Btodd

Thanks for understanding
(and thats still begging)

 

[crjmurray]

There's no way of knowing which theories were true-only God and the people involved know. But of all the theories, which ones (or combination) are the most likely true?

There definitley were cover-ups, not only because of what happened with Lee harvey oswald, but also because of other facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_assassination_conspiracy_theories

Read those parts of the article.
Allegations of witness tampering, intimidation, and foul play[edit]
Alleged witness intimidation

Also, I believe the Mafia was definitely involved. The mafia didnt like him because his father was connected with them and used that money to help JFK get to power, but his brother went after them. It makes sense to believe the theory that the mafia hated Kennedy because they felt betrayed. Some Mafia people even claim they were involved. http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/john-kennedy-assassination-confession-mafia/2014/11/20/id/608736/

The mafia had connections with many other famous people, including musicians like Sinatra, so its not far fetched to think JFK had connections with them.

I believe different groups were involved with it, but I do believe any one of the conspiracy theories that involve the government and JFK (including the "shadow government" and the military) are probably true. The problem with the New Orleans and Cuban theories about Kennedy is that it doesnt make sense how the Mafia was involved (strongest evidence for that exists) yet they had connections with other random groups. I think Oswald and the Mafia did it egged on by various groups. He was connected with Russians, which is why I believe the Soviets were involved too.

The one where Oswald acted alone. And left his fingerprints on the weapon. And the shell casings. And ordered the murder weapon. And had pictures of himself with the weapon. And had a motive. And had previously attempted to assassinate a public figure. And then he fled the scene (only employee to do so). And then he shot Tippet. And then he was caught. Seems pretty open and shut to me.