Which is the LAW of GOD?

[pescador]

Who are these people? and which law is Paul referring to?

2 Corinthians 9:20 ...to those who are under the law, as under the law,that I might win those who are under the law;


And who are these people, and what law are they without?

2 Corinthians 9:21 to those who are without law, as without law

1) Jews (under the Mosaic law)
2) Greeks, a.k.a., Gentiles (without the Mosaic law)

 

[W2L]

1) Jews (under the Mosaic law)
2) Greeks, a.k.a., Gentiles (without the Mosaic law)

Thank you. I need Soyeong to answer the question however.

 

[Porque77]

The Bible tells us that Jesus was born under the Law (Galatians 4:4) and according to the Law, it is sinful to add to or subtract from what God had commanded them (Deuteronomy 4:2, Deuteronomy 10:13),

The true Law of God are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. And this is the Law that Jesus taught and complied. Jesus did not keep the Old Testament precepts that commanded men to do harm and to kill people.

Jesus abolished the commandment that commanded men to apply an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, because Jesus said "whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also," then no man should injure or kill other men. Therefore, the "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was annulled by Jesus:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to do harm and to kill people, because Jesus, when the Jews brought before him a woman accused of adultery, said to throw the first stone against the woman any man who had never sinned. Let's see:

"But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst". (Juan 8:3-12)

As you see, Jesus said: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her". So no man should kill other men, and nor no man should have killed other men in any age, for all men are sinners.

And Jesus, who is the only one free from sin, did not condemn the woman either:

"And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more". (Juan 8:3-12)

You must understand that Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to kill people, since Jesus abolished from the old testament all the commandments that were not true Law of God, but precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish is the Law of the Gospel

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

 

[Porque77]

Clearly God would not have commanded His people to make offerings if that was not something He wanted done, so the point being made is not that God didn't want His people to make offerings, but that the offerings themselves were not the object of what God desired, but were the means to what He what desired............

What you say is not true. The scriptures tell us that God did not want sacrifices and did not command sacrifices:

"Sacrifice and offering thou hast no delight in; Mine ears hast thou opened: Burnt-offering and sin-offering hast thou not required" (Psalm 40:6).

Hosea tells us: "for faithful love is what pleases me, not sacrifice; knowledge of God, not burnt offerings" (Hosea 6: 6).

Jesus also tells us: "And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless"(Matthew 12: 7).

 

[Porque77]

Paul said he was not without God's Law in a parallel statement to saying that he was under the Law of Christ, so there isn't any room to use that to say that he is without God's Law. Jesus affirmed the Law and the Prophets, so there isn't any room to say that they are the precepts of men........

Paul was under the Law of Christ, which is the true Law that was given by God to men in Moses times. Jesus said he had not come to abolish the Law and the prophets, but the Law and the prophets is the Law of Christ, which is the true Law that was given by God in the time of Moses.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel).

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

 

[Soyeong]

Paul was under the Law of Christ, which is the true Law that was given by God to men in Moses times. Jesus said he had not come to abolish the Law and the prophets, but the Law and the prophets is the Law of Christ, which is the true Law that was given by God in the time of Moses.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel).

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Unless you think that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as in disagreement about what conduct we should have, then you should agree that the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit, which is the same as the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. Jesus said he came only to do the Father's will (John 6:38) that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father (John 14:23-24), and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). So if Paul was under the Law of Christ, then he was also under the Mosaic Law, and indeed according to Acts 21:24, he continued to live in obedience to it, in Romans 3:31, he said that our faith upholds it, and in Romans 7:22, he said that he delighted in obeying it. I have demonstrated that none of Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, or John 8:3-11 speak against obeying any of the Mosaic Law, so he was no nullifying anything in the Mosaic Law. Jesus said he came not to abolish the Mosaic Law, so he did not abolish any of it, and to interpret him as doing so is contrary to his words. Rather, Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law by causing God's will as made known in the Law to be obeyed as it was originally intended. The premise that there are laws in the Mosaic Law that were not commanded by God is unsupported.

 

[Porque77]

Unless you think that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as in disagreement about what conduct we should have, then you should agree that the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit, which is the same as the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. Jesus said he came only to do the Father's will (John 6:38) .......

So is. That is precisely what I am saying.

The problem is what you call "Mosaic Law", for you say:

and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). So if Paul was under the Law of Christ, then he was also under the Mosaic Law, ................

It is that the Law of Christ is the Law that had really been given to Moses. The Old Testament commandments that commanded death sentences, wars, genocide, sacrifices and commandments that permitted slavery, were not commandments of the Law that God had given to Moses. Those commandments that are contrary to the Law of Christ were only precepts of men, because the Law of God was changed by the lying pen of the scribes, as the prophets tell us:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

I have demonstrated that none of Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, or John 8:3-11 speak against obeying any of the Mosaic Law, so he was no nullifying anything in the Mosaic Law.........

Jesus was not nullifying anything in the true Law given to Moses. But Jesus did annul the Old Testament commandments that were not of the Law that God had really given to Moses, but precepts of men, since Jesus annuled the commandments of death sentences, wars, genocides, slavery, and sacrifices, and taught us the true commandments of the Law actually given by God to Moses, which are the commandments of the Gospel.

Jesus said he came not to abolish the Mosaic Law, so he did not abolish any of it,............ Rather, Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law.........

Jesus did not abolish anything of the Law that was actually given to Moses, because He Himself said that He had not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets. But the Law that God gave to Moses are not the Old Testament commandments that commanded men to do harm and to kill people, wars, genocide, slavery, and sacrifices. That is why Jesus annuled these commandments.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God, because Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel. And this is the Law that Jesus Christ fulfilled, that is the true Law that God really gave to Moses.

The premise that there are laws in the Mosaic Law that were not commanded by God is unsupported.

Yes it is supported, because the Old Testament commandments that commanded men to apply death penalties, wars, genocides, slavery and sacrifices, were annulled by Jesus because they were not actually God's commandments, since Jesus annulled them when He had not come to annul the Law of God. So all those commandments that Jesus annuled were only precepts of men.

 

[FredVB]

God did not use the sacrifices, because God did not want sacrifices, nor did He command sacrifices:

"Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: "Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh. For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices". (Jeremiah 7:21-22).

"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?" (Isaiah 1: 11-12).

"Sacrifice and offering thou hast no delight in; Mine ears hast thou opened: Burnt-offering and sin-offering hast thou not required" (Psalm 40:6).

Hosea tells us: "for faithful love is what pleases me, not sacrifice; knowledge of God, not burnt offerings" (Hosea 6: 6).

Jesus also tells us: "And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless"(Matthew 12: 7).

And the letter to the Hebrews also says:

"Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings thou hast not desired, but a body hast thou prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings thou hast taken no pleasure. Then I said, 'Lo, I have come to do thy will, O God,' as it is written of me in the roll of the book." When he said above, "Thou hast neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law)" (Hebrews 10: 5-10).

You see what a contradiction is found here between these earlier texts and laws on the sacrifices of the Old Testament, for there are whole chapters dedicated to sacrifices and burnt offerings, saying that God had commanded, however, the prophets tell us that God did not command sacrifices..., Jesus tells us that God does not want sacrifices... and the letter to the Hebrews says: "Thou hast neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law)".

With such rejection of the counsel of the rest of the Bible, there isn't such thorough checking of the context of verses used still, and those won't be understood then so well with such rejection. The context of such verses shows that it was offensive rebellion from the people of Israel of the things of Yahweh required of them, that such sacrificing was useless to him, then in that case killing of animals is horrible without any justification, and would be abominable. But the rest of the scriptures, which are being considered, show how there was reason for Yahweh accepting sacrifice, for the people of Israel to know the need of atonement for them, though it was the effectiveness of the atonement of Christ for them that applies. See here just the context of those verses that were lifted in isolation from Jeremiah chapter 7, there is such rebellion from the people of Israel, as it is the case in the other scripture passages that were used, that explains such sacrifices were not acceptable and so were abominable to Yahweh, for it was just killing as a matter of routine, that was ineffective that way. Certainly the sacrifices should not go on still, animals don't need to still be killed for us.

Jeremiah 7:8-20
Behold, you trust in lying words, that can’t profit. Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and burn incense to Baal, and walk after other gods that you have not known, and come and stand before me in this house, which is called by my name, and say, ‘We are delivered;’ that you may do all these abominations? Has this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, I, even I, have seen it,” says Yahweh.
“But go now to my place which was in Shiloh, where I caused my name to dwell at the first, and see what I did to it for the wickedness of my people Israel. Now, because you have done all these works,” says Yahweh, “and I spoke to you, rising up early and speaking, but you didn’t hear; and I called you, but you didn’t answer: therefore will I do to the house which is called by my name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave to you and to your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. I will cast you out of my sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, even the whole offspring of Ephraim.
“Therefore don’t pray for this people, neither lift up a cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me; for I will not hear you. Don’t you see what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead the dough, to make cakes to the queen of the sky, and to pour out drink offerings to other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. Do they provoke me to anger? says Yahweh. “Don’t they provoke themselves, to the confusion of their own faces?”
Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh: “Behold, my anger and my wrath shall be poured out on this place, on man, and on animal, and on the trees of the field, and on the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.”

Knowing that we really need atonement from our sinful lives is needed, Christ came for that and is effective in that for us, we are lost and perish with everlasting judgment on us otherwise. It is still to separate us from our sins, so we are not to go on sinning from that. Godly qualities should grow in us, such as compassion, among further things. There shouldn't be limit to what such godliness would grow to, as any limit is arbitrary compared to such that is unlimited with Yahweh. So we should not go on with any harm or contribution to any killing. So you should have no such contribution to any life being taken.

You haven't said where any that believe what you are saying are congregating. That information would be desired.

 

[JWO]

Matthew 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
...
Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

 

[Soyeong]

Matthew 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
...
Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

It was common practice in Messiah's day for rabbis to quote the rabbis who came before them to give authority to what they were saying. The Talmud is full of examples of this, where they quote rabbi so and so as saying this, but rabbi such and such said something else. However, Jesus did not follow this practice, but spoke on his on his own authority, and this is what is meant by saying that he spoke as one having authority, and not like the scribes. On the other hand, the Bible presents itself as directly giving the words of God instead of relying on man's authority.

 

[Porque77]

The context of such verses shows that it was offensive rebellion from the people of Israel of the things of Yahweh required of them, that such sacrificing was useless to him, then in that case killing of animals is horrible without any justification, and would be abominable. But the rest of the scriptures, which are being considered, show how there was reason for Yahweh accepting sacrifice, for the people of Israel to know the need of atonement for them, .............

That is what you interpret, but the scriptures do not tell us that God did not want sacrifices for one offensive rebellion from the people of Israel. The scriptures tell us simply that God did not want sacrifices, nor did He command sacrifices:

"Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: "Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh. For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices". (Jeremiah 7:21-22).

"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?" (Isaiah 1: 11-12).

"Sacrifice and offering thou hast no delight in; Mine ears hast thou opened: Burnt-offering and sin-offering hast thou not required" (Psalm 40:6).

Hosea tells us: "for faithful love is what pleases me, not sacrifice; knowledge of God, not burnt offerings" (Hosea 6: 6).

Jesus also tells us: "And if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless"(Matthew 12: 7).

And the letter to the Hebrews also says:

"Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, "Sacrifices and offerings thou hast not desired, but a body hast thou prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings thou hast taken no pleasure. Then I said, 'Lo, I have come to do thy will, O God,' as it is written of me in the roll of the book." When he said above, "Thou hast neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law)" (Hebrews 10: 5-10).

........ though it was the effectiveness of the atonement of Christ for them that applies...........

JESUS CHRIST WAS NOT COMING TO PAY FOR OUR SINS, because the Gospel teaches us that Jesus Christ will pay each according to his works:

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works". (Matthew 16:27)

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation". (John 5: 26-29).

Then, JESUS CHRIST DID NOT COME TO PAY FOR OUR SINS. Jesus Christ came to teach us the true commandments of God, which are the commandments that Jesus Christ teaches in the Gospel and which abolished all the precepts of the Old Testament that commanded death sentences (human sacrifices), wars, genocides where men killed men, women and children, and other sacrifices that were a burden to the people that no one could bear.

 

[MaggieMargaret]

In the strictest sense of the Hebrew word for 'Law' (Torah) Torah means 'instruction.'

Any God-given instruction from the OT or NT can be seen as 'Law.'

No the law is WITHIN YOU and will manifest thru YOUR OWN SEARCH and not any other way. There is no god given instruction in the torah or bible in any way.. only human accounts and many are of those accounts are in error.. big time. YOU ARE THE WORD OF GOD.. God must work thru the humans on this world.. what of him do you manifest?

 

[Porque77]

Matthew 5:1 And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
...
Matthew 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

It was common practice in Messiah's day for rabbis to quote the rabbis who came before them to give authority to what they were saying. The Talmud is full of examples of this, where they quote rabbi so and so as saying this, but rabbi such and such said something else. However, Jesus did not follow this practice, but spoke on his on his own authority, and this is what is meant by saying that he spoke as one having authority, and not like the scribes.

Jesus taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes, because Jesus taught the true Law of God, yet the scribes taught the commandments of men, because the Law of God was changed by the scribes that changed the Law of God into a lie, as the prophet Jeremiah said:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

On the other hand, the Bible presents itself as directly giving the words of God instead of relying on man's authority.

The Bibles have many commandments that were not given by God, but were commandments of men, because the Law of God was changed by the scribes that changed the Law of God into a lie, as the prophet Jeremiah said:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

 

[Soyeong]

Jesus taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes, because Jesus taught the true Law of God, yet the scribes taught the commandments of men, because the Law of God was changed by the scribes that changed the Law of God into a lie, as the prophet Jeremiah said:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

In the Talmud, you will find it saying thing like "rabbi so and so said this, but rabbi such and such said this", so it will give you a long list of what various rabbis have weighed in on the matter, and this is how rabbis in the 1st century taught, however, Jesus didn't follow this practice, but rather he spoke on his own authority. You can read the Talmud to find all sort of traditions that are not found anywhere in the Mosaic Law, which were being taught during the 1st century, and which Jesus taught against in favor of upholding the Mosaic Law. You need to address the fact that the role of these man-made laws played a major role in the discussion about laws in the NT, so there is not room to ignore them in when they undermine your position. All of the Mosaic Law teaches about the Messiah, so there is nothing in it that was not commanded by God. You are again twisting that verse to make it support a position that it does not.

 

[Kutte]

In the strictest sense of the Hebrew word for 'Law' (Torah) Torah means 'instruction.'

Any God-given instruction from the OT or NT can be seen as 'Law.'

Steve,
Some of the so-called "God-given" instruction in the OT are simply man-made inventions such as in
DT 21:10-14: With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to kidnap "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their trial wives. If, after having sexual relations a man has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.
My best

 

[Porque77]

All of the Mosaic Law teaches about the Messiah, so there is nothing in it that was not commanded by God. You are again twisting that verse to make it support a position that it does not.

You have to understand that in the Old Testament there are written many commandments that were only precepts of men because Jesus abolished them. All that Jesus abolished from the Old Testament were only precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the Law of God.

Kutte is right when he says this:

Steve,
Some of the so-called "God-given" instruction in the OT are simply man-made inventions such as in
DT 21:10-14: With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to kidnap "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their trial wives. If, after having sexual relations a man has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go......

And the mandates that ordered men to harm and kill people are also man-made inventions, because the Law of God ordered: YOU WILL NOT KILL, and the Law of God was given forever, as the scriptures say:

" Faithful are all His commandments , They stand fast for ever and ever , done in truth and uprightness. Sent redemption to his people, for ever he has commanded his covenant " (Psalm 111:7-9 )

" From your decrees I have known for some time that has established forever " (Psalm 119 : 152) .

 

[Soyeong]

You have to understand that in the Old Testament there are written many commandments that were only precepts of men because Jesus abolished them. All that Jesus abolished from the Old Testament were only precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the Law of God.

You have to understand that everything in the OT was commanded by God and that Jesus said nothing to abolish anything in the OT. For example in Matthew 5:43, Jesus spoke against the teachings of men that were teaching that we should hate our enemy, but the OT does not command us to hate our enemy, so he could not have been speaking against what it commanded. Please address this fact.

Kutte is right when he says this:

And the mandates that ordered men to harm and kill people are also man-made inventions, because the Law of God ordered: YOU WILL NOT KILL, and the Law of God was given forever, as the scriptures say:

" Faithful are all His commandments , They stand fast for ever and ever , done in truth and uprightness. Sent redemption to his people, for ever he has commanded his covenant " (Psalm 111:7-9 )

" From your decrees I have known for some time that has established forever " (Psalm 119 : 152) .

How do you know that the precept that to kill is not one of the man-made precepts? It would be rather silly to translate it as the command not to kill because in the same book, God commanded the killing of animals, such as with killing the Passover lamb and also prescribed the death penalty for breaking certain laws, and later God commanded the execution of people because of what they have done. Rather, the word used describes a particular type of killing, which is why many translations translate it as "thou shalt not murder".

 

[Soyeong]

Steve,
Some of the so-called "God-given" instruction in the OT are simply man-made inventions such as in
DT 21:10-14: With the Lord's approval, the Israelites are allowed to kidnap "beautiful women" from the enemy camp to be their trial wives. If, after having sexual relations a man has "no delight" in his wife, he can simply let her go.
My best

I recommend this article or the humanitarian character of those verses:

remarkable

 

[Porque77]

You have to understand that everything in the OT was commanded by God and that Jesus said nothing to abolish anything in the OT.

That's not correct, because the Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Now I also remember the Law of Jesus Christ expressed in commandments, as the Gospel teaches:

"And behold, one came to him and said, Teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why askest thou me concerning that which is good? One there is who is good: but if thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? And Jesus said, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother; and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I observed: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wouldest be perfect, go, sell that which thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. But when the young man heard the saying, he went away sorrowful; for he was one that had great possessions" (Matthew 19: 16-22

And this law and these commandments are in effect for all peoples.

However, no one is under the laws of the Old Testament that were abolished by Jesus Christ, because those laws were not true Law of God, but precepts of men. We are all under the Law and the commandments of Christ, which are the only true Law of God.

 

[pescador]

If you put yourself under the law -- any biblical/spiritual law -- and call yourself a Christian, you are throwing the new covenant established by Jesus' blood in the garbage.