Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

[jochanaan]

Obvious some are into Law more than Grace.

What are you saying? That I am not saved because I keep this particular Law? Or that I believe that my own Sabbath-keeping saves me? I have defended myself against those charges too many times to want to have to do it again, but for your benefit here it is: I do NOT believe that anything I do, including keeping the Sabbath no matter how stringently, will save me. Only Jesus' sacrifice enables me to be sure I am going to Heaven to be with the Lord for ever. In gratitude for this salvation, I willingly submit to His commands that give life and ensure liberty and grace in this life. One of these is to set aside every seventh day to rest from my normal work and draw close to my Creator and Father. My Sabbathkeeping is a result, not a prerequisite, of my acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Answer me this with a Yes or a No: Do you, or do you not, accept me as a brother in Christ? If Yes, then as a brother I ask you not to continue such judgmental comments as the one I've quoted, that give the lie to my repeated affirmations that God has saved me by His grace alone. If No, then no further discussion is possible between you and me.

Yes, I am angry. Yes, I am making this a personal issue. But I am sick and tired of such comments as the one I've quoted. If you think I and other Sabbathkeepers are not saved, tell us so in so many words. (I have never said you are not saved, and I am not saying so now.) If not, then again I ask you to refrain from these accusations.

 

[JimfromOhio]

What are you saying? That I am not saved because I keep this particular Law? Or that I believe that my own Sabbath-keeping saves me? I have defended myself against those charges too many times to want to have to do it again, but for your benefit here it is: I do NOT believe that anything I do, including keeping the Sabbath no matter how stringently, will save me. Only Jesus' sacrifice enables me to be sure I am going to Heaven to be with the Lord for ever. In gratitude for this salvation, I willingly submit to His commands that give life and ensure liberty and grace in this life. One of these is to set aside every seventh day to rest from my normal work and draw close to my Creator and Father. My Sabbathkeeping is a result, not a prerequisite, of my acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord.

Answer me this with a Yes or a No: Do you, or do you not, accept me as a brother in Christ? If Yes, then as a brother I ask you not to continue such judgmental comments as the one I've quoted, that give the lie to my repeated affirmations that God has saved me by His grace alone. If No, then no further discussion is possible between you and me.

Yes, I am angry. Yes, I am making this a personal issue. But I am sick and tired of such comments as the one I've quoted. If you think I and other Sabbathkeepers are not saved, tell us so in so many words. (I have never said you are not saved, and I am not saying so now.) If not, then again I ask you to refrain from these accusations.

I never mentioned "Salvation". All I was referring to is legalism of Sabbath in my spiritual belief. This is called debating.

My main focus is this: this is about respecting the "conscience of believers" of those who believe certain doctrines that you do not agree with. Romans 14:5 "One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." 1 Corinthians 10:28-29 "both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience' sake, the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?"

Earlier in this thread, I was explaining to those who believe in the legalism view of Sabbath should respect those who do NOT practice as they believe.

I respect those who practice the Sabbath but I am upset at those who do not respect the way I believe in my view of Sabbath. Beliefs that impact people's lives and the Church, but with which there can be sincere disagreements. They are important; Christians might argue for them. These are theological ideas with which there can be great latitude of belief such as this issue especially those who follow Sabbath (i.e. SDA and similar). This is often between God and the Believer. As long as we have accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior by responding to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and Repent for our sins. There are many denominations because there are Christians who will follow their conscience, feelings, beliefs and personal worship preferences. I don't have problems with those who belong to SDA, in fact, I have friends who are members and we get along just fine. This is between God and each individual believer. There are different preferences of beliefs and different style of worship. Some prefer one worship style while other prefer another worship style. The key is that we must worship God in Spirit with other believers regardless our "personal" opinion or loyalty to our denominations (or non-denomination).

 

[JimfromOhio]

Sabbath threads have been going for so long and I noticed from the list of posters who posted the most are SDA and similar denominations "defending" the doctrine.

I truly believe that we should drop this and focus on what really matters. Spirit-filled Believers are those who are spiritual with spiritual attitudes of our hearts that we let the Holy Spirit do what He will through us. Spirit-lead is outlined in Galatians 5:22-23 "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Ephesians 4:3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

 

[ThreeAM]

Sabbath threads have been going for so long and I noticed from the list of posters who posted the most are SDA and similar denominations "defending" the doctrine.

I truly believe that we should drop this and focus on what really matters. Spirit-filled Believers are those who are spiritual with spiritual attitudes of our hearts that we let the Holy Spirit do what He will through us. Spirit-lead is outlined in Galatians 5:22-23 "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control." Ephesians 4:3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Jim I post to clear up errors posted by Sunday Keepers like yourself. It would however help the bond of peace if you would refrain from making blanket statements accusing people or denominations of being legalist.


Peace Brother.

 

[Easystreet]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?"

Saturday

 

[Easystreet]

Love does not act unbecomingly. Discussing a subject should not be a test of love because in the Christian family we hold to some different views.

Allowing for difference is Ok, But compromising on Who Jesus Is and His purpose (God elected Him to Die for Our Sin) would be a topic to have some emotions on and even that for the mature believer on can take a positional slap on the cheek and then turn the other as well.

We need to lighten up and let other's have differences. We can then open the Bible and, without rancor, share why we believe as we do and then let the other person do the same.

Believe me a argument can be constructive and beneficial to all involved if done in love. Just because a discussion is called an argument does not mean it is wrong unless the argument becomes selfish, immature, and filled with belittling comments.

I get my feathers ruffled here and there but as I have grown older I have learned to flow and give - not agree - but agree when I do agree. Now that is profound isn't it.

There is no doubt that everyone discussing a hot topic like this one can be done in Love and not wear our feeling on our sleeves.

Thanks for letting me share and I love everyone in Christ for out of Christ I would most likely be your enemy and hate you. All glory, praise, and honor to "our" Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

Amen.

 

[jochanaan]

I never mentioned "Salvation". All I was referring to is legalism of Sabbath in my spiritual belief. This is called debating...

But saying I'm "more into law than into grace" sure sounds like you were questioning my salvation. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but as I said, I've heard such comments so many times they've rubbed me a little raw.

I respect those who practice the Sabbath but I am upset at those who do not respect the way I believe in my view of Sabbath...

Actually, I respect you and your beliefs a lot. If I didn't, I wouldn't have let my anger show as I did. But your comment was NOT respectful. It went beyond good debating tactics to what looked like a personal attack. I know you didn't mean it that way, but please, in the future, think before you post such things if you want the respect you say you do.

 

[jochanaan]

Love does not act unbecomingly. Discussing a subject should not be a test of love because in the Christian family we hold to some different views.

Allowing for difference is Ok, But compromising on Who Jesus Is and His purpose (God elected Him to Die for Our Sin) would be a topic to have some emotions on and even that for the mature believer on can take a positional slap on the cheek and then turn the other as well.

We need to lighten up and let other's have differences. We can then open the Bible and, without rancor, share why we believe as we do and then let the other person do the same.

Believe me a argument can be constructive and beneficial to all involved if done in love. Just because a discussion is called an argument does not mean it is wrong unless the argument becomes selfish, immature, and filled with belittling comments.

I get my feathers ruffled here and there but as I have grown older I have learned to flow and give - not agree - but agree when I do agree. Now that is profound isn't it.

There is no doubt that everyone discussing a hot topic like this one can be done in Love and not wear our feeling on our sleeves.

Thanks for letting me share and I love everyone in Christ for out of Christ I would most likely be your enemy and hate you. All glory, praise, and honor to "our" Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ.

Amen.

Thank you, Gordon. I agree that in most circumstances we should conduct ourselves differently than I did. But we all have our breaking points. JimfromOhio just happened to catch me at mine; as I've said, I've defended myself against the charge of legalism too many times not to be angry and saddened when I get charged with it again, especially from someone whose arguments are as well-thought as his usually are.

 

[ThreeAM]

But saying I'm "more into law than into grace" sure sounds like you were questioning my salvation. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but as I said, I've heard such comments so many times they've rubbed me a little raw.

Actually, I respect you and your beliefs a lot. If I didn't, I wouldn't have let my anger show as I did. But your comment was NOT respectful. It went beyond good debating tactics to what looked like a personal attack. I know you didn't mean it that way, but please, in the future, think before you post such things if you want the respect you say you do.

I totally agree with you Jochanaan. We time after time tell others we cannot be saved by our own works. We tell others that we are save only through the grace of Jesus Christ our Savior. We tell them that we try to obey God by trying to keep His comandments because we love Him not because we think it will save us because we know it won't. Yet peole like Jim continue to point fingers and make accusations of legalism. I for one am highly offended by that type of behavior. Legalism is the belief that our personal works will somehow earn us salvation. That is ridiculous. Jim seems to love throwing out that "strawman" when his scriptural reasoning falls woefully short. It's just sad.

 

[JimfromOhio]

If we can find out what we dwell over, we will know what kind of a Christian we are and what kind of a heart we have. It is better to judge ourselves (including ME) before somebody else does it because the criticism of others is not always accurate but God sometimes WILL criticizes us through other people. "Each one should test his own actions. . ."(Galatians 6:4a). There are times when our honest expression of an opinion will be misinterpreted, our motive and heart misread. This is when we are to examine our heart and review our form of our expression to make sure that our future words will be spoken or written in Christ-like love.

Next time I see someone post another Sabbath thread, I will see who started it and of course, finding the motives by reading the poster's words. (Many times I see who started the thread and read their words, makes me think that they not really debating but rather to see that they are right and others are wrong). People who read will interpret differently depending on their background and experiences in such doctrines.

 

[jochanaan]

If we can find out what we dwell over, we will know what kind of a Christian we are and what kind of a heart we have. It is better to judge ourselves (including ME) before somebody else does it because the criticism of others is not always accurate but God sometimes WILL criticizes us through other people. "Each one should test his own actions. . ."(Galatians 6:4a). There are times when our honest expression of an opinion will be misinterpreted, our motive and heart misread. This is when we are to examine our heart and review our form of our expression to make sure that our future words will be spoken or written in Christ-like love...

Jim, that's all very well, but when I say something that actually hurts someone, I apologize.

As for me, I have prayed and asked God to show me if I have said anything here that I shouldn't have, and I still feel I have nothing to apologize for. Perhaps my anger seemed inappropriate, but as I said, we all have our breaking points, and "Obviously some are into Law more than Grace", coming as it did on top of numerous past similar comments from others, pushed me past mine. I regret this, but what could I do?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Jim, that's all very well, but when I say something that actually hurts someone, I apologize.

As for me, I have prayed and asked God to show me if I have said anything here that I shouldn't have, and I still feel I have nothing to apologize for. Perhaps my anger seemed inappropriate, but as I said, we all have our breaking points, and "Obviously some are into Law more than Grace", coming as it did on top of numerous past similar comments from others, pushed me past mine. I regret this, but what could I do?

I apologize for any misunderstanding too. I enjoy debating (up to a point). Forgive me brother !

 

[jochanaan]

I apologize for any misunderstanding too. I enjoy debating (up to a point). Forgive me brother !

Of course. And thank you.

 

[UUall]

Hello Jim fom Ohio
Grace and the law cannot be separated. The law and the testimony cannot be separated. Archie and Edith can be separated. Mickey and Minnie. Butch and Sundance. Boogie and Bacall can be separated. Mickey and Willie. (maybe) The "Babe" and bonds. They can be separated (maybe). How you say? By their works i say. One out of a period of ignorance. The other out of a period of enlightenment. Should he seek!

 

[Cliff2]

Saturday

Correct, Saturday is the 7th day sabbath of the Bible.

No one even after 1,800 plus posts have shown otherwise.

Some have made conclusion that it is not so but have not come up with a text to show they have any Biblical texts that show it has been changed.

Until we get a text that says the first day of the week is the Sabbath why should we disregard what the Bible says?

 

[GeorgeE]

Everyday

Psalm 118:24 (King James Version)

http://www.biblegateway.com/help/faq/?id=2#10
http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=34 http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=24 http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=2
This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

 

[visionary]

Everyday

Psalm 118:24 (King James Version)

http://www.biblegateway.com/help/faq/?id=2#10
http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=34 http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=24 http://www.biblegateway.com/bg_versions/bgclick.php?what=2
This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

true... just not as blessed or hallowed as the one the Lord set apart and santified though.

 

[Cliff2]

Everyday

Psalm 118:24 (King James Version)



This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week.

The Lord made every day, the 7th day the Lord made holy.

 

[Cliff2]

true... just not as blessed or hallowed as the one the Lord set apart and santified though.

You are right.

No where do we see that the Lord has blessed another day for us to keep holy.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

orignally posted by tall73

Originally Posted by DrBubbaLove
Ok, so it seems the 7th day position is not that the Apostles were not celebrating the Lord's day (Sunday, which would be hard to deny given the historical evidence), but that they were doing both and that the Church later phased out/replaced the Saturday Sabbath with Sunday only.

Since it is admitted the Apostles did indeed celebrate the Lord’s day, what if anything does your Church do now on that day? And furthermore, since the early Church appeared to have daily worship, a daily celebration of the death and resurrection of our Lord, what does your Church do daily?

Actually I am afraid you have missed our view. You might want to read the whole thread. Here is our view.

A. The apostles made no mention of replacing Sabbath with Sunday. Nor did they make any reference to Sunday being holy, or to observing it. Most in fact would not even see the reference in Revelation 1 as being about Sunday, though some might, or some might see it as a reference to either the eschatological day of the Lord or to Easter. Most would see it as a reference to Sabbath since Jesus said he was Lord of the Sabbath, and the God spoke about the Lord's holy day in Isaiah 58.

B. We do acknowledge that the church fathers called sunday holy, and that their view of this expanded over time to eventually replace Sabbath with Sunday. However, like veneration of mary or relics, etc. we hold this to be a deviation from the apostles teaching. This process was spurred by souring relations with the Jews. Since the Christians were viewed as a sect of Judaizm it became expedient to make separation with the Jews. We say this because there is evidence of fairly wide spread Sabbath keeping in early times. If Jesus had clearly said that the day was to be replaced with Sunday this would not be the case.

So your Church does nothing daily regarding worship?