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Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

Montalban

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30. This complete cessation was represented to the Jews by the observance
of one day in seven, which, that it might be more religiously attended to,
the Lord recommended by his own example. For it is no small incitement to
the zeal of man to know that he is engaged in imitating his Creator.
Should any one expect some secret meaning in the number seven, this being
in Scripture the number for perfection, it may have been selected, not
without cause, to denote perpetuity. In accordance with this, Moses
concludes his description of the succession of day and night on the same
day on which he relates that the Lord rested from his works. Another
probable reason for the number may be, that the Lord intended that the
Sabbath never should be completed before the arrival of the last day. We
here begin our blessed rest in him, and daily make new progress in it; but
because we must still wage an incessant warfare with the flesh, it shall
not be consummated until the fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah: "From
one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh
come to worship before me, saith the Lord," (Isaiah 66:23); in other
words, when God shall be "all in all," (1 Cor. 15:28). It may seem,
therefore, that by the seventh day the Lord delineated to his people the
future perfection of his sabbath on the last day, that by continual
meditation on the sabbath, they might throughout their whole lives aspire
to this perfection.
31. Should these remarks on the number seem to any somewhat far-fetched, I
have no objection to their taking it more simply: that the Lord appointed
a certain day on which his people might be trained, under the tutelage of
the Law, to meditate constantly on the spiritual rest, and fixed upon the
seventh, either because he foresaw it would be sufficient, or in order
that his own example might operate as a stronger stimulus; or, at least to
remind men that the Sabbath was appointed for no other purpose than to
render them conformable to their Creator. It is of little consequence
which of these be adopted, provided we lose not sight of the principal
thing delineated, viz., the mystery of perpetual resting from our works.
To the contemplation of this, the Jews were every now and then called by
the prophets, lest they should think a carnal cessation from labour
sufficient. Beside the passages already quoted, there is the following:
"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on
my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord,
honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding
thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: then shalt thou delight
thyself in the Lord," (Isaiah 58:13, 14). Still there can be no doubt,
that, on the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ, the ceremonial part of the
commandment was abolished. He is the truth, at whose presence all the
emblems vanish; the body, at the sight of which the shadows disappear. He,
I say, is the true completion of the sabbath: "We are buried with him by
baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the
glory of the Father, even so we should walk in newness of life," (Rom.
6:4). Hence, as the Apostle elsewhere says, "Let no man therefore judge
you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holiday, or of the new moon,
or of the sabbath days; which are a shadow of things to come; but the
body is of Christ," (Col. 2:16, 17); meaning by body the whole essence of
the truth, as is well explained in that passage. This is not contented
with one day, but requires the whole course of our lives, until being
completely dead to ourselves, we are filled with the life of God.
Christians, therefore, should have nothing to do with a superstitious
observance of days.
32. The two other cases ought not to be classed with ancient shadows, but
are adapted to every age. The sabbath being abrogated, there is still room
among us, first, to assemble on stated days for the hearing of the Word,
the breaking of the mystical bread, and public prayer; and, secondly, to
give our servants and labourers relaxation from labour. It cannot be
doubted that the Lord provided for both in the commandment of the Sabbath.
The former is abundantly evinced by the mere practice of the Jews. The
latter Moses has expressed in Deuteronomy in the following terms: "The
seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do
any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor
thy maid-servant,—that thy man-servant and thy maid-servant may rest as
well as thou," (Deut. 5: 14.) Likewise in Exodus, "That thine ox and thine
ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be
refreshed," (Exod. 23:12). Who can deny that both are equally applicable
to us as to the Jews? Religious meetings are enjoined us by the word of
God; their necessity, experience itself sufficiently demonstrates. But
unless these meetings are stated, and have fixed days allotted to them,
how can they be held? We must, as the apostle expresses it, do all things
decently and in orders (1 Cor. 14:40). So impossible, however, would it be
to preserve decency and order without this politic arrangements that the
dissolution of it would instantly lead to the disturbance and ruin of the
Church. But if the reason for which the Lord appointed a sabbath to the
Jews is equally applicable to us, no man can assert that it is a matter
with which we have nothing to do. Our most provident and indulgent Parent
has been pleased to provide for our wants not less than for the wants of
the Jews. Why, it may be asked, do we not hold daily meetings, and thus
avoid the distinction of days? Would that we were privileged to do so!
Spiritual wisdom undoubtedly deserves to have some portion of every day
devoted to it. But if, owing to the weakness of many, daily meetings
cannot be held, and charity will not allow us to exact more of them, why
should we not adopt the rule which the will of God has obviously imposed
upon us?
33. I am obliged to dwell a little longer on this because some restless
spirits are now making an outcry about the observance of the Lord's day.
They complain that Christian people are trained in Judaism, because some
observance of days is retained. My reply is, that those days are observed
by us without Judaism, because in this matter we differ widely from the
Jews. We do not celebrate it with most minute formality, as a ceremony by
which we imagine that a spiritual mystery is typified, but we adopt it as
a necessary remedy for preserving order in the Church. Paul informs us
that Christians are not to be judged in respect of its observance, because
it is a shadow of something to come, (Col. 2:16); and, accordingly, he
expresses a fear lest his labour among the Galatians should prove in vain,
because they still observed days (Gal. 4:10, 11.) And he tells the Romans
that it is superstitious to make one day differ from another (Rom. 14:5).
But who, except those restless men, does not see what the observance is to
which the Apostle refers? Those persons had no regard to that politic and
ecclesiastical arrangement, but by retaining the days as types of spiritual
things, they in so far obscured the glory of Christ, and the light of the
Gospel. They did not desist from manual labour on the ground of its
interfering with sacred study and meditation, but as a kind of religious
observance; because they dreamed that by their cessation from labour, they were cultivating the mysteries which had of old been committed to them. It was, I say, against this preposterous observance of days that the Apostle inveighs, and not against that legitimate selection which is subservient to the peace of Christian society. For in the churches established by him, this was the use for which the Sabbath was retained. He tells the Corinthians to set the first day apart for collecting contributions for
the relief of their brethren at Jerusalem, (1 Cor. 16:2). If superstition
is dreaded, there was more danger in keeping the Jewish sabbath than the
Lord's day as Christians now do. It being expedient to overthrow superstition, the Jewish holy day was abolished; and as a thing necessary to retain decency, orders and peace, in the Church, another day was appointed for that purpose.
34. It was not, however, without a reason that the early Christians
substituted what we call the Lord's day for the Sabbath. The resurrection
of our Lord being the end and accomplishment of that true rest which the
ancient sabbath typified, this day, by which types were abolished serves
to warn Christians against adhering to a shadowy ceremony. I do not cling
so to the number seven as to bring the Church under bondage to it, nor do I
condemn churches for holding their meetings on other solemn days, provided
they guard against superstition. This they will do if they employ those
days merely for the observance of discipline and regular order. The whole
may be thus summed up: As the truth was delivered typically to the Jews,
so it is imparted to us without figure; first, that during our whole lives
we may aim at a constant rest from our own works, in order that the Lord
may work in us by his Spirit; secondly that every individual, as he has
opportunity, may diligently exercise himself in private, in pious
meditation on the works of God, and, at the same time, that all may
observe the legitimate order appointed by the Church, for the hearing of
the word, the administration of the sacraments, and public prayer: And,
thirdly, that we may avoid oppressing those who are subject to us. In this
way, we get quit of the trifling of the false prophets, who in later times
instilled Jewish ideas into the people, alleging that nothing was abrogated
but what was ceremonial in the commandment, (this they term in their
language the taxation of the seventh day), while the moral part
remains—viz. the observance of one day in seven. But this is nothing else
than to insult the Jews, by changing the day, and yet mentally attributing
to it the same sanctity; thus retaining the same typical distinction of
days as had place among the Jews. And of a truth, we see what profit they
have made by such a doctrine. Those who cling to their constitutions go
thrice as far as the Jews in the gross and carnal superstition of
sabbatism; so that the rebukes which we read in Isaiah (Isa. 1:l3; 58:13)
apply as much to those of the present day, as to those to whom the Prophet addressed them. We must be careful, however, to observe the general doctrine—viz. in order that religion may neither be lost nor languish
among us, we must diligently attend on our religious assemblies, and duly
avail ourselves of those external aids which tend to promote the worship
of God.
 
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BrightCandle

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Montalban said:
As Tall73 is impressed by masive cut and paste:
Here are the words of Protestant luminaries Martin Luther and John Calvin
who both wrote against people who worship only on a Saturday...

Montalban:

Do you know how to make short and to the point posts? Long posts just confuse the issue. It is kind of like fillabustering in Congress, where a speaker talks non-stop for hours and hours!

The simple fact of the matter, is that the Reformers did a work according to the light that they had, and adapted to the time that they were living in. But, they had their faults as we all know. Unfortunately, they had still retained many of the errors of Rome, which gave the Catholic theologians an advantage when Luther was brought before Church Councils, especially when it came to the Sabbath. Luther was inconsistent, in that he profess to follow the Bible and the Bible only, and against tradition. While being in favor of Sunday worship which the Catholics boldly claimed was made sacred by the church of Rome, and not the Bible. Luther's duplicity on this issue was clear, and it was a set back for the Reformation.

Thank God that small groups of Sabbatarians, scattered in various places in Europe, North Africa, Asia Minor, and the British Isles, keep the true Sabbath, until Sabbatarians came to the New World, and the rest is history, with the SDA church being by far and away the largest, and fastest growing, Sabbath keeping Christian church in the world. Praise God!
 
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tall73

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Montalban said:
Indeed, because I didn't see you mention Jesus overturning it, you mentioned Paul did.



My initial statement was that the Bible shows that Jesus changed it. And by His death He did. But I will also give statements by Jesus that show that He did not intend for the temple to go on as usual.

MT 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38 Look, yourhouse is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

MT 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."


Jesus here predicts the destruction of the temple which of course took place. Since then there have been no sacrifices.

Moreover God indicated an end to the system by rending the temple curtain in two, revealing the way to the holy place. This happened at Jesus death.



Jesus also instituted ,as you acknowledge, the Lord's supper, re-interpreting the passover.

So let me ask, why don't your priests come from Aaron? Why don't they offer goats and live in booths? They obviously are not an extension of the OT priesthood.



Which again leads to the problem that you are happy that Paul overturns the priesthood, but not that the Sabbath; which you call 'development.

Sorry, there is a prophecy from Jesus, an act of God, and statements from Paul which show the change. We also see Jesus making His sacrifice the basis of the new covenant, not those of animals. But you have not yet shown a text from Paul or Jesus that Sunday was substituted for the Sabbath.

.

You are correct, we do seem to be going around in circles as you justify one action one way, and the same action another



No, I was simply showing what I earlier contested. Now I showed you more evidence but you have no text still that talks about a switch.

Hebrews 8 is indeed getting rid of the practice of Saturday worship, because as you so well put it the priests performed sacrifice on that day, and now with the 'new' covenant, they have the "Lord's Day" for this, which is Sunday...

yes the priests offered sacrifices every day. And they stopped having any meaning with the sacrifice of Jesus, and they stopped entirely with the destruction of the temple. Moreover the Sabbath existed before any sacrifice, and is not at all effected by the destruction of the temple.

as shown by

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

Ok, so where is your text that the day was changed? I don't see it. It says that Paul preached to them and ate or had the Lord's supper on the first day when he was about to leave. This does not at all show that the day was changed. Nor did Jesus say that the meal was limited to one day. He said as often as you do it.



We know also that they passed the plate around on Sunday (1 Corinthians 16:2), and that we also know from Paul that this 'breaking of bread' was not a 'meal', but a part of the new covenant.

You say we do, but how do we know that the breaking of bread meant that? it said they did it every day house to house. Moreover it didn't say pass the plate. It said that each of them should set aside part of their income on the first day so when Paul came they wouldn't have to drum up funds. That sounds like book keeping. Not the best of activities on a holy day.



1 Cor 11:20 When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, 21 for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. 22 Don't you have homes to eat and drink in?

He is saying that when the believers come together normally to eat together it is NOT the same as the Lord's Supper. The Lord's Supper is different.

That is true. And how did he refer to it here? As the Lord's supper, not as breaking bread. So he certainly knew how to write that if that is what he meant. But even if it was, you still produced no text that said the day was switched, or that the Lord's supper was only done on the first day.

Which is also reflected in Ignatius' work...

Epistle to the Ephesians

20:2 especially if the Lord should reveal aught to me. Assemble yourselves together in common, every one of you severally, man by man, in grace, in one faith and one Jesus Christ, who after the flesh was of David's race, who is Son of Man and Son of God, to the end that ye may obey the bishop and presbytery without distraction of mind; breaking one bread, which is the medicine of immortality and the antidote that we should not die but live for ever in Jesus Christ.

<http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-lightfoot.html>




Breaking one bread. That phrase did not occur in Acts, and even if it had it proves nothign about the change of day. You amply demonstrated that Paul knows how to say the Lord's supper when he wants to.

The priesthood was continued by the Apostles...

St. Ignatius, taught by St. Peter himself, and writing before the Bible was compiled wrote...

Epistle to the Ephesians

CHAPTER 5

5:1 For if I in a short time had such converse with your bishop, which was not after the manner of men but in the Spirit, how much more do I congratulate you who are closely joined with him as the Church is with Jesus Christ and as Jesus Christ is with the Father, that all things may be harmonious in unity.

<http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-ephesians-lightfoot.html>


I admit, I did not see the word priest in there once. Can you explain? Andif you mean bishop, is your bishop descended of Aaron? And are you by this suggesting that Hebrews lied when it said that Christ is our High Priest, and that Peter lied when he said we are all a royal priesthood?

This reflects the Epistle;

Titus 1:7 Since a bishop is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless–not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain.

Sorry, I must have missed it. No priest mentioned there either. No one descended from Aaron. There was something there about an overseer appointed for the church. Who denies that? But that is hardly an OT priest.

The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans

"Chapter VIII.-Let Nothing Be Done Without the Bishop.

See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid"

http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-21.htm#P2123_357530 <http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-21.htm>




Nope, no priest there either. And did you notice that it said to follow the bishop as you would the apostles? They were not the same as apostles. They were men appointed as overseers. But I still don't see a priest.

And are you again saying that everytime the eucharist is held that Jesus is sacrificed again? You never clarified that of course. That is quite an unbiblical notion if so.

Each church headed by a bishop is catholic.

The 'new' Sabbath of the new covenant was praciteced by the Apostles, by the new priests. But you want to say that Jesus did away with one (based on what an Apostle said), and not the other (based on it not being mentioned by Jesus). So you selectively choose what it is you want to follow, as far as I can see.

I do so based on what the Bible says. Show me the text that speaks of a new Sabbath? You still haven't shown it. But I have shown evidence from Jesus and from Hebrews of the passing of the old priesthood, as well as plain texts saying that Jesus is our High Priest and that we have direct access to the throne of grace. If you wish to say the Bible lies, that is up to you.

The Sabbath is replaced by "The Lord's Day" as the prime day of worshipping God. That is in fact why you picked up that Ignatius mentions Saturday. Which is odd then that you didn't pick up on where he said that Sunday is the day of the new covenant.
So you explain him keeping Sabbath how? And where was that Bible text of the day being switched? Oh yes, it doesn't exist

.

IGNATIUS to the Magnesians

CHAPTER 9 9:1 If then those who had walked in ancient practices attained unto newness of hope, no longer observing sabbaths but fashioning their lives after the Lord's day, on which our life also arose through Him and through His death which some men deny -- a mystery whereby we attained unto belief, and for this cause we endure patiently, that we may be found disciples of Jesus Christ our only teacher



Sorry that is not what the Greek says. You never addressed that point .The phrase Lord's day appears nowhere there in the Greek. And where do you see a new covenant there? moreover, why is he talking about the prophets in the OT keeping the new covenant if it is the new covenant...which it isn't. Sorry, you don't appear to know what Ignatius was talking about. And when you do know what the Bible is talking about...Jesus being the high Priest of the new covenant, you conveniently forget it and call the bishop your priest. If you wish a priest other than Jesus, I can only wonder why.

...

10:1 Therefore let us not be insensible to His goodness. For if He should imitate us according to our deeds, we are lost. For this cause, seeing that we are become His disciples, let us learn to live as beseemeth Christianity. For whoso is called by another name besides this, is not of God.

10:2 Therefore put away the vile leaven which hath waxed stale and sour, and betake yourselves to the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be ye salted in Him,

that none among you grow putrid, seeing that by your savour ye shall be proved.

10:3 It is monstrous to talk of Jesus Christ and to practise Judaism. For Christianity did not believe in Judaism, but Judaism in Christianity, wherein every tongue believed and was gathered together unto God.

<http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-magnesians-lightfoot.html>




Indeed, and we see how he applied that in speaking of the observance of the Sabbath. He said not to keep the Jewish traditions but keep it as Jesus did. Good point. Moreover, he says to be salted in Jesus Christ...but you seem to want another High Priest. Why is that?

[/quote]

The Epistle of Barnabas, written sometime after the year 80 says...

Barnabas 15:8

Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another world.

<http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/barnabas-lightfoot.html>



[/quote]

First of all most scholars do not agree with your date. Second of all you have yet to address the issue of Barnabas being a total nut, and having fanciful interpretations which no one wants to claim yet. Do you want to claim them?

But I have no problem with Barnabas in 135 expressing the changed view which only those in Alexandria and Rome were keeping by 400 years after Jesus. You once again refuse to look at all the evidence. You keep pushing all these texts without attempting to explain why all these obvious changes were rejected by the majority of Christians 400 years after Jesus. Or why the apostolic constitutions speak of the commandment for Sabbath as the reason for assembling in the Christian churches. Or why Ignatius says to keep it. Until you address all the evidence and not just your favorite you can never say your argument is sound.

So, if you want to 'keep the Sabbath' but remember the "Lord's Day" on Sunday, I have no problem with it. But we are not Jews. The blood of the new Covenant is for Sunday.

Not one verse you ever quoted said that the blood of the new covenant was for Sunday.. And you appear to reject Jesus as your High Priest of the new covenant and place a bishop in his place as your mediator and priest, just so you can ignore the Sabbath. Is that being Christian? If you are not a jew then why am I the one who has to keep arguing for Jesus sacrifice being sufficient, and Him being our High Priest? Why do you want to keep going through other men as under the old covenant?

1TI 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone-- 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time.7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.


You don't need a priest to access Jesus. Jesus is your mediator, your High Priest.
 
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tall73

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Montalban said:
As Tall73 is impressed by masive cut and paste:
Here are the words of Protestant luminaries Martin Luther and John Calvin
who both wrote against people who worship only on a Saturday

Why do you think it was that I did a "massive cut and paste"? Because you made off topic and unfounded statements about my particular denomination. So i posted those original documents to clarify. And now you say I love to cut and paste. Is that the only defense you have of your comments?



I may read these, but I have read some of Luther's views on the subject already.

Of course personally I disagree with these two men on a number of issues, and last I checked, so did you.

The only thing that I have seen that we agree on so far is that we are talking in circles. I am done doing that. So I will perhaps check back every now and again to see if Nazaroo has anything to add, as some of his points looked interesting. Otherwise I am finished here.

Montalban, I have to say that when i started talking to you here recently I had just read quite a bit on the eastern orthodox church and felt they had some interesting points. I appreciate your discussingthe issue from a new perspective for me, though I won't say it was all enjoyable. Perhaps the next topic can be more so. God bless
 
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tall73

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BrightCandle said:
Montalban:

Do you know how to make short and to the point posts? Long posts just confuse the issue. It is kind of like fillabustering in Congress, where a speaker talks non-stop for hours and hours!

I don't mind long posts.
 
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Montalban

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BrightCandle said:
Montalban:

Do you know how to make short and to the point posts? Long posts just confuse the issue. It is kind of like fillabustering in Congress, where a speaker talks non-stop for hours and hours!
Given that Tall73 does this, and I did so in direct response to this, you've just stated what an biased person you are.
 
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Montalban

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Nazaroo

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Lets deal with the easy parts of the Sabbath problem first:

I have prepared a handy chart/model of the basic situation. (click on attached picture below: )

Here we see the Arctic and Antarctic Circles coloured in green.
In fact, this aspect of Sabbath management is actually the easiest
to deal with.

As you have said, The exception doesn't define the rule, and
since few people live North and South of the circles,
and they are completely independant of perceptions of 'dawn' and 'dusk',
we can simply synchronize their weekly calendars by radio,
at the speed of light, according to the Central Jerusalem Time,
which will announce the beginning of the Sabbath.

Now the tough part: Look at the globe and try to understand what is actually happening here.

Jerusalem moves Eastward, into darkness.

Or conversely, the Beginning of the Sabbath marches West along with the shadow of the Earth as the Sun (now on the left hand in diagram)
moves away and around, simultaneously announcing a DAWN on the other side of the Earth. What day is it there? When can people there expect the sabbath to begin?

It would be arbitrary and inappropriate to have some other part of the Earth
celebrate the beginning of the Sabbath BEFORE it begins in Jerusalem.
So Jerusalem's time must be advanced relative to every other time zone.

Secondly, note that we have divided the earth into 12 'time zones' of about 2 modern hours each, corresponding to the time unit of a 'Biblical Hour'.
In Jesus time and prior to that, the day was divided into 12 (not 24) hours, or watches. For instance, the 'Third Hour' is about dawn (6 a.m.), and the Ninth Hour is dusk (18:00 hrs Military time). (Actually the confusion over Biblical hours and Roman hours has led to a lot of sloppy bible commentary.)

For the Biblical evidence for 12 hour days see John 11:9, Acts2:1, 15 Luke 22:53)

It makes sense if we are trying to keep in the Spirit of the Biblical viewpoint and Law, to follow Biblical hours as well as Biblical days.
 
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BrightCandle said:
The fact that Saturday is the same day as Sabbath, or the 7th day, is verified by many sources. Copied below is one of them, a quote from Encyclopedia Britannica..........

I was not saved by words from the Encyclopædia Britannica. I get my information on how to live for God from the pages of the Holy Bible, not a calendar.

There is no positive proff in the scriptures that the Sabbath is Saturday.


IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann
 
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Normann

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Montalban said:
What's the connection?

You've no evidence Adam kept the Sabbath, only an assumption.

The only connection I see is you make assumptions when you want.


Fact: The SDA give no scripture to prove Saturday is the Sabbath.

Fact: The SDA only make assumptions that the 7th day is Saturday/Sabbath.

Amen to Montalban for this post.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann
 
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Normann

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Montalban said:
I already did, in the rest of my response to BrightCandle; an analogy about how one can take a verse from the Bible and interpret it a number of ways, and all can claim to be following the Bible.

............... ..........

"In official publications the SDA church continues to defend Ellen White............

Ellen G. White, along with her husband James White, were the founders of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
http://www.ondoctrine.com/10sevadv.htm

........
AFFIRMATIONS
.............

We believe that the ministry and writings of Ellen White were a manifestation of the gift of prophecy.
We believe that Ellen White was inspired by the Holy Spirit and that her writings, the product of that inspiration, are applicable and authoritative, especially to Seventh-day Adventists.
We believe that the purposes of the Ellen White writings include guidance in understanding the teaching of Scripture and application of these teachings, with prophetic urgency, to the spiritual and moral life.
....................



Ohhhhh, if I were SDA I would be yelling OUCH!

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann
 
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Nazaroo

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I'm not an SDA (Seven Days Adventist?), and yet I find I am in almost complete agreement with TALL73, even on some ambiguous but plausible points.

I see no one has offered any alternative modifications to the sabbath that I showed were necessary now that the Earth isn't flat, and we know about the (Ant)Arctic Circles.
 
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Cliff2

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Normann said:
Ohhhhh, if I were SDA I would be yelling OUCH!

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Are you even sure that what is on that site is what SDA's believe because I have my doubts if it is an official SDA site.

You may not need to be yelling out "OUCH!"
after all.

This is just one of the problems many people face.

Just because it is on the net does not mean it is gospel.
 
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8TarHeel8

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MikeJ said:
Hmmm God says to set aside one day to worship Me....but does He say what day or can we set aside any day to worship and praise Him??

Hello Mike,

The Old Testament identifies the 7th day of the week as the Sabbath day.

"Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none." - Exodus 16:26

"Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. - Exodus 20:9-10

'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. - Exodus 31:15

'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a sabbath to the LORD in all your dwellings. - Leviticus 23:3

The question is then what constitutes the seventh day of the week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha
Jewish law's definition defines a day as ending at dusk and nightfall, which is when the next day then begins. Thus, Shabbat begins before sundown Friday night and ends at after nightfall Saturday night (traditionally, after three stars can be seen in the sky). The added time between sunset and nightfall on Saturday night owes to the ambiguous status of that part of the day according to Jewish law.



The seventh day begins at Friday sundown and ends at sundown on Saturday evening. However, the question is whether the Sabbath applies to Christians. The apostle Paul wrote:

Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--
- Col 2:16

Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. - Romans 14:4-6

The Christian today is not under the law but under grace (Romans 6:14). Christ did not die for our sins only to have us placed under the yoke of legalism (Gal 2:21). The answer to your question is that you may observe any day choose or you may regard each day as equal. Nobody is to judge you either way.

Cheers.
 
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SpeakNow

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Romans 6 is talking about choosing one day above another in which to fast. It has nothing to do with changing God's holy day. Certain Christians thought some days were to be set aside to fast to the Lord in prayer, but Romans 6 tells us that we can choose any day, we just have to do it for the Lord.
 
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BrightCandle

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Normann said:
I was not saved by words from the Encyclopædia Britannica. I get my information on how to live for God from the pages of the Holy Bible, not a calendar.

There is no positive proff in the scriptures that the Sabbath is Saturday.



IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

That is a simple minded statement. Since the words, but not the order of the days, have changed since the time of the first century we must look at history and reference works, combined with the Bible to prove the point. Norman, you will find that the majority of Protestant and Catholic and Orthodox historians and theologians, have no doubt which day is which, the problem is that they don't have biblical evidence to back up Sunday keeping. Therefore they must come up with smart sounding questions and arguments such as your above. Truth is simple, error is complex.
 
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