Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

[oldsage]

I'm not an SDA (Seven Days Adventist?), and yet I find I am in almost complete agreement with TALL73, even on some ambiguous but plausible points.

I see no one has offered any alternative modifications to the sabbath that I showed were necessary now that the Earth isn't flat, and we know about the (Ant)Arctic Circles.

Normann is anti-sda and anyone that keeps the sabbath he lumps under that denominations title. So, if you keep the sabbath he will call you sda. Moreover he is "solo scriptura" meaning he doesn't live in the real word, he doesn't read history nor any other external evidences. So, I see no reason to try to convince him, he just doesn't want to learn.

Chris

 

[Cliff2]

Hmmm God says to set aside one day to worship Me....but does He say what day or can we set aside any day to worship and praise Him??

Have you read Gen. 2:1-3 and Ex. 20:8-11

 

[Montalban]

Does that also mean you keep

the same day as Jesus kept?​

I already said we have services on Saturday, however the day the Lord established is Sunday... as evidenced by my citations.

 

[Montalban]

I'm not an SDA (Seven Days Adventist?), and yet I find I am in almost complete agreement with TALL73, even on some ambiguous but plausible points.

I see no one has offered any alternative modifications to the sabbath that I showed were necessary now that the Earth isn't flat, and we know about the (Ant)Arctic Circles.

The only problem with his articles is that they are full of selective reasoning.

Here's how it goes...

The Aposltes/later church meddled with the Sabbath and moved it to Sunday, that is bad.

The Aposltes/later church meddled with the priesthood (Hebrews 8 ) and that is good.

Aside from this double-standard of proof there's the problem in that the priesthood is continually mentioned in the NT after Jesus; it is a reflection of the Kingdom of Heaven. Various passages (already cited) from the NT and early christian writers urge us to keep to the church and obey our bishops.

Given that, then there's no reason to suppose that he should not continue to have priestly vestments as in the OT. But he doesn't.

 

[Cliff2]

I already said we have services on Saturday, however the day the Lord established is Sunday... as evidenced by my citations.

I have never been able to get a straight answer from you guys.

We keep the 7th day holy from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

How do you keep Sunday holy and go to church on the 7th day.

Just tell us how you operate please.

Believe me it is not a loaded question just wanting to know just how you do things.


What time do you have your services on Saturday?

Then how do you keep the rest of the day?

 

[Montalban]

I have never been able to get a straight answer from you guys.

Really? Who else have you asked?

We keep the 7th day holy from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday.

We also calculate days as do the Jews. I've already stated that.

How do you keep Sunday holy and go to church on the 7th day.

Saturday remains the Sabbath. Sunday is the Day of the Lord of the New Covenant.

Just tell us how you operate please.

Shhh! Don't want to give away all our secrets.

Believe me it is not a loaded question just wanting to know just how you do things.

What time do you have your services on Saturday?

I actually don't recall. My old church's site is www.smg.org.au, you can see if it's there. I've given up going to church altogether for reasons irrelevant to this thread - except insofar as I don't recall.

Our main day is Sunday - the Day of the Lord.

 

[Normann]

Are you even sure that what is on that site is what SDA's believe because I have my doubts if it is an official SDA site.


You may not need to be yelling out "OUCH!"
after all.

This is just one of the problems many people face.

Just because it is on the net does not mean it is gospel.
​

Cliff- how many times have you and the others offered a site to prove your point?

I have given you facts and did not get them from web-site, yet you reject them.

Normann

 

[Montalban]

Cliff- how many times have you and the others offered a site to prove your point?

I have given you facts and did not get them from web-site, yet you reject them.

Normann

I'm still waiting though for them to explain why Paul overturning the priesthood in Hebrews is okay, but the overturning of the Sabbath, after Jesus is not.

And the mere fact that Tall73 hasn't addressed the fact that Paul did go to the Temple, and the priesthood did continue seems to suggest one side has run out of ideas.

 

[tall73]

I'm still waiting though for them to explain why Paul overturning the priesthood in Hebrews is okay, but the overturning of the Sabbath, after Jesus is not.

And the mere fact that Tall73 hasn't addressed the fact that Paul did go to the Temple, and the priesthood did continue seems to suggest one side has run out of ideas.

You are not waiting as I already addressed both issues. I also said that I was not interested in going in circles anymore.

You might wish to see if you missed my last post.

 

[Nazaroo]

Normann is anti-sda and anyone that keeps the sabbath he lumps under that denominations title. So, if you keep the sabbath he will call you sda. Moreover he is "solo scriptura" meaning he doesn't live in the real word, he doesn't read history nor any other external evidences. So, I see no reason to try to convince him, he just doesn't want to learn.

Chris

Thanks for the heads up. We'll see.
I don't like 'Sola Scriptura" anymore than I like "Sola Gracia".
Both beget stubborn rebellion once you get to a certain point in your Christian walk.

examples:
(1) "It's not in the bible, so I don't have to acknowledge that."
(2) "I can eat anything I want to. Jesus declared all food clean."

"Here eat this urinal cake: but don't acknowledge it."

The only problem with his(Tall73) articles is that they are full of selective reasoning.

Here's how it goes...

The Aposltes/later church meddled with the Sabbath and moved it to Sunday, that is bad.

The Aposltes/later church meddled with the priesthood (Hebrews 8 ) and that is good.

Aside from this double-standard of proof there's the problem in that the priesthood is continually mentioned in the NT after Jesus; it is a reflection of the Kingdom of Heaven. Various passages (already cited) from the NT and early christian writers urge us to keep to the church and obey our bishops.

Given that, then there's no reason to suppose that he should not continue to have priestly vestments as in the OT. But he doesn't.

Okay, I am not sure what the priesthood thing is, or where everyone stands on that.

Obviously double-standards in argument aren't great. But ultimately since this seems to be a historical question and an authority question, we have to first established what happened, and then on the basis of independant external evidence decide "good/bad".

What's all the fuss here. Let's say the priesthood continued, (complete with tithing? for wages), but some of their functions, like sacrifice ended. Still that puts a lot of Levites out of work.

Obey our bishops. That would assume we came under their authority at some point in the first place.....

Vestments(?) I have a practical reason for no vestments. No money.

 

[Cliff2]

Really? Who else have you asked?

We also calculate days as do the Jews. I've already stated that.

Saturday remains the Sabbath. Sunday is the Day of the Lord of the New Covenant.

Shhh! Don't want to give away all our secrets.

I actually don't recall. My old church's site is www.smg.org.au, you can see if it's there. I've given up going to church altogether for reasons irrelevant to this thread - except insofar as I don't recall.

Our main day is Sunday - the Day of the Lord.

I am still no clearer as to what you believe than before.

Your site says this.
Saturday: Great Vespers 6:30pm w Bible Teaching 7:30pm w Confessions 5-6:15pm
Sunday: Matins 8:30am w Divine Liturgy 9:30am w Church School 11:15am w Fellowship 11:15am
Healing Service: Every first saturday of the month 6:30pm


So I would take that you go on Saturday night. Yet you claim to keep it the same as the Jews, that is from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.

Then you have Sunday service as well.

Why all the confusion as to what day you keep.

Do you keep both days, Saturday and Sunday?

Is it so hard to be up front and tell us what you really believe.

 

[Normann]

Read the 15th chapter of Acts.

 

[BigDave]

What is the NT teaching on the observance of the Sabbath?


Colossians 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.



The observance of the Sabbath is merely a shadow of things to come. The reality is Christ. No longer do laws about foods or days of worship need to be observed.



Romans 14:5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.



There is no need to esteem any day in particular above another. So, it would be just as wrong to say that Sunday has replaced the Sabbath as to say that it is necessary to worship on the Sabbath. In short, no day need be special - the key is to be convinced in your own mind about the matter and observe whatever day you decide (Sabbath, Sunday or all of them, doesn't matter) in faith.



What does Scripture say about contined observance of the the Mosaic law?

Heb 7:12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.



The law has been changed with the advent of Christ.

Heb 8:7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

The old covenant was imperfect.

Hebrews8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The Mosaic law is no longer applicable.

 

[oldsage]

Really? Who else have you asked?

We also calculate days as do the Jews. I've already stated that.

Saturday remains the Sabbath. Sunday is the Day of the Lord of the New Covenant.

Shhh! Don't want to give away all our secrets.

I actually don't recall. My old church's site is www.smg.org.au, you can see if it's there. I've given up going to church altogether for reasons irrelevant to this thread - except insofar as I don't recall.

Our main day is Sunday - the Day of the Lord.

I found this off the site you posted:

How long is one of your services?

Not long enough for those striving for spiritual growth and renewal. In minutes, the Divine Liturgy (such as our service on the Sabbath and Lord's Days) is a bit longer than an episode of General Hospital (but without the corruption and commercials!)

 

[Nazaroo]

What does Scripture say about contined observance of the the Mosaic law?

Good question. But your answer is wanting:

Heb 7:12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The law has been changed with the advent of Christ.

Yes. There were changes made:
Specifically, sacrifice was no longer required.

Heb 8:7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

The old covenant was imperfect.

Yes. the old Covenant between God and Israel.
The Covenant is the agreement between God and Israel.

Although it included Law, and indeed specific national laws,
It is not at all identical with the Law of God for mankind,
which includes commandments like "Thou shalt not murder."
These Laws (commandments) are for everybody, and are not exclusive to the Covenant.

Hebrews8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first (covenant! not the Law) old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old (the old covenant) is ready to vanish away.

The Mosaic law is no longer applicable.

Wrong! Obviously you aren't reading the word of God or your own post carefully enough
to keep the concepts of Law and Covenant from being confused in your mind.
The final leap in your erroneous non-sequitous logic is you equate change with 'no longer applicable'.
Wrong again. Change means SOME laws are no longer applicable in the old form.

Go back and re-read your scriptures, and think again please.

 

[oldsage]

Thanks for the heads up. We'll see.
I don't like 'Sola Scriptura" anymore than I like "Sola Gracia".
Both beget stubborn rebellion once you get to a certain point in your Christian walk.

examples:
(1) "It's not in the bible, so I don't have to acknowledge that."
(2) "I can eat anything I want to. Jesus declared all food clean."

"Here eat this urinal cake: but don't acknowledge it."

Well, he isn't sola scriptura which the reformers were, he is solo scriptura I know it seems the same just language change, but the doctrine of solo scriptura says the bible is the only authority, but the sola scriptura camp says the bible is the final authority, not the only authority. In the sola scriptura camp tradition, reason, and the bible are all utilized.

I just use a slight distinction in the name of the terms to differenciate the two theological camps.


Chris

 

[BigDave]

Curious...For those who assert that keeping the Sabbath is Scripturally necessary, do you keep the rest of the law as well? If not, why?

 

[stone]

Saturday is the sabbath


Rome changed that with the judacais fiscus or was it fiscus judaicus? I haven't studied ancient greek yet. :-|

 

[stone]

Not all of the law can be kept for many reasons, one is that there is no temple, but Jesus says he will rebuild it in 3 days when he returns, then judge all of you.

 

[BrightCandle]

Curious...For those who assert that keeping the Sabbath is Scripturally necessary, do you keep the rest of the law as well? If not, why?

This is another simple minded question that sounds smart, but isn't.

The anwere is obvious: The Ten Commandments were written in stone (permanent), by Jesus' own finger. The law of Moses was written by the hand of Moses on paper (not permanent).