Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

Normann · Dec 17, 2005

So, which calendar is the one we will get to heaven by?

On October 5,1582 it suddenly became October 15, 1582; we lost ten days and the weekly sabbath is no longer the same seventh day!

Focus on the scripture and not on the calendar.

Find out what they did in the O.T. and don't take my word for it. Study it yourself. If the Seventh day is Saturday and the Sabbath, then it is important enough to show me with scripture.

I need to see it in the Bible, not on a calendar.

I was saved by scripture and I live by scripture; not a calendar.

2 Tim 2:15

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Normann · Dec 17, 2005

[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ's return. What a dubious beginning![/font]

[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:[/font]

Can we trust them with any matter?

rstrats · Dec 17, 2005

Normann,

re: "On October 5,1582 it suddenly became October 15, 1582; we lost ten days and the weekly sabbath is no longer the same seventh day!"

The yearly cycle has indeed been changed. In 1582, the length of the year was changed to include the leap year. This changeover resulted in October 1582 having only 21 days! But each week remained the same seven days in length. Thursday, October 4, was followed by Friday, October 15. There was no change in the weekly cycle.

Haggai · Dec 17, 2005

Normann said:
[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ's return. What a dubious beginning![/font]

[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:[/font]

Can we trust them with any matter?

You've got the history of SDA'ism all wrong.
Ellen White did not receive any visions until after 1844.
Before then she was just acting on her own will.
In vision she has done inhuman things, such as one prominent time I remember, she did not breathe and for several hours held up a book around 50 pounds while in vision. The doctors checked her and she was not breathing and did not move a muscle.

William Miller started adventism when in 1844, he was wrong about his interpreation about the 2300 days in Daniel. "And after the 2300 days, so shall the sanctuary be cleansed." He thought that the verse was talking about the earthly sanctuary, and that after the 2300 days (Which he mathematically calculated to end in 1844, which was correct) Jesus would come to "cleanse" the Earth. Then when no Jesus appeared, he reconsidered. He, with earnest prayer and study, figured out that it was not the the earth the verse was talking about, but the heavly sanctuary. Thus adventism began. There were other men that received a few of the first same visions as did Ellen White, but refused to tell anyone and rejected them. Thus God went to the most humble person, a woman. And this woman being Ellen White recived the visions and she did accept them and evangelised.

Your brother in Christ,
--------------

woobadooba · Dec 17, 2005

Normann said:
[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ's return. What a dubious beginning![/font]

[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:[/font]

Can we trust them with any matter?

Is this thread about the SDA church or the Sabbath?

By the way, from what I understand, Christians from all walks of life made this mistake in assuming that Jesus would return at this time.

So do us all a favor here, stay on topic, and stop trying to make the SDA church look bad. Truth is, there are several people in here that aren't even SDA who are teaching heresy concerning the Sabbath, including you, so you are only condemning yourself for condemning the SDA church by reason of your own logic.

oldsage · Dec 17, 2005

Normann said:
[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Seventh-day Adventism grew despite endorsing a false date for Christ's return. What a dubious beginning![/font]

[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]Ellen G. White endorsed a false prophecy by William Miller that Christ would return, first in 1843 and then 1844. Miller repented when Christ didn't show up on his date but Ellen didn't want to be viewed as a false prophetess for endorsing him through her visions. The idea was concocted by one of her followers that the date was right, but the event was wrong. Ellen eagerly accepted this "out", and this explanation was offered to explain away the false prophecy:[/font]

Can we trust them with any matter?

Normann, you need to stay on subject, the doctrine concerning the sabbath has NOTHING to do with the sda nor ellen white, Baptist kept the sabbath 200 years before Miller or White even existed. And there were other sabbath keeping groups throughout the centuries. So, if you have a beef against the sda start another thread on that topic, but keep it out of here.

Chris

oldsage · Dec 17, 2005

BigNorsk said:
I am not talking apples and oranges but rather law and gospel.

I don't know why you jump to the rediculous conclusion that because Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath that means go out an sin as much as you can. I never said such and neither did Paul.

I know Paul never said that, but when you say break the law, that is saying go out and sin.

[/color said:
BigNorsk]A slave of righteousness does not go out and sin all the more. It is not like being under the law where the law says do not do and the desire is awakened. It is superior to the law.

Your whole God plowing with us and grace is not passive sounds like you are a Pelagian teaching that we must do works in order to earn salvation. I do hope you aren't teaching a works based salvation but it sure sounds like it.

Well, then you are not hearing correctly about what I am saying if you think I have spoken of a works based salvation, because IF there was a work we could do to be saved then we would have no need of a savior. I am talking about a God who has the ability to change someones life for the better, not a god who says you are forgiven and then leaves you in the mud.

BigNorsk said:
Back to the specific work of the Saturday Sabbath. God fortold the ending of the Saturday Sabbath.

Hosea 2:11 NET
(11) I will put an end to all her celebration: her annual religious festivals, monthly new moon celebrations, and weekly Sabbath festivities all her appointed festivals.

My response to this would be, read it again in context

[/color said:
BigNorsk]I am going to presume you don't celebrate the new moon Sabbath anymore? Probably don't celebrate the annual festivals such as the Passover. Yet you cling to the weekly Sabbath. Why is that?

You presume wrong.

[/color said:
BigNorsk]We see them mentioned together in the New Testament.

Colossians 2:16-17 NET
(16) Therefore do not let anyone judge you with respect to food or drink, or in the matter of a feast, new moon, or Sabbath days
(17) these are only the shadow of the things to come, but the reality is Christ!

I dealt with this passage already in this thread.

[/color said:
BigNorsk]and
Galatians 4:9-11 NET
(9) But now that you have come to know God (or rather to be known by God), how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless basic forces? Do you want to be enslaved to them all over again?
(10) You are observing religious days and months and seasons and years.
(11) I fear for you that my work for you may have been in vain.

this passage isn't talking about anything in the Torah, but pagan practices

[/color said:
BigNorsk]The Saturday Sabbath does link back to the Creation of the world, though it is also linked to the time in Egypt. The new Sabbath is also linked to the new creation.

2 Corinthians 5:17 NET
(17) So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away look, what is new has come!

Christians are a new creation, we are in Christ and there is a new day.

Hebrews 4:7-10 NET
(7) So God again ordains a certain day, "Today," speaking through David after so long a time, as in the words quoted before, "O, that today you would listen as he speaks! Do not harden your hearts."
(8) For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken afterward about another day.
(9) Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.
(10) For the one who enters God's rest has also rested from his works, just as God did from his own works.

Don't confuse creations and Sabbaths, it doesn't work very well.

Well, Hebrews 4 has been dealt with extensively in these threads on this subject, and the rest of what you posted had nothing to do with the Sabbath, we being a new creature has nothing to do with the Creation and Sabbath is still a memorial to it. Since Sabbath is a memorial to creation, how does it get fulfilled? It memorializes the six days God worked, and the 7th day in which He rested. How does anything that Jesus did while here fulfill it? When the commandment was given at Sinai it was for a memorial, to remember it.

chris

BigNorsk · Dec 18, 2005

I don't think a thread on the Sabbath can do justice to your understanding. You observe New Moon festivals and yearly festivals, I'm a little surprised, I've only run into that as being common in the many splinter groups from the Worldwide Churches of God, but they shouldn't be here because they disagree with the Nicene Creed.

How did you arrive at that, do you think the church replaced Israel or do you go for the "lost tribe" theories so that we are actually Jews?

Did you study under someone or did you come to your understanding on your own?

How about a book that you would say you are in agreement with?

Marv

Normann · Dec 18, 2005

Some ancient calendars had from 10 to 13 months. Others had 354 days a year, 304 days; February had 23 and 24 days every other year. March was the first month of the year, and changed to January and there was one year that had 445 days. The Romas called it the year of confusion. Oh, what confusion we have when we try to preach the gospel from a calendar.

No one time has anyone ever given scripture that proves Saturday is the Sabbath.

No one has given scripture from the N. T. with the command to keep the sabbath.

Why?

Because it's not in the Bible!

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Cliff2 · Dec 18, 2005

Normann said:
Some ancient calendars had from 10 to 13 months. Others had 354 days a year, 304 days; February had 23 and 24 days every other year. March was the first month of the year, and changed to January and there was one year that had 445 days. The Romas called it the year of confusion. Oh, what confusion we have when we try to preach the gospel from a calendar.

No one time has anyone ever given scripture that proves Saturday is the Sabbath.

No one has given scripture from the N. T. with the command to keep the sabbath.

Why?

Because it's not in the Bible!

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

I gave you something like well over 50 Sabbath New Testament texts and 8 first day New Testament texts.

Look at them all again and see if there is any support for keeping the first day of the week.

Show me the text that says to keep the first day of the week.

rstrats · Dec 18, 2005

Normann,

re: "Some ancient calendars had from 10 to 13 months. Others had 354 days a year, 304 days; February had 23 and 24 days every other year. March was the first month of the year, and changed to January and there was one year that had 445 days."

None of that affects or interrupts the weekly cycle.

rstrats · Dec 18, 2005

Normann,

re: "No one has given scripture from the N. T. with the command to keep the sabbath"

Hebrews 4:9: "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath".

oldsage · Dec 18, 2005

BigNorsk said:
I don't think a thread on the Sabbath can do justice to your understanding. You observe New Moon festivals and yearly festivals, I'm a little surprised, I've only run into that as being common in the many splinter groups from the Worldwide Churches of God, but they shouldn't be here because they disagree with the Nicene Creed.

How did you arrive at that, do you think the church replaced Israel or do you go for the "lost tribe" theories so that we are actually Jews?

Did you study under someone or did you come to your understanding on your own?

How about a book that you would say you are in agreement with?

Marv

I agree with the Nicene Creed, I am not affiliated with the Worldwide Churches of God, I don't believe in replacement theology nor some "lost tribe" theory.
No, I haven't studied under someone.
a book that I am in agreement with would be the Holy Scriptures.
but I don't think that is the book you were fishing for. Honestly, I am not sure of a book I would be in agreement with.

Chris

oldsage · Dec 18, 2005

Normann said:
Some ancient calendars had from 10 to 13 months. Others had 354 days a year, 304 days; February had 23 and 24 days every other year. March was the first month of the year, and changed to January and there was one year that had 445 days. The Romas called it the year of confusion. Oh, what confusion we have when we try to preach the gospel from a calendar.

Normann, this has been explained to you time and time again and you don't seem to grasp it. You need to show where the 7 day weekly cycle the jews have been keeping for 4000 years has changed. Now you can pick up any calendar you like in any time you like, heck you can even use the Myan Calendar if you want, and show me where the seven day weekly cycle that God gave at Sinai has been broken.
A seven day cycle looks like this
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,6,7

wherever there is a seven it is the Sabbath. Tell me where the above cycle has anything to do with a calendar. Did each Jew have a different Sabbath in the bible? if so, show me where. Did God teach that everyone is to have the same day as the Sabbath or different ones? Does the above cycle get affected by the amount of days in a year? or a month?

Are you going to ignore this post and not deal with the issues? If you don't want to answer, can you send me a pm and let me know, so I don't just post for nothing, because I see no reason to post unless you plan to dialogue.

Chris

Sun2 · Dec 18, 2005

ChrisBot said:
This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?"

Im not going to look in to any posts , one too many to read. I live in the middle east , as per Arabic [ which is very close to aramic and hebrew ] Sabbath means Saturday .

Saturday is called " Youm-Al-Sabath /Sabth /Sabbath" .

Peace,

IgnatiusOfAntioch · Dec 18, 2005

The Sabbath is the seventh. Sunday belongs to the Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is the Light of the World.

woobadooba · Dec 18, 2005

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:
The Sabbath is the seventh. Sunday belongs to the Jesus Christ, the Son of God who is the Light of the World.

But how can this be so when Jesus is the one who created the Sabbath?
Jn. 1:1-3 Certainly the Sabbath belongs to Jesus Christ.

Yet, it was made for the purpose of giving it to man. Mk. 2:27

Thus the Sabbath is God's gift to us. So why look at it as though it were a curse?

Normann · Dec 18, 2005

Cliff2 said:
I gave you something like well over 50 Sabbath New Testament texts and 8 first day New Testament texts.

Look at them all again and see if there is any support for keeping the first day of the week.

Show me the text that says to keep the first day of the week.

Cliff,
Here are some other things they did in the N. T.

Do you speak in tongues?
1 Cor. 14:39
Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1 Cor. 14:18
I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Do you heal the lame?
Acts 3:7
And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ancle bones received strength.

Do you lay hands on the sick?
Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Can you heal the fever?
Acts 28:8
And it came to pass, that the father of Publius lay sick of a fever and of a bloody flux: to whom Paul entered in, and prayed, and laid his hands on him, and healed him.

Lots of things went on in the N.T. But Cliff, there is no command in the N.T. to keep the Sabbath!

Cliff, all you have to support your doctrine is a calendar.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Normann · Dec 18, 2005

rstrats said:
Normann,

re: "No one has given scripture from the N. T. with the command to keep the sabbath"

Hebrews 4:9: "It is therefore the duty of the people of God to keep the sabbath".

Your quote is not found in the Bible.

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

So, did you make that up yourself?

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Hebrews 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

strikerchris0411 · Dec 18, 2005

I am surprised this has over 1000 posts. It saturday isn't it. I think it was supposed to be Sunday though.

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