Which comes first repentance or forgiveness?

New Testament Christian · Nov 25, 2021

Faithful777 said:
Unfortunately four questions and zero answers, and that does not prove that only the meek know how to be faithful ?

Just ask one question.

When we have finished giving our reasons.

Then please ask another question.

If you throw a ton of verses at me, and expect me to give an explanation for everyone.

I'm not going to go along with continuous new scripture before you and I finish our explanation of the present scripture being discussed.

Alright? Fair enough?

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

New Testament Christian said:
No, I know what Bye means.

I changed my mind.

If you will stop posting on different subjects and just stick to one subject I will try to answer you.

But I'm afraid you don't yet understand your own self.

It will be difficult to explain things to you,
No offense, not trying to intentionally insult you, friend.
Fact is, so far you have not followed in a logical thought process.

The ones who are unstable ( changing their mind regularly for example) are the same ones opposing themselves, by being in sins and yes are still asked to clean their hands, and to purify their hearts, but they don't listen, they try to teach with their own words instead, against Gods words ( and teach very little therefore and hear less)

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

New Testament Christian · Nov 25, 2021

Faithful777 said:
The ones who are unstable ( changing their mind regularly for example) are the same ones opposing themselves, by being in sins and yes are still asked to clean their hands, and to purify their hearts, but they don't listen, they try to teach with their own words instead, against Gods words ( and teach very little therefore and hear less)

James 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

Have you decided you don't want to discuss the scriptures?

I'll let you ask the first question.

If not, Happy Thanksgiving friend.

btw I never changed my mind on doctrine only on leaving our discussion today

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

New Testament Christian said:
Just ask one question.

When we have finished giving our reasons.

Then please ask another question.

If you throw a ton of verses at me, and expect me to give an explanation for everyone.

I'm not going to go along with continuous new scripture before you and I finish our explanation of the present scripture being discussed.

Alright? Fair enough?

Scripture gave reasons, and you gave yours.

I answered all your questions as best as I could ( by scripture) and you continued your idea that I am not following logic ( although my logic is entirely scripture)

No scripture is contentious, that is people who oppose themselves and do not repent ( because of their own opposition)

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

New Testament Christian said:
Have you decided you don't want to discuss the scriptures?

I'll let you ask the first question.

If not, Happy Thanksgiving friend.

You never discussed the scriptures.

You discussed your own opinion that all men can repent.

They cannot, as they oppose themselves (In pride in the snare of the devil as told simply and truly).

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

Repentance is granted, it is granted when they can cease to oppose themselves, but it is a bit of a hard one as they defend way too well what they love ( again as testified):

Proverbs 18:11 The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit.

Proverbs 26:16 The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason.

New Testament Christian · Nov 25, 2021

I'll ask one more time.

What questions do you want me to answer?

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

I know exactly why it cant be gotten through to people, as God has told us all of these things, as for logic, of course it wont make too much sense again as told..

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Mans wisdom is also foolishness to God, so you see they are totally opposed..

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

New Testament Christian · Nov 25, 2021

Faithful777 said:
You never discussed the scriptures.

You discussed your own opinion that all men can repent.

They cannot, as they oppose themselves (In pride in the snare of the devil as told simply and truly).

ALRIGHT THANKS!

Not all men can repent according to Faithful 777.

Now explain why God tells all men everywhere to repent then? Acts 17:30

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

New Testament Christian said:
I'll ask one more time.

What questions do you want me to answer?

You answered already, I did say that to you already, and thanks.

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

New Testament Christian said:
ALRIGHT THANKS!

Not all men can repent according to Faithful 777.

Now explain why God tells all men everywhere to repent then? Acts 17:30

Because He will be judging us all soon..

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

So the assurance of faith was given, that Christ was raised from the dead, and we are to believe in that in our heart and show the Lords death and life, in us.

But the ones who oppose that choose to live in pleasure and live in death( and not repentance up until judgement day...

Acts 18:6
when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

1 Timothy 5:6 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

2 Timothy 3:This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

New Testament Christian · Nov 25, 2021

Faithful777 said:
Because He will be judging us all soon..

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Ok, thankyou

So God tells ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, Acts 17:30.

But you taught me that not all can repent.

Now please help me understand.

If God calls all men to repentance,

Then how is it possible for God to not allow all men everywhere to repent?

I understand all will be judged Sir,

But how is it fair for God to Judge all the same. If God will not allow some to repent but yet commands all to repent?

Please explain your teaching a little more

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

New Testament Christian: " But how is it fair for God to Judge all the same. If God will not allow some to repent but yet commands all to repent?"

It is the opposite testified to what you say, it is not God not allowing them to know God, it is them not allowing themselves to know God.

Job 21:7 Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power?
8 Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes.
9 Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them.
10 Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf.
11 They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance.
12 They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ.
13 They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave.
14 Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways.
15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him?
16 Lo, their good is not in their hand: the counsel of the wicked is far from me.

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

Do you have any more questions ?

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

Job 9:10 Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.

Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

New Testament Christian · Nov 25, 2021

Faithful777 said:
New Testament Christian: " But how is it fair for God to Judge all the same. If God will not allow some to repent but yet commands all to repent?"

New testament Christian:
Sir, I'm in 100% agreement with you. Now that you are no longer teaching calvinism

Faithful777 said:

It is the opposite testified to what you say, it is not God not allowing them to know God, it is them not allowing themselves to know

New testament Christian:
Yes, I agree. But please explain how you can be right here
Yet disagree with yourself and teach the opposite here:

Faithful777 said:

So God has no given repentance to all men, as to all men, faith is not given, clearly ( they are wicked men, men of faith are delivered from)..

Click to expand...

New testament Christian:
See my point?

You also taught not all men are given the ability to believe and repent.
You said God has not given every men the ability to repent.

Please explain how you can say man chooses to know God
but then you say God does not choose all men to know Him?

You say in the next quote God has to give us our faith here:

Faithful777 said:

Now faith is Gods gift( if not given you have no faith, as Israel with no given faith till this deay)..

Click to expand...

New testament Christian:
Now how is it mans choice to believe if God has not chosen to give all men the ability to believe ?

Please explain your teaching.

Click to expand...

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

I answered already, faith is in hearing the word of faith, which are Spirit and life, when they did as Israel( without faith but seeking their own way) they have no faith then.....

The people such as Israel even today, do choose God( but in their own way, and it is that stubbornness and pride that they prevent themselves from knowing Christ, He says here come to Him ( but He is meek)

Christ says this to all..

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

The puffed up ones give their own answer:

Jeremiah 6:17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

Jesus says to all you cant get up any other way.( they do so as they are thieves and robbers in heart).

John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

So all good and bad are there, all is equal all are called, but the prideful ones reject themselves by trying some other prideful way to enter..

Matthew 22:10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Luke 7:30 But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Faith came by hearing the word of God, but the wicked will not hear, they refuse to hear in righteousness( as they hear unrighteousness)

Here again is why the wicked have no faith in Christ ( they have faith in themselves instead)

Psalm 73:3 For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
5 They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.
7 Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish.
8 They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily.
9 They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.
10 Therefore his people return hither: and waters of a full cup are wrung out to them.
11 And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?
12 Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches.

They hold and love the truth ( which we are to believe in) in unrighteousness..

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

2 Peter 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Faithful777 · Nov 25, 2021

Is that answered yet, faith ( of Christ) cant be given to people who have faith in this world.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Which comes first repentance or forgiveness?

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