Which Church?

[WAB]

I must say to start with, that this is not something I enjoy. Nevertheless I feel clarification is called for.

eph3Nine says that she... (and from what has been posted we may assume her husband agrees)...she believes that she is a member of the Church; the Body of Christ. But that the Church did not come into being until Paul showed the many mysteries that had been hidden until God revealed them through Paul, and that the original Apostles (including Peter) were not members of the Church/Body of Christ.

But what about the following, all of which was written by Paul?

1 Corinthians 12:28,29a... "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers?...."

Of course the answer to the questions (which continue on thru vs. 30) is no. What needs to be pointed out is that the apostles were set in the [C]hurch by God!

1Cor. 15:9... "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Strange isn't it that Paul was able to persecute "...the church of God." before it even came into existence?!

When Paul "...went up again to Jerusalem..." (Gal.2) to clarify with the apostles just what he was preaching, Paul says in 2:9a..."And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship..."

The word "fellowship" is the Greek koinoni'a, which means: "a joint participation with someone else, in things held in common by both."

What James, Peter and John held in common with Paul and Barnabas was membership in the Church by means of being 'In Christ". (By the way, Barnabas was sent to Syrian Antioch by the Apostles; was known as an apostle; and accompanied Paul on missionary work to Gentile unbelievers. Rather a contradictory partnership if the Apostles were not members of the Church or the Body of Christ.

Ehpesians 2:13-22... "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both (Jew and Gentile) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us: Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby; And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews). For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

See also Eph. 3:1-5 where Paul makes it crystal clear that: "(..when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit."

Far from claiming that he was the only one to whom the mysteries had been revealed, Paul very clearly declares that they had been revealed the Lord's holy apostles and prophets, among whom were Peter & John, just to name two. (for one more statemant Paul made as to his behaviour prior to becoming a Christian, see Gal. 1:13).

Rather than "cutting it straight" (with which I agree), those who separate the Apostles from the Church/Body of Christ are slicing the Scriptures (and the Church) into pieces that do not agree with each other.

Shalom... WAB

 

[twoedge]

I must say to start with, that this is not something I enjoy. Nevertheless I feel clarification is called for.

eph3Nine says that she... (and from what has been posted we may assume her husband agrees)...she believes that she is a member of the Church; the Body of Christ. But that the Church did not come into being until Paul showed the many mysteries that had been hidden until God revealed them through Paul, and that the original Apostles (including Peter) were not members of the Church/Body of Christ.

But what about the following, all of which was written by Paul?

1 Corinthians 12:28,29a... "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers?...."

Of course the answer to the questions (which continue on thru vs. 30) is no. What needs to be pointed out is that the apostles were set in the [C]hurch by God!

1Cor. 15:9... "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Strange isn't it that Paul was able to persecute "...the church of God." before it even came into existence?!

When Paul "...went up again to Jerusalem..." (Gal.2) to clarify with the apostles just what he was preaching, Paul says in 2:9a..."And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship..."

The word "fellowship" is the Greek koinoni'a, which means: "a joint participation with someone else, in things held in common by both."

What James, Peter and John held in common with Paul and Barnabas was membership in the Church by means of being 'In Christ". (By the way, Barnabas was sent to Syrian Antioch by the Apostles; was known as an apostle; and accompanied Paul on missionary work to Gentile unbelievers. Rather a contradictory partnership if the Apostles were not members of the Church or the Body of Christ.

Ehpesians 2:13-22... "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both (Jew and Gentile) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us: Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby; And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews). For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

See also Eph. 3:1-5 where Paul makes it crystal clear that: "(..when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit."

Far from claiming that he was the only one to whom the mysteries had been revealed, Paul very clearly declares that they had been revealed the Lord's holy apostles and prophets, among whom were Peter & John, just to name two. (for one more statemant Paul made as to his behaviour prior to becoming a Christian, see Gal. 1:13).

Rather than "cutting it straight" (with which I agree), those who separate the Apostles from the Church/Body of Christ are slicing the Scriptures (and the Church) into pieces that do not agree with each other.

Shalom... WAB

Very Good..


But I doubt very much whether it will have any effect on Eph9.

2e

 

[WAB]

Very Good..


But I doubt very much whether it will have any effect on Eph9.

2e

2e... You are probably correct, but hopefully some who might swallow the false teaching will at least have second thoughts.

Shalom...

 

[eph3Nine]

I must say to start with, that this is not something I enjoy. Nevertheless I feel clarification is called for.

eph3Nine says that she... (and from what has been posted we may assume her husband agrees)...she believes that she is a member of the Church; the Body of Christ. But that the Church did not come into being until Paul showed the many mysteries that had been hidden until God revealed them through Paul, and that the original Apostles (including Peter) were not members of the Church/Body of Christ.

What the BIBLE teaches is that the Body of Christ, of whom we are members and He our Head, was IN FACT, part of the body of truth that was GIVEN FIRST to Paul.

You wont find Peter and the boys speaking about the BODY...nowhere is it mentioned. WHY? Because the Body didnt EXIST until the revelation of the MYSTERY which was given to Paul specifically FOR us.

The "Church" which he persecuted, was the KINGDOM CHURCH, made up of jews who were believing the KINGDOM GOSPEL. They were called the little flock. Every time you see the word "church" in scripture does NOT mean its talking about US!

Please see the threads where we have already covered this quite extensively. They are entitled "The three churches mentioned in Scripture"...then there are three separate threads that deal with each mention of the word "church", that shows you what those three churches ARE. In fact, I will just REPOST them here for you, so you dont have to look for it. Very interesting material that will hopefully change the way you look at the word CHURCH forevermore....wink.

Also, please join us tonite on paltalk. Pastor Trent Cole will be opening a NEW LIVE bible study room, called "Gods Will Made Clear" with a question and answer time afterwards. Go to www.paltalk.com and download the free program...pick a nickname and then come on into the Christianity Section at 7 PM Central time...look for the room entitled "Gods Will Made Known"..I am the administrator of the room and my name in paltalk is Me4Paul. Would be happy to see you there. This guy is a wonderful teacher and you will get all your questions answsered in a professional and timely manner.

 

[eph3Nine]

What ARE the three churches mentioned in scripture?What IS the Church? Does it always refer to the Body of Christ?

The church is always the congregation of the saints of God in any particular age. In the Bible the church is never a building. The congregation, that is the saints, can meet in a house, a garage, an office building, or a backyard and the group will still be God’s church. It is always a group of believers or saints.

Throughout history, the people and purpose of the church changes as God progressively revealed his plans and purposes. Here are some examples of churches the Bible describes:

The Church in the wilderness
For example, the Bible says that Moses was in the ‘church in the wilderness’ (Acts 7:38). Yet, back in the wilderness, Jesus had not yet died on the cross, nor had he instituted any new covenant, nor had He revealed the revelation of the mystery to Paul!

Moses was part of the group of God’s ‘chosen people’, the nation Israel, which was brought out of Egypt as God’s firstborn (Deut 7:6, Exodus 4:22, Exodus 19:4). This congregation of saints operated mostly out of the Old Mosaic Covenant, and was preoccupied with following God’s law to inherit the covenant blessings.

The Church in the Temple
Under the New Testament, there were devout and faithful Jewish believers that preached the gospel of the kingdom and that Jesus was the Son of God. These members of God’s church were not under God’s Old Covenant, but where subject to God’s New Covenant.

They were participants in the pouring out of God’s Holy Spirit at Pentecost, and were supernaturally able to obey the law of God as it was written in their hearts. Led by Peter, this congregation of saints was preparing to go into the kingdom. As such the Bible says that,

“And all that believed were together, and had all things common; [45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. [46] They, CONTINUING DAILY WITH ONE ACCORD IN THE TEMPLE, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, [47] Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. “ – Acts 2:44-47

The Church, the Body of Christ
For us in this dispensation, when we trust in the gospel and are saved, we are placed into the body of Christ, which is the church (1 Cor 12:13, Col 1:24).

“Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.” – 1 Cor 12:27

Within this congregation of saints, Jesus Christ is the head and we are subject to him (Eph 5:23-32). We, who are saved, are each members of the congregation of the saints, the church, the Body of Christ.

You are the church
Members of the church, the Body of Christ, have a special standing distinct from the other churches. We do not go to a temple to worship God because we are the temple. Paul says,

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” – 1 Cor 3:16

Paul exhorts the Ephesian elders to ‘feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood” (Acts 20:28).

The Bible says, that he purchased YOU with a price, and that YOU are the temple of the Holy Ghost (1 Cor 6:19.20). Therefore, the church of God today is found in YOU! Wherever you are, the church is. That is why we are to glorify God in our body because God dwells in us, and so within us there is a ‘church service’ happening 24 hours a day! (Col 1:25, 1 Cor 3:16, eph 3:17)

Church Groups
Now there are many members of the Body of Christ, the church today. So when many members of the church get together, that assembly or congregation of saints is also called a church.

When a group of saints gets together to praise God, study His word, and to build each other up, the Bible calls them a church. For example, Paul writes to the ‘church at Ephesus’, and the ‘church of Galatia’, and the ‘church at Corinth’.

However, each one of us becomes part of the church as we are placed into the Body of Christ.

 

[eph3Nine]

Lets look at the THREE churches mentioned in scripture ONE BY ONE. This is Nbr. 1.

THREE BIBLE CHURCHES #1
THE CHURCH IN THE WILDERNESS

Acts 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

A. IT IS THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL
Exodus 40:38 For the cloud of the LORD was upon the tabernacle by day, and fire was on it by night, in the sight of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys.
Leviticus 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die, and lest wrath come upon all the people: but let your brethren, the whole house of Israel, bewail the burning which the LORD hath kindled.

B. MOSES WAS ITS HEAD AND KING
Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
Deuteronomy 33:4-5 Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob. 5 And he was king in Jeshurun, when the heads of the people and the tribes of Israel were gathered together.

C. IT WAS A HOLY NATION, A PECULIAR TREASURE, A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS
Exodus 19:5-6Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.


D. REDEEMED BY BLOOD OF LAMB
Exodus 12:3-7 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house: 4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats: 6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. 7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
Deuteronomy 7:8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

E. BORN.... AS GOD'S FIRSTBORN SON
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

F. BAPTIZED UNTO MOSES WITHOUT GETTING WET
1 Corinthians 10:1-2
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

G. RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD BECAUSE OF GOOD WORKS
Deuteronomy 6:24-25 And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

H. GET THEIR ATONEMENT AT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
Zechariah 13:1
in that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.
Acts 3:19-21 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Romans 11:26-27 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

I. THEY INHERIT THE EARTH AS THEIR KINGDOM
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Psalm 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

 

[eph3Nine]

The Three Churches in Scripture: Church Nbr 3 The Body of Christ

THREE BIBLE CHURCHES #3
THE CHURCH THE BODY OF CHRIST

Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

A. THE BODY OF CHRIST (NOT THE HOUSE)
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

B. CHRIST IS THE HEAD (NOT THE KING)
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

C. NOT A NATION, NOT A PRIESTHOOD
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
2 Corinthians 5:16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

D. REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD OF OUR SAVIOUR
Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Titus 2:13-14 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

E. NOT BORN OR REBORN BUT CREATED A NEW CREATION
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 4:24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Colossians 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
2 Corinthians 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

F. BAPTIZED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST...WITHOUT WATER
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Ephesians 4:5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

G. RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD WITHOUT ANY WORKS...OF THE LAW OR OTHERWISE
Galatians 2:16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Romans 3:24; 4:5 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

H. ATONEMENT A PRESENT POSSESSION BECAUSE OF THE CROSS
Romans 5:11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
Romans 5:1-2
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

I. WITH AN INHERITANCE IN HEAVENLY PLACES
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Colossians 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.


PLEASE print all these out and COMPARE them, and then tell me this is the same program! READ All the scriptures.

thank you

 

[eph3Nine]

2e... You are probably correct, but hopefully some who might swallow the false teaching will at least have second thoughts.

Shalom...

False teaching would imply that Paul was MISTAKEN that he was appointed as spokesman to the Body of Christ? It would also imply that God didnt know what He was talking about when He revealed NEW information to Paul that was specifically FOR us?

I guess God didnt know what He was saying when He told us that this message was HID IN HIM< and Kept SECRET since the world began????

Methinks you should take another look at who is behind the eight ball here. God doesnt make mistakes. He changed programs and just because YOU dont yet SEE it, doesnt mean that what is THERE is false teaching.

To try and put yourself under ISRAELS program is what is strongly discouraged in scripture...it even carries with it a CURSE. Watch out.

 

[WAB]

False teaching would imply that Paul was MISTAKEN that he was appointed as spokesman to the Body of Christ? It would also imply that God didnt know what He was talking about when He revealed NEW information to Paul that was specifically FOR us?

I guess God didnt know what He was saying when He told us that this message was HID IN HIM< and Kept SECRET since the world began????

Methinks you should take another look at who is behind the eight ball here. God doesnt make mistakes. He changed programs and just because YOU dont yet SEE it, doesnt mean that what is THERE is false teaching.

To try and put yourself under ISRAELS program is what is strongly discouraged in scripture...it even carries with it a CURSE. Watch out.

You go to great lengths to refute the plain message of Scripture that there is only one true Church, of which all true believers are members. You do make some true remarks, such as: "God doesn't make mistakes." And of course that sucks some ill-informed into thinking the rest of what you say is true.

I am so grateful to know and love Christians from Jewish ethnic heritage that see and know that IN CHRIST "...there is neither Greek (Gentile, same word) nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave (or "bond" if you prefer) nor free, but Christ is all and in all." (Col.3:11).

 

[FreeinChrist]

I must say to start with, that this is not something I enjoy. Nevertheless I feel clarification is called for.

eph3Nine says that she... (and from what has been posted we may assume her husband agrees)...she believes that she is a member of the Church; the Body of Christ. But that the Church did not come into being until Paul showed the many mysteries that had been hidden until God revealed them through Paul, and that the original Apostles (including Peter) were not members of the Church/Body of Christ.

But what about the following, all of which was written by Paul?

1 Corinthians 12:28,29a... "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers?...."

Of course the answer to the questions (which continue on thru vs. 30) is no. What needs to be pointed out is that the apostles were set in the [c]hurch by God!

1Cor. 15:9... "For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God."

Strange isn't it that Paul was able to persecute "...the church of God." before it even came into existence?!

When Paul "...went up again to Jerusalem..." (Gal.2) to clarify with the apostles just what he was preaching, Paul says in 2:9a..."And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship..."

The word "fellowship" is the Greek koinoni'a, which means: "a joint participation with someone else, in things held in common by both."

What James, Peter and John held in common with Paul and Barnabas was membership in the Church by means of being 'In Christ". (By the way, Barnabas was sent to Syrian Antioch by the Apostles; was known as an apostle; and accompanied Paul on missionary work to Gentile unbelievers. Rather a contradictory partnership if the Apostles were not members of the Church or the Body of Christ.

Ehpesians 2:13-22... "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For He is our peace, who hath made both (Jew and Gentile) one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us: Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that He might reconcile both to God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby; And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews). For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

See also Eph. 3:1-5 where Paul makes it crystal clear that: "(..when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit."

Far from claiming that he was the only one to whom the mysteries had been revealed, Paul very clearly declares that they had been revealed the Lord's holy apostles and prophets, among whom were Peter & John, just to name two. (for one more statemant Paul made as to his behaviour prior to becoming a Christian, see Gal. 1:13).

Rather than "cutting it straight" (with which I agree), those who separate the Apostles from the Church/Body of Christ are slicing the Scriptures (and the Church) into pieces that do not agree with each other.

Shalom... WAB

Excellent post!

 

[WAB]

REGARDING THE SUPPOSED DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE PENTECOST/JERUSALEM CHURCH AND THE BODY OF CHRIST CHURCH
​

After returning from their first missionary journey, Paul and Barnabas stayed in (Syrian) Antioch for “…a long time…” (Acts 14:28). Then Judaizers from the Jerusalem church came to Antioch and taught the brethren that they must be “circumcised after the manner of Moses…” in order to be saved. (Acts 15:1). After arguing with these Judaizers, Paul and Barnabas, along with some others, went to Jerusalem to settle the matter. (Acts 15:2-4).

Why would these two apostles go to those who, according to Grace School Of The Bible (and others) were not members of the Body of Christ, to settle this dispute?

After the conference in Jerusalem with the Apostles and elders, the Jerusalem church sent members “…of their own company…” Judas Barsabas and Silas, who were “…chief men among the brethren…” (in the Jerusalem church), to Antioch. (see: Acts 15:22).

According to G.S.O.T.B., these men were not members of the Body of Christ/Church.

These messengers bore a message from James and the other Apostles. When they had delivered the message (that James had dictated), to the (Syrian) Antioch church, the believers there “…rejoiced for the consolation.” (or, exhortation or encouragement).
(see: Acts 15:31).

Of course that message was not the sole invention of James and the other Apostles and elders, but “…it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us [them]…” (Acts 15:28).

It is incomprehensible to me that Paul, if he was the sole custodian and dispenser of “...the mystery…” (or mysteries) and the only Apostle who preached the truth concerning the Body/Church/Bride of Christ, ( as G.S.O.T.B. declares), would submit doctrinal disputes or questions to the other Apostles and elders who were supposedly not members of that Body/Church!

And not only so, but Paul obviously concurred with James’ and the other Apostles decision in the matter.

On the other hand, if, as I believe, James and Peter and the other Apostles and elders were indeed members of the Body, and did indeed hold an authoritative position in the Church, then Paul’s action and the action of the church in Antioch, in sending to the Jerusalem church for a resolution to their problem, is entirely legitimate and understandable.
W.A.B.

 

[eph3Nine]

Whoa whoa whoa.

You are ignoring all the scriptural evidence to the CONTRARY????

Sorry, sir, but Peter and the apostles were members of the KINGDOM Church...the BODY OF CHRIST was STILL HID IN GOD and STILL a SECRET, and NOT their program.

They understood it clearly...it is YOU who do not.

By the way, read the exchange at the Jerusalem council AGAIN...slowly. Peter and the boys "perceived"....that Paul taught something different and what they agreed to was to LIMIT their message/the Kingdom gospel/ to the Jews alone, just as they always had, and that PAUL would be the one to deliver the NEW gospel to the nations.

There was the gospel of the Circumcison , and the gospel of the UNcircumcision...read it in Gal. 2:7

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Count em...TWO distinct gospels. Both true, but ONLY ONE is the gospel that saves today. Its the MOST RECENT revelation that God gave to mankind...and its NOT Peters.

So, you can continue to show your ignorance of the scriptures, or you can swallow your pride, have a metanoia moment (change your mind based on what the scriptures DO say) and begin to allow God to ESTABLISH you in the faith with instructions given specifically to you and about you.

Anything else is merely blah blah blah, and not worth striving with you about.

 

[billychum]

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

Can't this mean, the same gospel but a different audience?

Billy <><

 

[WAB]

Can't this mean, the same gospel but a different audience?

Billy <><

Precisely! Unfortunately, I just spent quite a bit of effort (after logging in and coming to this forum) answering eph3Nine's last post, but when I tried to post the reply a notice popped up saying that either I was not logged in, or that I was prohibited from posting here, and then the whole post disappeared.

This is the second time in two days this has happened.

Well, to just brief it... Please give a careful reading to Acts 15, which shows unequivocally that the Apostles in Jerusalem and their representatives considered themselves "brethren" of the believers in Antioch, most of whom were of Gentile ethnic background.

Also, the Apostles arrived at that conclusion because of what the Holy Spirit had revealed to them.

Of course the church in Jerusalem had to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord just like Paul did. AND... thee and me.

Shalom...

 

[WAB]

Precisely! Unfortunately, I just spent quite a bit of effort (after logging in and coming to this forum) answering eph3Nine's last post, but when I tried to post the reply a notice popped up saying that either I was not logged in, or that I was prohibited from posting here, and then the whole post disappeared.

This is the second time in two days this has happened.

Well, to just brief it... Please give a careful reading to Acts 15, which shows unequivocally that the Apostles in Jerusalem and their representatives considered themselves "brethren" of the believers in Antioch, most of whom were of Gentile ethnic background.

Also, the Apostles arrived at that conclusion because of what the Holy Spirit had revealed to them.

Of course the church in Jerusalem had to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord just like Paul did. AND... thee and me.

Shalom...

Will just try to quote Acts 15:7 here, and see if it posts... "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, 'Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

And... "...we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." This is Peter speaking, and he is referring to the Gentile believers in Antioch of Syria.

The phrase "even as they" obviously means that Peter was equating the means of salvation for the Apostles, elders and brethren in Jerusalem with that of the Gentile believers in Antioch.

Shalom....

 

[WAB]

Will just try to quote Acts 15:7 here, and see if it posts... "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, 'Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

And... "...we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they." This is Peter speaking, and he is referring to the Gentile believers in Antioch of Syria.

The phrase "even as they" obviously means that Peter was equating the means of salvation for the Apostles, elders and brethren in Jerusalem with that of the Gentile believers in Antioch.

Shalom....

And... allow me to point out that it was Peter who was the first one God commissioned to take the "...word of the gospel..." to the Gentiles. (see Acts 15:7)

Rather strange that the Lord would have Peter take what has been referred to as a different gospel meant only for Jews to the Gentiles???

 

[jad123]

Well I really hate to do this BUT. You are BOTH wrong. The One True Church is the Roman Catholic Church.

hehehehe

 

[WAB]

Well I really hate to do this BUT. You are BOTH wrong. The One True Church is the Roman Catholic Church.

hehehehe

hehehehehe.

One up on ya!

 

[eph3Nine]

Can't this mean, the same gospel but a different audience?

Billy <><

Is that what it says?

Its most assuredly a different gospel for a NEW audience...Jews and gentiles alike. "The preaching of Jesus Christ according to the REVELATION OF THE MYSTERY which was kept secret since the world began."

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

One is SPOKEN...ONE is KEPT SECRET.

These arent the same...but DIFFERENT. Can you SEE that?

 

[eph3Nine]

And... allow me to point out that it was Peter who was the first one God commissioned to take the "...word of the gospel..." to the Gentiles. (see Acts 15:7)

Rather strange that the Lord would have Peter take what has been referred to as a different gospel meant only for Jews to the Gentiles???

Heres where you miss it. Peter went to a gentile, with much argument as he knew that God told them NOT to go unto the gentiles. God had to give Peter a special VISION to get him to go to Cornelius's house. However, Cornelius wasnt given a NEW gospel at all...he was saved by the same gospel Peter had ALWAYS preached. How do I know this. Because PAUL is the one given the NEW gospel, NOT Peter.

Yes, Cornelius was a gentile, but gentiles WERE saved under the KINGDOM gospel...NO MYSTERY HERE. The only thing different about Cornelius method of salvation is that he received the promise of the Spirit BEFORE he was water baptized. God was showing Peter that something NEW was indeed happening, but the same gospel was being preached to Cornelius. NO NEW MYSTERY information UNTIL PAUL.