Which Button Would You Push?

[(David)DD]

You need to ask God that question. Refer to 1 Sam 15:1-3.

And the ANSWER is in this passage with the reason and its recorded before Prophet Samuel and King Saul.

Exodus 17:8-16 THEN CAME AMALEK, and FOUGHT WITH ISRAEL in Rephidim. And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand. So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. But Moses hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword. And THE LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, WRITE THIS FOR A MEMORIAL IN A BOOK,, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: FOR I WILL UTTERLY PUT OUT THE REMEMBRANCE OF AMALEK FROM UNDER HEAVEN. And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi: FOR HE SAID, BECAUSE THE LORD HATH SWORN THAT THE LORD WILL HAVE WAR WITH AMALEK FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.

 

[public hermit]

That's like saying that trespassers who go driving through tall grassy fields are just murderers in the waiting; if they don't clear the area for reclined bodies before driving through

If they're trespassing, that's the least they can do.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Since according to the common bible God brings all the dead back -- they are "asleep"/"sleep" (the actual word used many times, old testament and new) and will be awakened...therefore if you try to suggest they are dead in a real way and won't wake up, then you are off into some other story than the one in the common bible. You'd have a new 'god' there quite unlike the one in the text in a very radical change.

This is not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting why is it moral to kill an infant with a sword.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

I guess I see God as beyond considerations of ethics. At least the God of the Bible.

Why?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

No human being can morally take another human being's life outside the bounds of God's permission. Because God's permission is needed, he must have authority to give that permission. Because he has authority to give that permission, which no person or group can rightly claim for themselves, there's not really a problem with God giving that permission.

This is of course separate from people wrongly claiming that they have God's permission to kill others. Such people are usually either power-mad political/military leaders, or crazy.

Yes, like Saul was told by God to kill all of the Amalekites even the infants. Why did He just not do it himself? And why is He just in killing infants?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

When contemplating the ethics and morality of such questions, I have to take a deep breath, and ponder the applicability of this question: What would George W. Bush do?

GWB never ordered the murder of an entire nation or to specifically kill the infants. God did in 1 Sam 15:3.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

If I'm reading the OP's inquiry correctly, it's not asking if God really said it or not, but if God said it, was he right to say it.

If you believe the bible is true then God said to Saul to kill all the infants.

 

[HARK!]

If they're trespassing, that's the least they can do.

So let's say that there was a couple having a picnic in the grass. Let's say that you could see the future; and you knew that the trespasser was going to drive right over them.

Would you jump out in front of the trespasser, and wave a flag to warn them to stop; or would you just push the button?

After all they were committing a crime against property; and would have most likely, very soon, been charged with murder.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

God can push B because he knows. We can't because we simply don't know enough.

He knows what?

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

And the ANSWER is in this passage with the reason and its recorded before Prophet Samuel and King Saul.

Exodus 17:8-16 THEN CAME AMALEK, and FOUGHT WITH ISRAEL in Rephidim. And Moses said unto Joshua, Choose us out men, and go out, fight with Amalek: to morrow I will stand on the top of the hill with the rod of God in mine hand. So Joshua did as Moses had said to him, and fought with Amalek: and Moses, Aaron, and Hur went up to the top of the hill. And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. But Moses hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword. And THE LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, WRITE THIS FOR A MEMORIAL IN A BOOK,, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: FOR I WILL UTTERLY PUT OUT THE REMEMBRANCE OF AMALEK FROM UNDER HEAVEN. And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi: FOR HE SAID, BECAUSE THE LORD HATH SWORN THAT THE LORD WILL HAVE WAR WITH AMALEK FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.

So Gods justification to kill infants is because he had an issue with Amalek?

 

[durangodawood]

Why?

Because that's how the Bible portrays Him. The ends of advancing the prospects of the Hebrews justifies any means.

 

[Clizby WampusCat]

Because that's how the Bible portrays Him. The ends of advancing the prospects of the Hebrews justifies any means.

Do you think what God did is moral?

 

[durangodawood]

Do you think what God did is moral?

Moral for a human? Of course not. But I can't know what's moral for God any more than I can know what's moral for a kangaroo or a tuna. The genocide command makes that plain.

This does make a total hash of the claim that God is "good" tho....if "good" is to mean anything comprehensible at all.

 

[Robban]

Amal of the Amalakites is or was the father of antisemitism,

the Amalakites are long gone, but their spirit is still alive.

Haman, Hitler, just two high water marks.


See James 1:12-19 as an example of how a thought can grow

become an action if not killed in it's infancy.

 

[(David)DD]

So Gods justification to kill infants is because he had an issue with Amalek?

Amalek make it issue by doing this.
Exodus 17:8 THEN CAME AMALEK, and FOUGHT WITH ISRAEL in Rephidim.

 

[Robban]

Amal of the Amalakites is or was the father of antisemitism,

the Amalakites are long gone, but their spirit is still alive.

Haman, Hitler, just two high water marks.


See James 1:12-19 as an example of how a thought can grow

become an action if not killed in it's infancy.

Stalin for example proclaimed that observing and study of Torah

was a criminal act with severe consequences.

 

[Paulomycin]

If there was a button A to kill all of the terrorists in a country that are going to in the future kill people and a button B to kill everyone in that country, what would you do?

Nothing?
Push the A button?
Push the B button?

Is this another variant of the trolley problem?

 

[Paulomycin]

You need to ask God that question. Refer to 1 Sam 15:1-3.

This is a form of total war. In the case of 1 Sam 15, God (being omniscient) has declared all the Amalekites terrorists. So yes, everyone including women and children are in category "A."

Did God owe the Amalekites a living? No.

 

[Paulomycin]

I am not judging God yet, just asking what kind of punishment is ever just if infants are being killed?

It's called The Doctrine of Total Depravity. Everyone's born in sin, and there are a ton of verses supporting it. God doesn't owe anyone anything, including babies. You do, but God doesn't. Your appeal to emotion fallacy ("zomg, babies") doesn't work either.

 

[Sketcher]

If you believe the bible is true then God said to Saul to kill all the infants.

Yep.

Yes, like Saul was told by God to kill all of the Amalekites even the infants. Why did He just not do it himself? And why is He just in killing infants?

God alone gives the right to life, and as such, God may take that away, even in the case of an infant.

As a King, God may delegate tasks if he so chooses. He judged that no Amalekites had the right to live anymore, and he sent Saul to carry out his judgment.