Where's he at?

[Space]

Everytime someone asks me if I believe in Christ, I can't give them a sure answer back. I can't prove if I believe in him or not. Is there a reason why I'm being kept in this state of unbelief, that is caused by the emptiness inside of me? I hear Christians say come to Christ... but my question is: Where's he at?

 

[Zeena]

Charles R Solomon, on freedom in Chirst Part1


[SIZE=+1]"A Guide to Freedom Through the Cross"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]by Charles R. Solomon, Ed.D.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]As you read this, you may be in the midst of turmoil. Man may have failed you and God may seem too distant to help. You may have grown up not feeling loved in a way that met your needs. You may never have accepted or loved yourself. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The sense of inadequacy a person can feel in coping with life may run the gamut from mild depression to thoughts of suicide. Because of this, your relationships with those you love may be at the breaking point - or may already be broken seemingly beyond repair. If you are at the point of mild despair or utter desperation, this message is tailored to your situation. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]God loved you enough to send a Person - His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ - to die on the cross for your sins, to raise Him again and to provide through Him all that is necessary for a victorious, abundant life. Today you either trust that His death met God's condition for the free pardon of your sins or you do not. If you do not, this simple message, and the diagrams to illustrate it, could transform your life as you receive His Life - the Life of the Lord Jesus Christ. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]It may be that you have trusted Christ for your salvation but now you are a struggling, defeated believer who has yet to find the way to victory in the Christian life. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If either of these situations describes your condition, please study the following thoughts with an open Bible and a prayer that God will illuminate these truths for you. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Your Design[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The Wheel Diagram depicts man as a three-part being consisting of spirit, soul and body (I Thess. 5:23). With the body, through the senses, we relate to our surroundings. The soul, or personality, consists of the functions of the mind, will and emotions. The soul enables us to relate to one another. The spirit enables us to transcend our abilities, limitations and circumstances as we are regenerated or reborn and indwelt by the Holy Spirit.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]The spirit is either related to Adam - Satan's family (see Line Diagram [below]) - or to Christ, God's family. We are born into the world as descendants of Adam and partakers of his nature. That means our spirits are dead to God and alive to Satan. We are in the wrong family! Since our lives came from our first father, Adam, and go back in an unbroken chain to him, we were actually in him when he sinned. Thus, we became sinners before we were physically born. This being the case, we are only doing what comes naturally when we commit sins (Rom. 3:23). Every life that remains in Adam will eventually end in Hell, as shown in the diagram (Rom. 6:23). Even though we may live very good lives, humanly speaking, we are separated from God unless and until we are born into His family by a spiritual rebirth.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Your Needs[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The word "salvation" (1) in the Wheel Diagram means we must have a spiritual birth. Only in this way can we leave the life of Adam and be born into the life of Christ, which is an eternal life, as depicted in the Line Diagram (John 3:3). To be born spiritually, we must recognize or confess that we are in the wrong life and therefore born sinners, with the unavoidable result that we have committed sins. Then we must accept Christ into our lives, because he died for our sins. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]In being born spiritually, those who receive the Spirit life of Christ into their spirits by faith become one spirit with Him (I Cor. 6:17). If they are to have victory over temptation and experience the peace of God in their lives, however, they must have assurance of their salvation. Assurance (2) must be based on the absolutes of God's inerrant Word or it will be fleeting at best. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Many who know (with their minds) that they have personally trusted the Lord Jesus Christ still lack genuine assurance because they have never felt saved. Due to emotional conflicts, many of which stem from childhood rejection, a person's feelings (or emotions) are seldom in harmony with the true facts, either as those facts are described in the Bible or as they exist in the physical world. How we feel things to be is likely to differ from how they really are until Christ becomes central in our lives and heals the damaged emotions. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The believer, old or new, must know that he enters into a secure, eternal spiritual relationship with God through the Lord Jesus Christ (John 5:24) and that he can rely upon and enjoy that security (3). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Though many believers know they have accepted Christ, few understand and experience the fact that they are accepted in Him. Most have been forced to earn acceptance on a human basis and feel they also must earn God's acceptance (4), though they have already been accepted entirely through their Christ Life (Eph. 1:6). Every believer is accepted, but many never accept their acceptance, or righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21), by faith.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Few, too, are those who make total commitment (5) or total surrender of their lives to the Lord Jesus Christ. This is an irrevocable decision in which we give God our permission to do anything He wishes in us, with us, to us or through us. We give up all our rights. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Frequently, circumstances degenerate into near chaos after we make such a decision, because God honors our request for Him to take complete control of our lives. If He is to take control then we must lose control, and that is a process that seldom gives us joy! The circumstances or persons God uses to bring us to the end of our control of our lives are often not in themselves spiritual. They sometimes inflict undeserved suffering, but it is just such suffering that accomplishes God's purposes in our lives (I Pet. 2:20-2 1; Phil. 1:23-30). At the time of the suffering or chastening (Phil. 3:10; Heb. 12:11), it seldom seems a cause for rejoicing, but it is the crucible that produces the holiness we long for. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]God's purpose for the believer is to conform him to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:29). Such conformity involves suffering. The "all things" of Romans 8:28 which work together for good are rarely seen as good in themselves, except in retrospect.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Your Inner Conflict[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The "S" at the center of the wheel [above] represents the self controlled life or "flesh" (KJV). The flesh is in ascendancy in the lives of most believers for their entire Christian experience. It seeks differing forms, depending upon the individual, to get its needs met by some thing or person in either a negative or a positive way. Money, material things, success, fame, sex, power or any of countless other things can drive or motivate a person and become his central focus when he is dominated by the self-life or flesh. Thus the "flesh" is merely the believer's attempt to live the Christian life in his own strength. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The "flesh," therefore, is a very serious problem for the Christian - as serious as idolatry. For when we replace the centrality of Christ with anything - even ourselves whatever we install on the throne of our lives becomes an idol. God must deal firmly with the flesh. And He does, usually by revealing the self-centered life's inability to cope until the believer, finding his situation unbearable, gives up on himself and becomes interested in exchanging the self-life for the Christ-life. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]So long as self (flesh) remains in control, the conflicts depicted in the "soul" (personality) part of the Wheel Diagram will continue. They may become worse with age and increasing responsibilities. Occasionally, a psychologically well-adjusted self-life can cope with circumstances for most of a lifetime, but the results are far from fulfilling. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The psychological deficiencies, along with the guilt (both real and imagined), combine to produce varying degrees of frustration in the self-controlled life. The frustration must be dealt with. Some choose to dump it on others in the form of blows-physical or verbal-while some are more fearful of retaliation and suppress their hostility as best they can. Others suppress anger and frustration because they blame themselves for every problem and annoyance they encounter. When hostility and frustration are suppressed, for whatever reason, they will have an impact in the mind or emotions or both. Internalized hostility or anger often results in depression and/or anxiety in the emotions. Some persons can use their minds to implement various distortions or denials of reality. This enables them to escape the necessity of dealing with the real problem, the self-life. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]When the psychological conflict drags on without remedy, however, it commonly results in somatic complaints, as illustrated in the diagram. The physical ailments, though real, actually are symptoms of a deeper problem-the self-life. So are the psychological problems depicted in the "soul" area. [/SIZE]

 

[Zeena]

Charles R Solomon on freedom in Christ Part2


[SIZE=+1]Your Deliverance[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]These psychological and physiological symptoms begin to disappear when one sees how God can deal with the root problem by dethroning the self-life. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The Line Diagram shows the "life out of death" principle- God's way of disposing of internal conflict. The horizontal line represents eternal life, the life of Christ. By definition, eternal indicates no beginning or end. It exceeds the boundaries of time. Since Christ is God, He has always lived and always will. His life is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Heb. 13:8). As portrayed at the left of the line, Christ "became flesh" (John 1: 14) and lived in a human body for some 33 years. Then, He was crucified, buried and raised from the dead on the third day (I Cor. 15:3-4). He continues to live today (Heb. 7:25). Note that eternal life is not only a present and future reality for the believer but also involves the eternal past. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]

[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Until we are born again (John 3:3) we are not in the life of Christ-eternal life-but we are in the spiritually dead life of Adam. One can readily see that if any one of our ancestors, represented by the hatch marks on the diagonal line, had been missing, we also would be missing. Physically speaking, our lives had beginning in Adam, so whatever happened to him also happened to us. When he sinned, we sinned. When he died (spiritually), we died-just as we would have died in our great grandfather if he had died before siringany children. Thus, since spiritual death is separation from God, we were all born dead (spiritually). We need forgiveness for our sins, but we also need life. The Lord Jesus Christ came to give us both-by dying for our sins and by giving us His resurrection life (John 10:10). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If you are a Christian, you already know this much. What you may not yet know is the following; For the believer, physical death is the gateway from life in the world and the presence of sin to life in Heaven and the presence of God. Similarly, another type of death is the gateway from the sinful life of Adam to the eternal life of Christ When a person is "born again," he in the same instant dies. He is born into the life of Christ but he simultaneously dies out of the life of Adam [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Christ comes into our lives when we believe in Him and are born again, but that is not all. We are also made 11 partakers" of His life-eternal life. Romans 6:3 says we are not only baptized into Jesus Christ (His life) but also into His death. We can't occupy two opposite lives at the same time-the life of Adam and the life of Christ.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Your Identity [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]When we receive Christ by faith, it means that His death on the cross counts as payment for our sins. But it means much more. It also means that we enter into a new life-one that extends forever into the past as well as into the future. To put it another way, we exchange our history in Adam-the bad and the good-for an eternal history in Christ. We inherit a new "family tree!" By becoming partakers of Christ's life, we become participants in His death, burial, resurrection, ascension and seating in the Heavenlies (Rom. 6:3-6; Gal. 2:20; Eph. 2:6). He only has one life, and this is the life we receive at our new birth (I John 5:11-12). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Unless and until we know by personal faith experience that we were crucified with Christ, we will continue to try to live for Christ, using the methods we learned in our old self-lives. The conflicts stemming from our history in Adam will go on plaguing and defeating us. But when, by faith, we take our rightful place at the Cross in union with Christ's death and resurrection, then-and only then can we truly "walk in newness of life" (Rom. 6:4b) where "old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Cor. 5:17). [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]The Cross experience (understanding experientially our crucifixion and resurrection with Christ) is the gateway into the Spirit-controlled life (Gal. 5:16). It is life out of death, victory out of defeat-the purpose and answer for suffering in the life of the believer. Our path to the Cross, as well as the Cross itself, is a path of suffering, but it is the only path that leads to the end of suffering. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Are you weary enough of your internal conflict and constant defeat to put an end to it by faith? Are you willing to die to all that you are so you can live in all that He is? To do so is to exchange the self-life for the Christ-life and be filled or controlled by the Holy Spirit. To refuse to do so is to continue a walk after the flesh and to grieve the Spirit with a continuation of conflict, suffering and defeat.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]Salvation Prayer [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If you are tired of the anguish that results from doing things your way, Christ will free you if you will sincerely commit yourself to let Him have His way. If you have never accepted Christ as your personal. Savior, your first need is to let God create you anew by giving you spiritual rebirth. You can be born again if you can honestly pray like this: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]"Heavenly Father, I have seen that I am a sinner, still in the life of Adam, and that I have committed sins. I believe you sent your only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, to die in my place for my sins. I also believe He rose again and now lives, and right now I receive Him into my spirit as my Savior. I surrender all that I am, all I have and all I shall be to you. I turn from my sins and my selfish ways to live my new life in Christ. Thank you for saving me. Amen." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Identification Prayer [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If you have prayed the "salvation prayer," you have been born again, for God says He gives to all who believe in Christ the privilege of becoming His children (John 1:12). Now, whether you prayed for salvation just now or in the past, praying an "identification prayer" may help you to experience Christ' s life of victory and peace. Before this prayer can be effective, you must be truly sick of your self-life; you must be under conviction by the Holy Spirit of trying to live the Christian life in your own strength, and you must be ready to give up control of your life. If this is your condition, pray in this manner. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]"Father, thank you for forgiving my sins and taking me out of the life of Adam and grafting me into the life of Christ. Now that I am in Christ, I believe that I was crucified with Him, buried with Him, raised with Him and that I am seated with Him at your right hand. From this moment on, I choose to have your son, Jesus Christ, live His life in me and through me. I consider myself dead to sin and alive to you, and I am counting on the Holy Spirit to make me aware when I forget my death with Christ and try to live His life for Him in my own human wisdom and energy. I choose to yield my total being to you as an instrument of righteousness, allowing no part of me to be used for sin. Thank you for making Christ and his life real to me. Glorify yourself through me. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen."[/SIZE]

 

[malckiah]

Hello friend, please read my testamony....the fullest version of it is posted in the testamony area on this site.......Jesus is with you at all times.......He is where you are!

 

[Zeena]

Charles R Soman on freedom in Christ Part3


If you have prayed the "salvation prayer," you have been born again, for God says He gives to all who believe in Christ the privilege of becoming His children (John 1:12). Now, whether you prayed for salvation just now or in the past, praying an "identification prayer" may help you to experience Christ' s life of victory and peace. Before this prayer can be effective, you must be truly sick of your self-life; you must be under conviction by the Holy Spirit of trying to live the Christian life in your own strength, and you must be ready to give up control of your life. If this is your condition, pray in this manner.

"Father, thank you for forgiving my sins and taking me out of the life of Adam and grafting me into the life of Christ. Now that I am in Christ, I believe that I was crucified with Him, buried with Him, raised with Him and that I am seated with Him at your right hand. From this moment on, I choose to have your son, Jesus Christ, live His life in me and through me. I consider myself dead to sin and alive to you, and I am counting on the Holy Spirit to make me aware when I forget my death with Christ and try to live His life for Him in my own human wisdom and energy. I choose to yield my total being to you as an instrument of righteousness, allowing no part of me to be used for sin. Thank you for making Christ and his life real to me.
Glorify yourself through me. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen."

Scriptural reference for assertations made br Dr Solomon

Here you are beloved!

1 Thessalonians 5:23
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:23
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 6:23
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 3:3
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:17
17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

John 5:24
24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

2 Corinthians 5:21
21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 Peter 2:20-21

20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Philippians 1:23-30

23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
25And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
26That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.
27Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
28And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; 30Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

Philippians 3:10
10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Hebrews 12:11
11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Romans 8:29
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:28
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

THE FLESH, in the King James Version, as referred to under the heading "Your Inner Conflict" Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Hebrews 13:8
8Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

John 1:14
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 Corinthians 15:3-4

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Hebrews 7:25
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

John 3:3
3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

John 10:10
10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

John 10:11
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Romans 6:3
3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:3-6

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Ephesians 2:6
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

1 John 5:11-12

11And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Romans 6:4b
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

2 Corinthians 5:17
17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Galatians 5:16
16This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

John 1:12
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[Zeena]

Did I mention MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!

 

[Adoniram]

Space-

I originally prepared this post for your other thread (the one about being blotted out of the book of life), but I might as well post it here.

I do see that you have a definite stumblingblock before you. You have indicated that you can't understand what you read in the Bible, your prayers don't seem to be getting through, you don't feel complete, and your search is unfruitful. I can tell you what the problem is, although you may not be ready or willing to hear it.

You say things like:

"Why are you telling me I'm a sinner?"
"What are people repenting from? The way God made them?"
"The knowledge of good and evil does not exist in life and neither am I a sinner.
"My question is, if it's not right for man to have the knowledge of good and evil, then why would it be right for God to?"
"Why would God need to send Christ here to take away people's guilt? People just don't need to hurt the feelings of others and then use their hurt feelings to their advantage over them in making them feel like low pathetic sinners!"

It show's that you are not accepting of what God has to say. In fact, you're essentially arguing with God, in a situation which you cannot possibly win. In some cases, you are even calling God a liar. Job also questioned God and God's response was "Who are you that questions without knowledge? Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me if you have understanding." (Job 38:1-4) Job was actually questioning the justice of God's dealings with him. God's response was essentially "before you think about criticizing me, you should ask yourself if you could manage the universe better." And through this, Job was able to see how powerless, ignorant, insignificant, inadequate, and finite he was.

This is exactly the conclusion you need to reach before your search will be fruitful. Right now, you're just a little full of yourself. "I guess it would make life very hard if you don't have pride in yourself." "...neither am I a sinner." You will never find the completeness that God has to offer with an attitude like that. You have to humble yourself, realize and acknowledge that you are a sinner in need of salvation, realize that you do need God, and acknowledge to God that you know you need him. That is what repentance is all about. And this is the point you have to reach in your life. Jesus said you must become as humble as a little child. (Mt. 18:1-4) "At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."

Based on what you have said in your posts, I don't think you are ready to admit to yourself that you are a sinner, under the penalty of sin, and that you need the salvation that belief in Jesus Christ provides. By persisting in this attitude you are essentially saying to God "I don't need you." I don't know if you are married or have a girlfriend, but if you took that attitude with them, do you think they would be very interested having anything to do with you? Probably not.

God wants to have a relationship, a fellowship with you, but he cannot until you are willing to admit your need. Repentance.

Where is Jesus?

He says "You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me." (Rev. :17-20)

He is but an earnest prayer of repentance away.

 

[Rafael]

We exist and have our being inside of God according to the scriptures, but there is no limitation to God and the ways He can manifest Himself towards His creation and revelation to man. God stands outside of the dimension we are trapped in called time and is able to transcend the boundries we cannot cross. Science is starting to approach and understand a little, mathematically, what the state of timelessness would be like, proving it completely possible in theory, but for us to imagine only experiencing "now" as opposed to a past and future reality is a bit difficult for us to wrap our minds around. If we could, we would see that God is able to be with us all, even those of the past, and that all men, past and present, will meet someday before Him in the "now" of eternity.
History of the man shows us that Jesus truly lived. Even critics and haters of Christ recorded His life and gave evidence that He indeed walked on earth and performed miracles that others attested to as magic and poer of demons. Constantly, archeology turns up more evidence that the Bible speaks of as true places and not mythological ones. Science is also constanlt proving the scriptures right, as we see more and more that it is the unseen that is more substantial to our existence than the seen. The scriptures first identified the "circle of he earth" when men of science and church still thought it flat. So, we have several evidences to Christ. The book, "A Case For Chrsit" is still a very good book I can recommend reading. Lee Strobel, the author, was an atheist who set out to once and for all prove the life of Christ as not reliable, truthful information but ended up being converted to faith in Him as Savior of mankind.
Know that God sees each person living as precious to His sight and that He is always near, transcending time and dimensions that we do not yet see but will someday realize and have eyes fit for seeing. He is at one place in time and in another at the same time, as we may perceive, because He transcends the boundaries of time for our benefit - much like it is to our benefit that He can be three persons in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God is not limited to just the frame of man, but goes beyond.
We are called to fight evil in this life. First of all, realizing the sin and death nature we are born with and humbly asking God to help us overcome it. By faith, we receive it and realize it through life. Life diesn't happen all at once, so neither does His answers to our prayers.They happen surely and with each day in and day out we can meditate upon the things life has brought to us in answer for that period of time. So, we have a job to do that is important and effects the rest of mankind. We are responsible for our brothers and sisters in this world - for their well-being. No longer can we blame God, but must see that it is our own choices and sin that allows peoples of the world to starve to death or go homeless and suffering. Our neglect to act and live an answer, choosing personal comfort, and so often, only selfish ego, is what causes others to live and die in ignorance and squallor. I find comfort in knowing that all these people are not lost to God and that they will all see justice someday, being part of the resurrection and judgment to stand for their part before righteous, merciful God.
I'm very glad God has such ower over all things and that He is fully trustworthy to take care of all things in the end. He causes even evil to turn out for good, making all things work together for good, to them that love God and are the called acording to His purpose. His great purpose is love, and eventually love will win out over all the evil that gives choice and free-will to mankind to love God back. Unfortunately, many are deceived into seperation by the devil who uses evil to inspire chaos, lies, and lawlessness among men.

Joh 8:32 And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Ac 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

 

[Space]

Adoniram: Thanks for your responce! I have some things to add to some of the things you said.

It show's that you are not accepting of what God has to say. In fact, you're essentially arguing with God, in a situation which you cannot possibly win. In some cases, you are even calling God a liar.

One of the things Paul writes, when referring to homosexuals, is that they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, so God gave up on them. I am not straight and I don't know who exactly Paul is referring to in Romans 1, but I think that would be a lie about myself. I didn't even know what was going on when I turned out to be attracted to males at the age of 6 or 7.

Right now, you're just a little full of yourself. "I guess it would make life very hard if you don't have pride in yourself." "...neither am I a sinner."

The "neither am I a sinner" statement was related to having the knowledge of good and evil. I don't think that's what God wanted Adam and Eve to have. I think he wants us to have the knowledge of the truth and believe it. From my understanding, the knowledge of good and evil is having the knowledge that things are either good or bad. On the sixth day of creation, I read that all God created was very good. Weren't Adam and Eve created naked? And didn't the serpent want them to realize that they were naked, which later on caused them to feel shameful of themselves (even though they felt shameful of the way God made them)? Why would you let someone know that they're wicked and need to repent, if they are who they are because that's the way God made them? I will admit that I haven't always been right in my beliefs.

As far as the "I'm full of myself" statement, if you've ever met me, you'd know that I'm a pretty laid back person. I'm not the kind of person who's gonna be a jerk to your face as it's not in my heart to do so. I do get frusterated and have a lot of questions that I can't think about all at once. I think it's more frustration than being full of myself.

 

[Adoniram]

The "neither am I a sinner" statement was related to having the knowledge of good and evil. I don't think that's what God wanted Adam and Eve to have. I think he wants us to have the knowledge of the truth and believe it. From my understanding, the knowledge of good and evil is having the knowledge that things are either good or bad. On the sixth day of creation, I read that all God created was very good. Weren't Adam and Eve created naked? And didn't the serpent want them to realize that they were naked, which later on caused them to feel shameful of themselves (even though they felt shameful of the way God made them)? Why would you let someone know that they're wicked and need to repent, if they are who they are because that's the way God made them? I will admit that I haven't always been right in my beliefs.

As far as the "I'm full of myself" statement, if you've ever met me, you'd know that I'm a pretty laid back person. I'm not the kind of person who's gonna be a jerk to your face as it's not in my heart to do so. I do get frusterated and have a lot of questions that I can't think about all at once. I think it's more frustration than being full of myself.

Hello again!

I was worried that you might be offended by my statement "you are just a little full of yourself." Agreed, it may have been a little strong, considering I do not know you, but I made it in response to the tone of some of your earlier statements, mainly the ones implying that you don't think you are a sinner. It takes quite a self-righteous attitude to be able to make those kinds of statements. Anyway, I'm glad you "took it in stride" without flaming out on me, and also thank you for the additional insight into your character.

Let me address your concerns about Adam and Eve. You are correct that all that God created was good, in fact it was perfect. Adam and Eve were created in perfection. There was no disease, their bodies did not degenerate, they would have lived forever. And the Bible says that they walked with God. God would manifest himself in the Garden and talk to them directly. They had fellowship together, and there was harmony. This is what God wanted, and the reason for their creation. God's desire was to love and be loved by them.

Now Satan was once the most beautiful and glorious of God's angels. He was probably the angel that enjoyed the highest position in God's hierarchy. But he became obsessed with his beauty, glory, and position, and he wanted more. He said in his heart "I will be like the Most High." (Is. 14:14) His pride and jealousy came between him and God, and because of it, God stripped him of his position and authority. Satan became the enemy of God and continues to seek to ruin all that God does.

Have no doubt, Satan is and has always been a very powerful being. And one of his most powerful weapons is placing doubt in people's minds about what God has said.

When God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden, they were perfect, and innocent, and yes, naked. You have to understand that nakedness, when exercised in God's perfect will, is not shameful, not wrong. You can see this today- looking at a naked baby does not induce feelings of shame; sex or nakedness in marriage doesn't either. This is because babies are innocent, and marriage was an institution of God and part of his will. So Adam and Eve were not ashamed of their nakedness while they were in a state of innocence and perfection.

I think you are correct that God didn't want Adam and Eve to have the knowledge of evil. Don't you try to shield your loved ones from bad things? He desired that they live in perfect harmony with him. But he did create them with freedom of choice, free will. This is demonstrated in that God gave Adam authority in naming the animals and the maintenance of the Garden. And God desired that they love and obey him of their own free will. Nothing was to be forced on them. I agree with many Biblical scholars that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was placed in the Garden to test their will to be obedient to his will. We can see this because after placing them in a perfect world with everything they could possibly need or desire, he gave them instructions not to eat the fruit of the ToKoG & E or they would die. This "death" is twofold, meaning physical death and spiritual death. It is probably certain that Adam and Eve didn't understand what this implied, God couldn't go into detail without exposing them to the knowledge of evil, but then, understanding isn't necessary for obedience.

Enter Satan. He didn't give a hoot about whether A & E knew they were naked, his only desire was to disrupt God's perfect world. So he placed doubt in Eve's mind which led her to question and ultimately disobey God. Their shame at their nakedness is a secondary issue to the fact that they knew they had disobeyed God and didn't want to face him because of it. More correctly, it was sorrow because they realized their error. With their sin, God's perfection was broken. Sorrow and pain immediately entered the world. God placed a curse upon the ground and their physical bodies, which began degenerating to the point of death. In sinning, the spiritual bond they had with God was severed, and spiritual death came upon them. And because of Adam and Eve's new-found knowledge of good and evil, the ability to sin entered the world and passed on to all men since.

Why would you let someone know that they're wicked and need to repent, if they are who they are because that's the way God made them?

They were no longer the "way God made them." God made them perfect, but they corrupted themselves and did so of their own choosing. So many people try to use "that's the way God made me" as an excuse. But that's not really the case is it? When you come into the world, you are innocent, but as you grow, your parents try to teach you right from wrong. And at some time in your youth, your decisions become your own to make, right or wrong. These decisions can be made in alignment with God's will or in opposition to God's will.

One of the things Paul writes, when referring to homosexuals, is that they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, so God gave up on them. I am not straight and I don't know who exactly Paul is referring to in Romans 1, but I think that would be a lie about myself. I didn't even know what was going on when I turned out to be attracted to males at the age of 6 or 7.

In this admission, I think the source of your frustration and searching finally comes out. The Bible does say that in God's eyes, homosexuality is an abomination. (Lev. 18:22) Like he did with Eve, in casting doubt about what God said, Satan has placed the lie in your mind that "homosexuality is okay because God made you that way." But let me defer to what William MacDonald has to say in the Believer's Bible Commentary:

"It is true that some people seem to have a natural tendency toward homosexuality. This should not be surprising, since fallen human nature is capable of just about any form of iniquity and perversion. The sin does not consist in the inclination toward it but in yielding to and practicing it. The Holy Spirit gives the power to resist the temptation and to have lasting victory (1Co_10:13). Some of the Christians in Corinth were living proofs that homosexuals need not be irrevocably bound to that lifestyle (1Co_6:9-11).
The gospel offers pardon and forgiveness to homosexuals, as it does to all sinners who repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Christians who have fallen into this heinous sin can find forgiveness and restoration through confessing and forsaking the sin. There is complete deliverance from homosexuality to all who are willing to obey God's word. Ongoing counseling assistance is very important in most cases."

Paul does indeed talk about God giving up on people in certain cases. But, I don't think that you, Space, are one of those that God has given up on yet. The reason is that he has placed it in your heart to search for the truth. He is still working to bring you into repentance. The ball is really in your court. The question is: are you willing to admit to God, and yourself, that you are a sinner, in need of a Savior from the consequences of sin? Do you want the life-giving change that Christ can make in your life? Christ is able to deliver you.

Hoping you have a Very Merry Christmas!

 

[heron]

A local historian wrote about the impact he had on the community, but whether he was sent by God, was God, was the Messiah -- those are intangible issues.

 

[Space]

Hey Adoniram!

Don't worry about it, you didn't offend me.

By persisting in this attitude you are essentially saying to God "I don't need you." I don't know if you are married or have a girlfriend, but if you took that attitude with them, do you think they would be very interested having anything to do with you? Probably not.

God wants to have a relationship, a fellowship with you, but he cannot until you are willing to admit your need. Repentance.

I'm just wondering, how would an "I don't know if you are married or have a girlfriend" attitude cause God not to be interested in having anything to do with someone? It's not like strangers can't get to know each other, if they wanted to.

Let me address your concerns about Adam and Eve. You are correct that all that God created was good, in fact it was perfect. Adam and Eve were created in perfection. There was no disease, their bodies did not degenerate, they would have lived forever. And the Bible says that they walked with God. God would manifest himself in the Garden and talk to them directly. They had fellowship together, and there was harmony. This is what God wanted, and the reason for their creation. God's desire was to love and be loved by them.

Here's some verses I'd like to bring up...

And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Genesis 19:5 (King James Version)

The two men said to Lot, "Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."

So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, "Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!" But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.
Genesis 19:12-14 (New International Version)

You had mentioned that God manifested himself to Adam and Eve and talked to them. According to the Bible, this would also be true for Lot. One of the verses I posted above, I posted in the King James Version, because the New International Version says that the men of Sodom asked Lot to bring the two men, who appeared to him, out so they could have sex with them. I think the King James Version gives a more clear word than sex. It says that wanted to know them. The two men, who came to Lot, were what God had manifested himself to Lot as. As you can clearly see when the two men told Lot to bring anyone in the city of Sodom, who belongs to him, out of there, because they were going to destroy that place. The two men then go on to say that, because of an outcry to the LORD against the Sodomites was so great, that the LORD had sent them to destroy the city. Right after this Lot tells his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters, to get out of the place, because it was the LORD who was going to destroy it. But before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the men of Sodom wanted to know those two men and have a relationship with them. To me, when the men of Sodom were turned away, by Lot, that caused them to get angry, because they probably thought they were being rejected by God. Christ says that whoever comes to him, he will never drive away. But it looks like the men of Sodom were trying to do that, but Lot asked them to do what he wanted them to do. Not what they wanted to do, which was to have a relationship with God. The irony of that story comes when the LORD had rained down burning sulfur on the Sodomites, who wanted to know him and have a relationship with him.

 

[Adstar]

Hey Adoniram!

Don't worry about it, you didn't offend me.



I'm just wondering, how would an "I don't know if you are married or have a girlfriend" attitude cause God not to be interested in having anything to do with someone? It's not like strangers can't get to know each other, if they wanted to.



Here's some verses I'd like to bring up...



You had mentioned that God manifested himself to Adam and Eve and talked to them. According to the Bible, this would also be true for Lot. One of the verses I posted above, I posted in the King James Version, because the New International Version says that the men of Sodom asked Lot to bring the two men, who appeared to him, out so they could have sex with them. I think the King James Version gives a more clear word than sex. It says that wanted to know them. The two men, who came to Lot, were what God had manifested himself to Lot as. As you can clearly see when the two men told Lot to bring anyone in the city of Sodom, who belongs to him, out of there, because they were going to destroy that place. The two men then go on to say that, because of an outcry to the LORD against the Sodomites was so great, that the LORD had sent them to destroy the city. Right after this Lot tells his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters, to get out of the place, because it was the LORD who was going to destroy it. But before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the men of Sodom wanted to know those two men and have a relationship with them. To me, when the men of Sodom were turned away, by Lot, that caused them to get angry, because they probably thought they were being rejected by God. Christ says that whoever comes to him, he will never drive away. But it looks like the men of Sodom were trying to do that, but Lot asked them to do what he wanted them to do. Not what they wanted to do, which was to have a relationship with God. The irony of that story comes when the LORD had rained down burning sulfur on the Sodomites, who wanted to know him and have a relationship with him.

The KJV bible uses the term "to know them" as an old fashoned way of saying to have sexual intercorse with them.

Here is a few clear examples

Matthew 1 KJV
22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Jospeh did not have sexual relations with mary untill after she had given birth to Jesus.

Genesis 4:1
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD

Genesis 4:17
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

1 Samuel 1
19And they rose up in the morning early, and worshipped before the LORD, and returned, and came to their house to Ramah: and Elkanah knew Hannah his wife; and the LORD remembered her. 20Wherefore it came to pass, when the time was come about after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son, and called his name Samuel, saying, Because I have asked him of the LORD.

The men of sodom where seeking to have sex with the two, Not to find out about them.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Space]

The KJV bible uses the term "to know them" as an old fashoned way of saying to have sexual intercorse with them.

Here is a few clear examples

Matthew 1 KJV
22Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
24Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: 25And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Jospeh did not have sexual relations with mary untill after she had given birth to Jesus.

Genesis 4:1
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD

Genesis 4:17
And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

1 Samuel 1
19And they rose up in the morning early, and worshipped before the LORD, and returned, and came to their house to Ramah: and Elkanah knew Hannah his wife; and the LORD remembered her. 20Wherefore it came to pass, when the time was come about after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son, and called his name Samuel, saying, Because I have asked him of the LORD.

The men of sodom where seeking to have sex with the two, Not to find out about them.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

What the Sodomites wanted wasn't wrong. They were not accepted for who they really were. Whoever it was who destroyed those cities were wrong in what they did I will take any punishment to make what they did wrong. Whoever thinks that what those two men/angels/lords/whatever did was right then they should think again on that.

 

[Harlan Norris]

Everytime someone asks me if I believe in Christ, I can't give them a sure answer back. I can't prove if I believe in him or not. Is there a reason why I'm being kept in this state of unbelief, that is caused by the emptiness inside of me? I hear Christians say come to Christ... but my question is: Where's he at?

Accepting Jesus,is accepting his gospel. The heartfelt desire to do his two commandments is present in the true believer. Through this gospel, we overcome the evil in our own heart. That is reflected in our actions. Our actions are seen by others,who are moved by our quite unusual behavior. They comment on it,and we witness to them. Our witness is backed up by our behavior,which the potential convert has already seen. This gives the ring of truth to our witness that mere words cannot.

 

[Adoniram]

I'm just wondering, how would an "I don't know if you are married or have a girlfriend" attitude cause God not to be interested in having anything to do with someone? It's not like strangers can't get to know each other, if they wanted to.

What I meant was, if you said to your mate (or just a friend in general) "I don't need you," or "I don't care about you or what you have to say," and persisted in that attitude, do you think that they would want to have a relationship with you for very much longer? If you totally rejected someone, don't you think they would eventually go away, to leave you alone so as not to bother you anymore?

You had mentioned that God manifested himself to Adam and Eve and talked to them. According to the Bible, this would also be true for Lot. One of the verses I posted above, I posted in the King James Version, because the New International Version says that the men of Sodom asked Lot to bring the two men, who appeared to him, out so they could have sex with them. I think the King James Version gives a more clear word than sex. It says that wanted to know them. The two men, who came to Lot, were what God had manifested himself to Lot as. As you can clearly see when the two men told Lot to bring anyone in the city of Sodom, who belongs to him, out of there, because they were going to destroy that place. The two men then go on to say that, because of an outcry to the LORD against the Sodomites was so great, that the LORD had sent them to destroy the city. Right after this Lot tells his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters, to get out of the place, because it was the LORD who was going to destroy it. But before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the men of Sodom wanted to know those two men and have a relationship with them. To me, when the men of Sodom were turned away, by Lot, that caused them to get angry, because they probably thought they were being rejected by God. Christ says that whoever comes to him, he will never drive away. But it looks like the men of Sodom were trying to do that, but Lot asked them to do what he wanted them to do. Not what they wanted to do, which was to have a relationship with God. The irony of that story comes when the LORD had rained down burning sulfur on the Sodomites, who wanted to know him and have a relationship with him.

What the Sodomites wanted wasn't wrong. They were not accepted for who they really were. Whoever it was who destroyed those cities were wrong in what they did I will take any punishment to make what they did wrong. Whoever thinks that what those two men/angels/lords/whatever did was right then they should think again on that.

Adstar already addressed the term "know" in the Biblical sense, so let me go on.

God is righteous and just. You can rest assured that if the intents of the men of Sodom were as you say, God would not have destroyed them. However, God knew what was in their hearts. Job speaking to the Lord said "I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee." (Job 42:20) The Psalmist says "O lord, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways." (139:1-3) There was no intent in the hearts and minds of the men of Sodom and Gomorrah to "get to know God better." If you know the story, you know that God saw fit to let Abraham know that he intended to destroy S & G. But Abraham pleaded with the Lord saying "Will you destroy the righteous along with the wicked?" So the Lord relented saying eventually that if Abraham could find ten righteous people in S & G, he would not destroy them. But they could not find even ten; only Lot, his wife, and two daughters. So the judgment came.

God, as I said, is just and holy. He cannot allow sin to go unpunished. He must judge the wicked and sinners. The verdict has already been rendered. (Rom. 3:23) The punishment has already been set. (Rom. 6:23) But God is not without mercy. He made provision for S & G to escape destruction (finding ten righteous people there), and he has also provided a means of escaping judgment and punishment for all men. That is in obedience to his will through belief in Jesus Christ. By virtue of the fact that we are all sinners, we owe a debt to God. Jesus paid that debt. Those who believe that, repent and turn from their sinful ways, and resolve to try to live in accordance with God's desires will escape that punishment. The great thing about God is that once we decide to believe in Jesus, and strive to be obedient to his will, he promises to forgive and forget our sins, and they are no longer held against us. This can mean giving up some of our old desires and ways, but he gives us the will to do so.

I know you are trying to find justification, or at least absolution, for your lifestyle in the Bible. But you will not find it. It is a sin which God cannot and will not abide. It's no greater or lesser than any other sin, just one of many, and the penalty is the same for all. But if you put your trust in God, he can and will help you with those desires. 1 Cor. 10:13 "No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it." But, God cannot help you if you have no desire to change or for his help.

I know it's tough. I wrestle with the temptation of various sins everyday. Sometimes I am successful in overcoming and sometimes not. And you won't find many Christians that say they don't have trouble with it.

I hope you can find a way to understand this and believe.

 

[hlaltimus]

Everytime someone asks me if I believe in Christ, I can't give them a sure answer back. I can't prove if I believe in him or not. Is there a reason why I'm being kept in this state of unbelief, that is caused by the emptiness inside of me? I hear Christians say come to Christ... but my question is: Where's he at?

There are a number of legitimate answers that you will get to this good question, and here is only one:
You will find Christ in the truth. His very name is called "the truth" in John 14:6. This will save you alot of wasted time....You will never, ever, ever find the God of Truth in an area where a lie is currently residing. Seek for the truth will all of you heart, and I cannot think of a better place to start with than the Word of God, the Holy Bible. You will find the God of truth when you find and stand in the truth of God. It is a very simple principle, but very necessary.

 

[heron]

You must have done a lot of reading, to find this one.

What the Sodomites wanted wasn't wrong.

The passage is confusing to most people who run across it. Whether you believe this type of relationship is wrong or not, the situation was very similar to a lynching... imposing, intrusive, and brutal.

The men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.

...they said, "Stand aside." Furthermore, they said, "This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them." So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
​

The crowds' request was threat of mass rape. If not intended that way, the statement showed no concern for the personality, interests, dreams of the people propositioned. It was a demand to destroy someone through group rape, to use someone to satiate their greed for dominance.

that the LORD had sent them to destroy the city.

These messengers were not necessarily angels, and maybe not even devoted believers...although they probably were. The Hebrew word is often used for angel, but means messenger, or representative.

Many times, God speaks of sending groups that don't follow Him.

2Ki 24:2
The Lord sent against him bands of Chaldeans, bands of Arameans, bands of Moabites, and bands of Ammonites.

Ezekiel 23:22
Behold I will arouse your lovers against you, from whom you were alienated,

and I will bring them against you from every side: the Babylonians and all the Chaldeans,Pekod and Shoa and Koa, and all the Assyrians with them;

desirable young men, governors and officials all of them, officers and men of renown, all of them riding on horses.

...And I will commit the judgment to them, and they will judge you according to their customs.
​

 

[Space]

The passage is confusing to most people who run across it. Whether you believe this type of relationship is wrong or not, the situation was very similar to a lynching... imposing, intrusive, and brutal.

The men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.

...they said, "Stand aside." Furthermore, they said, "This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them." So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
​

The crowds' request was threat of mass rape. If not intended that way, the statement showed no concern for the personality, interests, dreams of the people propositioned. It was a demand to destroy someone through group rape, to use someone to satiate their greed for dominance.
​

My guess is, they were probably angry because Lot wouldn't let the men of Sodom hang out with the two men. And they might have been homosexuals. Maybe they wanted to know if the two men loved them or even liked them and maybe it just made them angry that they weren't able to figure this out. They might have thought they were being excluded from the group and that caused the Sodomites to get angry at not only Lot, but also the two men. What the Sodomites said to Lot might've just been out of anger. It might've been possible that those men never had any intention on raping or hurting those two men. Also, the Sodomites don't mention what they mean when they say that they'll treat Lot worse then the two men. Although, they do mention something about playing the judge. Treating them badly, in this situation, might've just meant getting all the anger out of their hearts by arguing with the two men.

Again, I'm just guessing on this. I'm not straight and if there was ever a hot guy I knew of, knowing that the guy liked me was always something I really wanted to know. It's not like I wanted to have sex with him... just to hang out with him and be his friend.

 

[salida]

Space--

He is where you are. Have you asked the Holy Spirit into your heart? You will get the power to live a christian life with His Spirit. Its a real spiritual experience. Also, christianity isn't some religion that came out of someones imagination. Besides being a spiritual decision, christianity is also an intellectual one. If one were to choose a religion by intellect, it would be christianity. Read Examine the Evidence by Muncaster(athiest to a christian conversion). Just one book out of many.

As you grow in Christ, your faith will grow and you will be assured with the Holy Spirit that He is with you all the time.