Where was Yahshua for the Three Days Before He was Risen?

[HARK!]

No, don't do that please. Don't answer my question with leading questions like I'm a toddler. Just explain your point, then we can go from there.

I believe that this verse is speaking of Yahshua. If you have evidence to the contrary; I look forward to reviewing it objectively.

 

[Freedm]

I believe that this verse is speaking of Yahshua. If you have evidence to the contrary; I look forward to reviewing it objectively.

It is Jesus, but that doesn't answer my question. I said Jesus didn't have a spirit, but he became a spirit when he was resurrected. Then you posted this verse.

John 3:34 CJB
because the one whom God sent speaks God's words. For God does not give him the Spirit in limited degree --

So what point are you trying to make with this verse?

 

[HARK!]

It is Jesus, but that doesn't answer my question. I said Jesus didn't have a spirit, but he became a spirit when he was resurrected. Then you posted this verse.

John 3:34 CJB
because the one whom God sent speaks God's words. For God does not give him the Spirit in limited degree --

So what point are you trying to make with this verse?

That you are mistaken.

 

[chad kincham]

Please be more careful with the English translation of the Bible. The word translated as "hell" there is sheol, which is simply the state of death, or the "underworld" which refers to the earth to which we return when we die (dust you are and to dust you will return).

David is saying "You will not leave me in death (but you will bring me back to life), neither will you allow Jesus to decay in death.". This is no confirmation whatsoever of what you call "hell".

There’s just tons of confirmation about hell in the Bible, especially Luke 16 where Jesus says the rich man died and went to hell, it was in torments there.

Plus scripture says that when Jesus died he descended into the lower parts of the earth and preach to spirits in prison there

And when he ascended he took those spirits in prison with him, which is why Scripture says many saints arose from the dead and went into the city after the resurrection of Jesus.

On top of that scripture says there are beings under the earth to speak.

Hell is not the grave. There are a lot of scriptures proving that the soul and the spirit leave the body at death, they do not sleep in the dirt.

Paul says in second Corinthians chapter 5 that our body is a house that we live in, that we leave at death.

 

[HARK!]

Hell is not the grave. There are a lot of scriptures proving that the soul and the spirit leave the body at death, they do not sleep in the dirt.

They?

Did you read Post #9?

 

[Freedm]

That you are mistaken.

Communication is not your strong suit, is it?

 

[Freedm]

There’s just tons of confirmation about hell in the Bible, especially Luke 16 where Jesus says the rich man died and went to hell, it was in torments there.

Plus scripture says that when Jesus died he descended into the lower parts of the earth and preach to spirits in prison there

And when he ascended he took those spirits in prison with him, which is why Scripture says many saints arose from the dead and went into the city after the resurrection of Jesus.

On top of that scripture says there are beings under the earth to speak.

Hell is not the grave. There are a lot of scriptures proving that the soul and the spirit leave the body at death, they do not sleep in the dirt.

Paul says in second Corinthians chapter 5 that our body is a house that we live in, that we leave at death.

All misunderstandings. You're right when you say hell is not the grave, but sheol is the grave and sheol is the word that was incorrectly translated as hell.

Did you know that the word hell in our English translations is derived from four different words? Those words are Sheol, Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus and if you compare the translations of these words you'll find that the Bible translators were very inconsistent in their translations, especially the King James version.

For example, King James translates the word "sheol" as "hell" 31 times, but they also translated the word "sheol" as "the grave" 31 times. What's worse is that the King James translators used the word "hell" when it was regarding the wicked dying, but translated the same word as "the grave" when it was concerning the righteous dying. That's a blatant bias designed to shape the thinking of the reader.

Hades is the Greek counterpart for Sheol. Sheol being the Hebrew word, Hades the Greek, but both meaning "the grave". Now if you look at some new testament verses for example of the use of the word Hades the KJV translates it as "grave" in 1 Corinthians 15:55 (O death where is thy sting? O grave where is thy victory?) but they translate the same word Hades as hell in Luke 10:15 (And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell). This is simply dishonest.

Did you know the NIV does not even use the word hell in the old testament at all? That's because they correctly translated the Hebrew word sheol as the grave each time. Though sadly they lost their penchant for accuracy when it came to the New Testament.

In Matthew 5:29 for example Jesus spoke of Gehenna, though most English Bibles (including the NIV) translate the word as "hell".

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell (Gehenna).

In this example, Jesus was actually speaking about a physical fiery death in the garbage dump in the valley of Gehenna outside of Jerusalem where the pagans used to sacrifice their children in fire. So to use the word "hell" here, conjuring up images or a fiery place of eternal torment in the after life, is very misleading.

 

[Freedm]

There are a lot of scriptures proving that the soul and the spirit leave the body at death, they do not sleep in the dirt.

There are a few scriptures that hint at this concept but none in the old testament. In fact the old testament is clear that dust you are and to dust you shall return. King Solomon said that the dead know nothing and every single person who was described as dying in the old testament was said to "sleep with his fathers".

Here's the proof: BibleGateway - Keyword Search: slept with his fathers

The old testament is clear, in those days, death really meant death. When you died, you stopped thinking, knowing, being. You simply returned to the earth as God said we would.

After Jesus' resurrection however things changed, but in the old testament death was death.

(p.s. you really should nail down the difference between soul and spirit before you make any conclusions because "they" are not the same thing)

 

[Freedm]

There’s just tons of confirmation about hell in the Bible, especially Luke 16 where Jesus says the rich man died and went to hell, it was in torments there.

Plus scripture says that when Jesus died he descended into the lower parts of the earth and preach to spirits in prison there

And when he ascended he took those spirits in prison with him, which is why Scripture says many saints arose from the dead and went into the city after the resurrection of Jesus.

On top of that scripture says there are beings under the earth to speak.

Hell is not the grave. There are a lot of scriptures proving that the soul and the spirit leave the body at death, they do not sleep in the dirt.

Paul says in second Corinthians chapter 5 that our body is a house that we live in, that we leave at death.

I think if you're going to get an accurate picture of life vs death, you're going to have to at least accept some very basic scripture verses, like Genesis 3:19.

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return

You can't just ignore that verse and pretend it doesn't mean what it says. You have to accept it as truth, and then go from there.

 

[chad kincham]

Is this prison paradise?

When you say soul, or נפש , where do you purport is the dwelling place of the soul or נפש when his body is in the tomb?

(CLV) Gn 2:7
Yahweh Elohim formed the human out of soil from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the breath of life; and the human became a living soul (נפש).

First of all, our spirit is not a breath. Breath and wind are metaphors of the Holy Spirit - see Acts 2:2 where the Holy Spirit came upon them as a wind.

If our spirit was only breath, then God - who is a spirit - and angels, who are spirits, are only a breath.

Here’s the short version of evidence that soul sleep is error:

A synopsis of facts:


Our body is a HOME we leave at death, and go to be with Jesus. 2 Corinthians 5:1,6,8


The soul leaves the body at death, therefore doesn’t sleep with it. 1Kings 17:21-23; Genesis 35:18

When Rachel died her soul departed her body. Genesis 35:18-19


Damned humans are put in the same place of everlasting fire that spirits called fallen angels are - and angels have no bodies to bury or sleep in dirt - hence hell can’t be the grave. Matthew 25:41


John sees souls under the altar in heaven, who’ve been slain on the earth by the Antichrist, yet they are talking to God, and asking how long until those who killed them would be punished - they are conscious and awaiting bodily resurrection - not sleeping in the dirt. Revelation 6:9-11


When Jesus returns from heaven to resurrect the dead, He brings those souls John saw in heaven with Him to reunite with their risen and immortal bodies:


1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God BRING WITH HIM.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive andremain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


There are beings UNDER the earth who talk, thus are conscious - not buried in dirt while asleep in the grave. Revelation 5:13


Moses has died, but Moses’ soul isn’t taking a snooze in the dirt, because he visited Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. Mark 9:4

 

[chad kincham]

There are a few scriptures that hint at this concept but none in the old testament. In fact the old testament is clear that dust you are and to dust you shall return. King Solomon said that the dead know nothing and every single person who was described as dying in the old testament was said to "sleep with his fathers".

The body goes back to dust, the soul departs the body at death:

Ecc 12:7 then man's dust will go back to the earth, returning to what it was, and the spirit will return to the God who gave it.

The Old Testament actually backs up 2 Corinthians 5 which states our body is a house, a tent, that we depart from at death.

In 1 Kings, Elijah prayed three times for a dead boys SOUL to come back into his body. When his SOUL returned to his body again, the dead child was alive again. His soul wasn’t asleep with his dead body, it had LEFT and had to return.


1Ki 17:20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?


1Ki 17:21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's SOUL come INTO HIM AGAIN.


1Ki 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the SOUL of the child CAME INTO HIM AGAIN and he revived.


1Ki 17:23 And Elijah took the child, and brought him down out of the chamber into the house, and delivered him unto his mother: and Elijah said, See, thy son LIVETH.

Not to mention Moses died, but HE departed from his home, the body (2 Corinthians 5), and he appeared to Jesus on the mount of transfiguration.
Mark 9:4.


When Rachel was dying, her soul was departing.


Gen 35:18 And as HER SOUL WAS DEPARTING (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.


Gen 35:19 So Rachel died, and she was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem),


Where was her soul going when it departed from her body?


Back to God:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 then man's dust will go back to the earth, returning to what it was, and the spirit will return to the God who gave it.

 

[chad kincham]

I think if you're going to get an accurate picture of life vs death, you're going to have to at least accept some very basic scripture verses, like Genesis 3:19.

By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return

You can't just ignore that verse and pretend it doesn't mean what it says. You have to accept it as truth, and then go from there.

And you can’t ignore that it’s the body that goes back to dust.

The Old Testament is primarily about the physical, not about the spiritual, and contains lots of physical foreshadows of spiritual things not revealed until the New Testament was written - such as physical circumcision that was a shadow of spiritual circumcision of the heart as revealed by the NT.

The New Testament is the final authority on all doctrines, because it has revealed what the Old Testament concealed in types and shadows.

Scripture interprets scripture- you can’t just pick the ones you like, and use them as proof texts, and ignore the rest.

Even so, per another post to you, the Old Testament shows that the body sleeps and the soul departs it at death.

 

[Freedm]

The body goes back to dust, the soul departs the body at death:

Ecc 12:7 then man's dust will go back to the earth, returning to what it was, and the spirit will return to the God who gave it.

Yes, but what is "spirit"? The word used in this verse is the Hebrew word ruach which means breath, as in that which animates us. Aka, the breath of life. This is the same breath that God breathed into Adam when Adam became a living soul in Genesis 2:7.

then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

In 1 Kings, Elijah prayed three times for a dead boys SOUL to come back into his body. When his SOUL returned to his body again, the dead child was alive again. His soul wasn’t asleep with his dead body, it had LEFT and had to return.

In this example Elijah prayed for the boy's "life" to come back into his dead body. The Hebrew word here is nephesh which means life. The NIV even translates it as life saying "let the boy's life return to him!". No mention of soul.

You have to remember that the KJV is 400 years old and the English of that time was very different. At that time the word "soul" was equated with "life", but today the word "soul" is equated with "spirit", which causes much confusion. So when reading an old translation like the KJV you have to be mindful of how the English language has changed. Personally, this is why I prefer the NIV. The language used is much closer to my own, though even with the NIV we have to be careful but at least we don't fall into the trap of thinking that our modern English words have the same meanings or connotations as those words written 400 years ago.

Not to mention Moses died, but HE departed from his home, the body (2 Corinthians 5), and he appeared to Jesus on the mount of transfiguration.
Mark 9:4.

Look at verse 4 from your example of 1 Corinthians 5.

For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

Paul here is literally saying that until we are "swallowed up by life" we are still mortal. And that means we have no eternal spirit living inside of us, because if we did we would already be immortal. Paul is looking forward to the resurrection, which happens upon death.

He even says "as long as we're at home in the body we are away from the Lord" which proves that we don't have spirits right now, because if we did we could go into heaven where the Lord is. No, we have to wait until we are resurrected and receive our heavenly (spiritual) bodies. Only then can we enter into heaven and be with the Lord.

When Rachel was dying, her soul was departing.

Gen 35:18 And as HER SOUL WAS DEPARTING (for she was dying), she called his name Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin.

In this example as well, the word used is nephesh, which means life. The NIV even doesn't say that "her soul departed" but simply "she was dying". The KJV is a poor translation.

Where was her soul going when it departed from her body?

The only thing that departed from her was her life.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 then man's dust will go back to the earth, returning to what it was, and the spirit will return to the God who gave it.

Still talking about life, or more specifically the breath of life.

 

[Freedm]

And you can’t ignore that it’s the body that goes back to dust.

The Old Testament is primarily about the physical, not about the spiritual, and contains lots of physical foreshadows of spiritual things not revealed until the New Testament was written - such as physical circumcision that was a shadow of spiritual circumcision of the heart as revealed by the NT.

The New Testament is the final authority on all doctrines, because it has revealed what the Old Testament concealed in types and shadows.

Scripture interprets scripture- you can’t just pick the ones you like, and use them as proof texts, and ignore the rest.

Even so, per another post to you, the Old Testament shows that the body sleeps and the soul departs it at death.

The body does indeed return to dust, but that is all we are. We are physical bodies, nothing else. And God never said "Dust and spirit you are". No, he said "dust you are". He also never said "To dust your body will return but your spirit will return to heaven". No, he said "To dust you will return". In other words, you are dust. You are not spirit. You are dust.

Don't you think there would've been some mention of all the saints having gone to heaven if what you say is true? Instead all we get are references to the saints sleeping in the dust of the earth.

And let's not forget that even Jesus himself confirmed this for us, when he said "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-the Son of Man." John 3:13. So talk about "picking the ones you like".

 

[Randy777]

This question has been crossing my mind for weeks; and I just saw this same question asked in a Denominational Specific Forum. The answers that I saw there still left me with the same question.

Here are the verses that prompted the question:

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Now here is a rhetorical question: Is the heart of the earth paradise?

So what did Yahshua mean by these two statements, which on the surface, would seem to be conflicting?

First of all man can kill the body but not the soul. Jesus never dies. The only thing given about His comings and goings during those 3 days was from Peter. Alive in the Spirit Jesus went and preached to the spirits in prison.