Where was Yahshua for the Three Days Before He was Risen?

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This question has been crossing my mind for weeks; and I just saw this same question asked in a Denominational Specific Forum. The answers that I saw there still left me with the same question.

Here are the verses that prompted the question:

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Now here is a rhetorical question: Is the heart of the earth paradise?

So what did Yahshua mean by these two statements, which on the surface, would seem to be conflicting?
 

Maria Billingsley

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This question has been crossing my mind for weeks; and I just saw this same question asked in a Denominational Specific Forum. The answers that I saw there still left me with the same question.

Here are the verses that prompted the question:

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Now here is a rhetorical question: Is the heart of the earth paradise?

So what did Yahshua mean by these two statements, which on the surface, would seem to be conflicting?
Jesus Christ of Nazareth was first to die. He opened paradise for the world , The Kingdom of God. His promise to the thief was fulfilled. His flesh remained on earth for an additional three days then He rose again. The heart of the earth simply means He was buried. I know there are other interpretations but I always look at things as simple as possible.
Blessings.
 
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HARK!

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His promise to the thief was fulfilled.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

How do you suppose that it was fulfilled?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

How do you suppose that it was fulfilled?
He died that day.
 
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HTacianas

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This question has been crossing my mind for weeks; and I just saw this same question asked in a Denominational Specific Forum. The answers that I saw there still left me with the same question.

Here are the verses that prompted the question:

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Now here is a rhetorical question: Is the heart of the earth paradise?

So what did Yahshua mean by these two statements, which on the surface, would seem to be conflicting?

The "heart of the earth" is the tomb. His body remained in it. His spirit went into the dwelling place of souls:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
 
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HARK!

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He died that day.

So, where would the thief have gone, if he had still repented, and believed in Yah's salvation, as foretold in the TaNaK; if Yahshua had not yet come in the flesh?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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So, where would the thief have gone, if he had still repented, and believed in Yah's salvation, as foretold in the TaNaK; if Yahshua had not yet come in the flesh?
The theif went to Paradise like Jesus Christ of Nazareth said. We have to realize what happened immediately after He died. The veil of the temple was torn in two.
Matthew 27
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
 
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Mr. M

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So, where would the thief have gone, if he had still repented, and believed in Yah's salvation, as foretold in the TaNaK; if Yahshua had not yet come in the flesh?
"Abraham's bosom"-a place of comfort in the heart of the earth.
Luke 16:
22
So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom.
The rich man also died and was buried.

23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and
Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that
he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things,
and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who
want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.

.
It is not clear whom He is addressing, but there is nothing to suggest that this is a parable,
but is a divinely given midrashim. You have quoted from it yourself.

Luke 16:31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they
be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’


If the thief on the cross had not confessed his belief that Christ was who He said He was,
would he have not been with the rich ruler and not Lazarus?
 
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HARK!

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The "heart of the earth" is the tomb. His body remained in it. His spirit went into the dwelling place of souls:

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Is this prison paradise?

When you say soul, or נפש , where do you purport is the dwelling place of the soul or נפש when his body is in the tomb?

(CLV) Gn 2:7
Yahweh Elohim formed the human out of soil from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the breath of life; and the human became a living soul (נפש).
 
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HARK!

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The theif went to Paradise like Jesus Christ of Nazareth said. We have to realize what happened immediately after He died. The veil of the temple was torn in two.
Matthew 27
Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

This doesn't answer where he would have gone before Yahshua had come in the flesh.

How does the veil being rent affect YHWH's standard of where we go when we die? Certainly you aren't suggesting that YHWH has a double standard?
 
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Rachel20

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Paradise, also known as "Abraham's Bosom" from Luke 16, was in the heart of the earth, as was the place of torments where the rich man was. Jesus went there and preached to the spirits in prison. For even those with Abraham were in a place of captivity, though filled with comforts. Jesus let them out, and thus the saying "he led captivity captive". When Jesus was first resurrected, he could not be touched because he had not yet ascended to the Father, thus he tells Mary "do not cling to me". Later that day, he tells Thomas to touch his side. So sometime between these two events, he ascended to Heaven and was presented to the Father. I believe at that time, he escorted those from Abraham's Bosom to Heaven as well, and it can now be said Paradise is in Heaven.
 
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eleos1954

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This question has been crossing my mind for weeks; and I just saw this same question asked in a Denominational Specific Forum. The answers that I saw there still left me with the same question.

Here are the verses that prompted the question:

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Now here is a rhetorical question: Is the heart of the earth paradise?

So what did Yahshua mean by these two statements, which on the surface, would seem to be conflicting?

In Jonah 2:2, Jonah says that “out of the belly of hell cried I.” The word for “hell” there comes from the Hebrew sheol, which means “the grave” or the “underworld.” In Hebrew, it’s often synonymous with death. Jonah, in the belly of the fish, saw himself as “dead,” only to be resurrected; that is, saved from his fate, and only by the power of God.

What Jonah experienced is parallel/similar to that of which Jesus experienced.

Jesus was resurrected (from the grave/hell) on the third day, similarly Jonah while in the belly of the fish considered himself dead, yet after 3 days was released, in a sense Jonah was resurrected/released from certain death by the power of God.

Revelation 2

7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes, I will grant the right to eat from the tree of life in the Paradise of God.

so no ... the heart of the earth (hell/grave) is not paradise

Paradise is heaven.
 
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HARK!

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so no ... the heart of the earth (hell/grave) is not paradise

Paradise is heaven.

Hi Eleos,

I know that I've opened up a can of worms here; but now that enough have gathered for this family gathering; it might be time to open up the family sized can.

Perhaps this verse reconciles the two verses in the OP:

(CLV) Ec 12:7
And the soil returns onto the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it.

Maybe, maybe not; but even if it does; it presents more unanswered questions in my mind.

Shabbat shalom
 
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ViaCrucis

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This question has been crossing my mind for weeks; and I just saw this same question asked in a Denominational Specific Forum. The answers that I saw there still left me with the same question.

Here are the verses that prompted the question:

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Now here is a rhetorical question: Is the heart of the earth paradise?

So what did Yahshua mean by these two statements, which on the surface, would seem to be conflicting?

The Apostles' Creed confesses "He descended into the place of the dead". The Latin here is descendit ad inferos, often translated as "descended into hell", though the more literal meaning of inferos is "lower regions" or "netherworld", i.e. the place of the dead, equivalent to Greek Hades and Hebrew She'ol.

Jesus descent into "hell" is for the purpose of freeing captives and defeating the powers of sin, death, hell, and the devil. For we read in the Epistle to the Hebrews, "Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, He himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death He might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil," (Hebrews 2:14).

Paradise, or Gan-Eden was the part of She'ol where the righteous dead were waiting, this is "Abraham's Bosom" in Jesus' parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. Second Temple period literature also "locates" Paradise in the so-called "third heaven", in the ancient Jewish concept of the seven heavens. St. Paul references this Second Temple idea when he speaks of a man he knew who experienced a vision or an experience of the third heaven seeing Paradise etc.

So yes, when Jesus says, "Today you will be with Me in Paradise" Jesus is telling the thief that he will be counted among the righteous; not that the thief will "go to heaven" since Paradise here isn't "heaven", but the place of the righteous dead, Gan-Eden, the righteous dead in She'ol.

All of this should sufficiently tell us that this isn't talking about some literal physical place either underground or somewhere in outer space. We aren't talking about "location" in the most literal way here.

Christ's descent into Hades is the doom of Hades, it is the defeat and victory over and against it. The Church calls this the Harrowing of Hell, and the Church has sung hymns and preached many sermons about it to remind us of Christ's glorious victory by His resurrection.

"Christ is risen from the dead,
Trampling down Death by death,
And to those in the tombs,
Bestowing life.
" - The Paschal Troparion

"Let no one grieve at his poverty,
for the universal kingdom has been revealed.
Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again;
for forgiveness has risen from the grave.
Let no one fear death, for the death of our Savior has set us free.
He has destroyed it by enduring it.

He destroyed Hades when he descended into it.
He put it into an uproar even as it tasted of His flesh.
Isaiah foretold this when he said,
You, O Hell, have been troubled by encountering Him below.

Hell was in an uproar because it was done away with.
It was in an uproar, because it was mocked.
It was in an uproar, for it was destroyed.
It is in an uproar, for it is annihilated.

It is in an uproar because it is now made captive.
Hell took a body, and it discovered God.
It took earth, and encountered Heaven.
It took what it saw, and was overcome by what it did not see.

O death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?

Christ is risen, and you, O death, are annihilated!
Christ is risen, and the evil ones are cast down!
Christ is risen, and the angels rejoice!
Christ is risen, and life is liberated!
Christ is risen, and the tomb is emptied of its dead;
for Christ, having risen from the dead,
is become the first-fruits of those who have fallen asleep.

To Him be glory and power forever and ever. Amen!
"
- Paschal Homily of St. John Chrysostom

Amen, Christ is risen: Death is trampled down by death, Hell has been ransacked and the prison doors swung open. Christ the Lord has conquered, and by His conquering has set all creation free. Preach the Good News to every living creature: God has won, and the devil has lost. Whomever the Son sets free is free indeed.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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eleos1954

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Hi Eleos,

I know that I've opened up a can of worms here; but now that enough have gathered for this family gathering; it might be time to open up the family sized can.

Perhaps this verse reconciles the two verses in the OP:

(CLV) Ec 12:7
And the soil returns onto the earth just as it was, And the spirit, it returns to the One, Elohim, Who gave it.

Maybe, maybe not; but even if it does; it presents more unanswered questions in my mind.

Shabbat shalom

I would agree .... there are many many many verses that talks about at death we go to the grave ... and the breath of life returns to God.

Certainly the state of the dead is very controversial .... I think really one needs to study out and decide from scripture overall .... and answer the question ... are we in any way immortal? I do not find it to be so when taking in account the whole of scripture.

It is those who believe in an immortal "soul" that drives differing interpretations of certain scriptures.

A soul is a living being (a person) ... a soul is not something immortal we possess .. it is what we are ... a living being .... just as Genesis says ...

Genesis 2
7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being (soul).

Have a blessed Sabbath.
 
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HARK!

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"Abraham's bosom"-a place of comfort in the heart of the earth.
Luke 16:
22
So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom.
The rich man also died and was buried.

23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and
Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that
he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things,
and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who
want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.

Where in any of this does it say that Abraham's Bosom, is in the heart of the earth?

It is not clear whom He is addressing, but there is nothing to suggest that this is a parable,
but is a divinely given midrashim. You have quoted from it yourself.

What did I quote, and where?
 
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Mr. M

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What did I quote, and where?
You have quoted from it yourself.
Luke 16:31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they
be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’
In one of your threads, you quoted Luke 16:31 to suggest that hearing the Torah was
necessary to receive the Gospel. If you don't remember, that's fine. You have originated
as many if not more threads than I have over the past two years, I am not going to try to find
it to jog your memory. I have complete confidence in mine.
Where in any of this does it say that Abraham's Bosom, is in the heart of the earth?
"Abraham's bosom"-a place of comfort in the heart of the earth.
Luke 16:
22
So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom.
The rich man also died and was buried.

23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and
Lazarus in his bosom.
Where is Hades? Arizona?
 
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HARK!

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Where is Hades? Arizona?

Hades
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hades (/ˈheɪdiːz/; Greek: ᾍδης, translit. Háidēs; Ἅιδης, Háidēs), in the ancient Greek religion and myth, is the god of the dead and the king of the underworld, with which his name became synonymous.[1] Hades was the eldest son of Cronus and Rhea, although this also made him the last son to be regurgitated by his father.[2] He and his brothers, Zeus and Poseidon, defeated their father's generation of gods, the Titans, and claimed rulership over the cosmos. Hades received the underworld, Zeus the sky, and Poseidon the sea, with the solid earth, long the province of Gaia, available to all three concurrently. In artistic depictions, Hades is typically portrayed holding a bident and wearing his helm with Cerberus, the three-headed guard dog of the underworld, standing to his side.

The Etruscan god Aita and the Roman gods Dis Pater and Orcus were eventually taken as equivalent to Hades and merged into Pluto, a Latinization of Plouton (Greek: Πλούτων, translit. Ploútōn),[3] itself a euphemistic title often given to Hades.

Hades - Wikipedia

Why would you assume that the angels carried Lazarus "far off" to Hades?

Where is Hades in relationship to sheol?
 
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HARK!

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Amen, Christ is risen: Death is trampled down by death, Hell has been ransacked and the prison doors swung open.

Will not all face final judgement? Were the doors swung open before that day; or has that day already come and gone? Where does the second death fit in?
 
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This question has been crossing my mind for weeks; and I just saw this same question asked in a Denominational Specific Forum. The answers that I saw there still left me with the same question.

Here are the verses that prompted the question:

(CLV) Mt 12:40
For even as Jonah was in the bowel of the sea monster three days and three nights, thus will the Son of Mankind be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

(CLV) Lk 23:43
And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Now here is a rhetorical question: Is the heart of the earth paradise?

So what did Yahshua mean by these two statements, which on the surface, would seem to be conflicting?
The fascinating and ignored doctrine in Christology. His spirit's descent to the Underworld/Sheol/Hades; Gehenna; Paradise; Tartarus; Abyss, while his body was in the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea.

Not conflicting as his spirit left his body. The heart of the earth is not paradise.
 
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