Where Mary's seemingly deistic identity stems from...

[Amylisa]

I Others would preach about the infinite nature of God but would still base their interpretations on linear principles. If we understand that God is not bound by linear time we then begin to understand the basis of much of Catholic teaching regarding prayer.

When we are saved, God creates a new spirit within us. We are not bound by death but our spirits live forever. The deceased are no longer bound by linear time. In Jeremiah the Lord said "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee." In Revelation the prayers of the saints are offered up. Saints exist both on earth and in Heaven. The spiritual is not bound by physical laws.
.

Excellent points, and a thought provoking post!

 

[lionroar0]

Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.

And in red is the part that is us asking her to pray for us and through her prayers obtain for us that.

Peace

 

[lionroar0]

Mary could not be the mother of God. For God has no mother. Jesus became flesh. So in order to become flesh He had to have a human mother. He was already the second in the Godhead. He became flesh therefore Mary was His earthly mother alone.

It seems that there is still confusion about what mothers do.

Mother do not create their children. Did your mother create you? Did you create your own children?

No rather a mother gives part of herself and the father gives part of himself for a person to be born through a mother.

God gave of Himself and Mary gave of herself for the person of Jesus who is God and human to be born through Mary. This is what a mother does.

Mary is the Mother of God. Anything else is to reignite old heresies.


Peace

 

[MamaZ]

Mother do not create their children.

Yes they do.. It is called procreation.. God knits us together but it takes both the mother and the father to procreate in order for a child to be born.. In the case of Mary it was not by procreation that Jesus became flesh. For He was the word before He became flesh therefore having already been established in the trinity. He became flesh. He was born of a Virgin..

 

[Amylisa]

Well then if you take that point of view, that would make Mary the Mother of God, even more so! I don't really get your argument.

 

[MamaZ]

Well then if you take that point of view, that would make Mary the Mother of God, even more so! I don't really get your argument.

Mary did not create Jesus.. LOL.. For He was before He became flesh. There is a difference between procreation and Christ birth born of a virgin.. We as people never were before we became flesh. Jesus was. For with mankind the flesh is before the Spiritual.. With Christ it is just the opposite.

 

[JoabAnias]

That really is the mystery of life it has pleased the God not to reveal to us.

What He has chosen to reveal to us is that there was a virgin birth as a result of the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit making a woman the human mother of the incarnate God which for all time she will be called blessed and be the greatest enemy of perdition being clothed with the son. Imagine that.

 

[Amylisa]

I have read (when I was pregnant myself) that at certain point in pregnancy, the mother's and the baby's blood intermix. It occured to me one day, that Mary had the blood of Jesus flowing through her own body! Is that incredible or what!

 

[Thekla]

I have read (when I was pregnant myself) that at certain point in pregnancy, the mother's and the baby's blood intermix. It occured to me one day, that Mary had the blood of Jesus flowing through her own body! Is that incredible or what!

yes, this is what I have read, too

 

[sunlover1]

Not that it's pertinent, just sharing facts.
Either way, it's awesome for mary that
she was chosen to carry the baby Jesus.

Around day 21, the embryo's bloodstream and the mother's bloodstream are in such close contact that nutrients and oxygen can cross from mother to embryo. The two bloodstreams are separated by a thin collection of tissues in the placenta called the blood barrier. This barrier permits small particles like nutrients and oxygen to pass from the mother to the embryo and allows waste products to pass from the embryo back to the mother.
The blood barrier also prevents many large or potentially harmful particles from entering the embryo's bloodstream. The red blood cells do not cross from the mother's bloodstream to the embryo's bloodstream.
It's important to keep the two bloodstreams separate since the blood type of the mother and embryo could be different. If the mother's blood type is positive, and her embryo's blood type is negative, then the mother's blood cells would treat the embryo as an invading foreign organism, and try to destroy it.
The placenta and its blood barrier are important for supplying the growing embryo with nutrition and oxygen, removing its waste products, and preventing harmful substances from getting into the embryo's bloodstream.

 

[lionroar0]

Yes they do.. It is called procreation.. God knits us together but it takes both the mother and the father to procreate in order for a child to be born.. In the case of Mary it was not by procreation that Jesus became flesh. For He was the word before He became flesh therefore having already been established in the trinity. He became flesh. He was born of a Virgin..

And yet we would know nothing of the Trinity if Jesus had not been born of Mary. The Trinity was revealed throug Jesus who is the second person of the Trinity who is God.

God became flesh and was born through Mary. Marybeing the Mother of God also answers the question who is Jesus? When did Jesus become God?

Calling Mary the Mother of God takes care of these things which had being in question earlier in history.

Procreation does not equal creation.

People procreate. They are creating something from something. Also notice it's they, not he, or she. Not one with out the other. Only God can create from nothing.

Peace

 

[GBTWC]

And yet we would know nothing of the Trinity if Jesus had not been born of Mary. The Trinity was revealed throug Jesus who is the second person of the Trinity who is God.

Chist was revealed throughout the entire O.T. as he told His disciples it was writen about Him

God became flesh and was born through Mary.

God is the uncreated Light from everlasting to everlasting

Marybeing the Mother of God also answers the question who is Jesus?

Mary being the mother of God is a poor term the bible says He came in the likness of human Flesh again mary was only a vessel used by God that is why she is blessed among women

When did Jesus become God?

He didnt become God He is the Iam He was and is and is to come

Calling Mary the Mother of God takes care of these things which had being in question earlier in history.

God is uncreated adding a term that that comes dangerously close to causing people to give Glory to the creation rather than the creator is a risk I will not take in order to defend one doctrine this has created another false doctrine.

Procreation does not equal creation.

People procreate. They are creating something from something. Also notice it's they, not he, or she. Not one with out the other. Only God can create from nothing.

yep

Peace

thanks

mary was simply a vessel that God used to become flesh. When God uses us or any of His creation including mary all glory goes to God anything else is satanic.
Please understand I dont want to come across as a mary basher I believe She was an awsome example if not the best example short of Christ BUT she is around the throne of God enthrawled with the Glory of our Creator and not some kinda operator intercepting our prayers and forewarding them to God.


with Love in Christ

 

[Amylisa]

Hey GBTWC (cool name by the way),
is the photo of the hand there...is that from the show LOST?

Just wondering.

 

[simonthezealot]

I have read (when I was pregnant myself) that at certain point in pregnancy, the mother's and the baby's blood intermix. It occured to me one day, that Mary had the blood of Jesus flowing through her own body! Is that incredible or what!

This is absolutely NOT true. Amniotic fluid is not blood and at NO point do the bloods mix.

 

[Amylisa]

Here's some things Martin Luther had to say regarding Mary~

It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).
She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).


Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of "Spiritual Mother" for Christians:

It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .. (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)
Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).
​

 

[Amylisa]

This is absolutely NOT true. Amniotic fluid is not blood and at NO point do the bloods mix.

Of course amniotic fluid is not blood.

And for further info, see post by Sun Lover! She cleared this up for me.

 

[simonthezealot]

Not that it's pertinent, just sharing facts.
Either way, it's awesome for mary that
she was chosen to carry the baby Jesus.

Around day 21, the embryo's bloodstream and the mother's bloodstream are in such close contact that nutrients and oxygen can cross from mother to embryo. The two bloodstreams are separated by a thin collection of tissues in the placenta called the blood barrier. This barrier permits small particles like nutrients and oxygen to pass from the mother to the embryo and allows waste products to pass from the embryo back to the mother.
The blood barrier also prevents many large or potentially harmful particles from entering the embryo's bloodstream. The red blood cells do not cross from the mother's bloodstream to the embryo's bloodstream.
It's important to keep the two bloodstreams separate since the blood type of the mother and embryo could be different. If the mother's blood type is positive, and her embryo's blood type is negative, then the mother's blood cells would treat the embryo as an invading foreign organism, and try to destroy it.
The placenta and its blood barrier are important for supplying the growing embryo with nutrition and oxygen, removing its waste products, and preventing harmful substances from getting into the embryo's bloodstream.

Wish I would have read this b4 my uniformative post above was made...Thanks sister sunlover...

 

[simonthezealot]

Here's some things Martin Luther had to say regarding Mary~

​

​

Here is more Luther mocks those who would call upon Mary or venerate her. Luther insists that those who seek Christ through Mary do so by the use of “reason,” and “reason is by nature a harmful harlot.”

Here is the context from LW 51:375-376:

“Therefore, when we preach faith, that we should worship nothing but God alone, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, as we say in the Creed: “I believe in God the Father almighty and in Jesus Christ,” then we are remaining in the temple at Jerusalem. Again, “This is my beloved Son; listen to him” “You will find him in a manger”. He alone does it. But reason says the opposite: What, us? Are we to worship only Christ? Indeed, shouldn’t we also honor the holy mother of Christ? She is the woman who bruised the head of the serpent.  Hear us, Mary, for thy Son so honors thee that he can refuse thee nothing. Here Bernard went too far in his “Homilies on the Gospel ‘ Missus est Angelus .’ ”  God has commanded that we should honor the parents; therefore I will call upon Mary. She will intercede for me with the Son, and the Son with the Father, who will listen to the Son. So you have the picture of God as angry and Christ as judge; Mary shows to Christ her breast and Christ shows his wounds to the wrathful Father. That’s the kind of thing this comely bride, the wisdom of reason cooks up: Mary is the mother of Christ, surely Christ will listen to her; Christ is a stern judge, therefore I will call upon St. George and St. Christopher. No, we have been by God’s command baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, just as the Jews were circumcised. Therefore, just as the Jews set up all over the land their own self-chosen shrines, as if Jerusalem were too narrow, so we also have done. As a young man must resist lust and an old man avarice, so reason is by nature a harmful harlot. But she shall not harm me, if only I resist her. Ah, but she is so comely and glittering. That’s why there must be preachers who will point people to the catechism: I believe in Jesus Christ, not in St. George or St. Christopher, for only of Christ is it said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”; not of Mary or the angels. The Father did not speak of Gabriel or any others when he cried from heaven, “Listen to him.”

 

[GBTWC]

That really is the mystery of life it has pleased the God not to reveal to us.

What He has chosen to reveal to us is that there was a virgin birth as a result of the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit making a woman the human mother of the incarnate God which for all time she will be called blessed and be the greatest enemy of perdition being clothed with the son. Imagine that.

it is a mystery but when something is mysterious we should error on the side of caution and be very careful we are not Giving glory or worship anywhere but to our Lord. for example if we can pray directly to God Why would I pray to Mary ?

think about it how annoyed would my wife be if whenever I was sitting right next to her I decided to call Her to say hi love you instead of just turning and talking to her

or how would it grieve an earthly father if his child didn't think him gracious enough to talk with directly and he had to get someone to do it for him.

and b-4 someone asks why we have people pray for us here, the answer is becouse God has Given us gifts to use like exhortation, prophecy, even tongues, prayer with an earthly brother or sister is homeopathic. prayer doesnt change God as much as it aligns us with His will

with love in Christ

 

[GBTWC]

Hey GBTWC (cool name by the way),
is the photo of the hand there...is that from the show LOST?

Just wondering.

ya I love that show