Where Mary's seemingly deistic identity stems from...

[simonthezealot]

That sounds Pagan. Mother earth I mean. I have never heard of this. You do realize thats not the teaching of the Church though right and such a belief would never have been taught by the Church? If it developed somehow its not the Church deifing Mary but misguided individuals I would say.

Are you aware of Incan beliefs? They were even worse weren't they? They aren't sacrificing each other to Mother Earth are they?

Well they likely are not sacrificing but I can tell you its just another case of usurping God's glory, worshipping a demon portrayed as a goddess. It's why I've long struggled with the to Jesus through Mary approach forwarded by many of your brothers and sisters in the faith is that the dwellers of these ancient places see the attachment of importance without understanding Romes teaching regarding it. Heck many americans as well are guilty of this.

 

[lionroar0]

In Lima, Peru like many SA countries the Incas had Roman catholicism essentially forced on them creating a blend of religions therefore they began to worship Mary as the "mother earth".

I'm from Lima Peru and part Inca. I don't worship mother earth.

Then they are worshipping mother earth and not Mary.

Peace

 

[JoabAnias]

Well they likely are not sacrificing but I can tell you its just another case of usurping God's glory, worshipping a demon portrayed as a goddess. It's why I've long struggled with the to Jesus through Mary approach forwarded by many of your brothers and sisters in the faith is that the dwellers of these ancient places see the attachment of importance without understanding Romes teaching regarding it. Heck many americans as well are guilty of this.

It does take a clear understanding of the ancient and orthodox definitions of what prayer and worship are as well as a clear understanding of the intercession and familial bond of Saints in union with Christs body. I will grant you that much and can see how simple folks can become misguided.

In my personal experiences of having a strong devotion to our blessed mother through the way of St. Louis De Montfort I can totally relate. There were times I didn't understand it so would put it down for a bit and then take it up again.

A curious thing began to happen though. Through my devotion to Christ's mother my love for Jesus increased as well as a general gratitude to God in all His glory which enables me to submit to His will more readily in whatever may come (including suffering and service) than ever before. Go figure.

 

[simonthezealot]

I'm from Lima Peru and part Inca. I don't worship mother earth.

Then they are worshipping mother earth and not Mary.

Peace

Hey bro/ ola' Wayqe,
I am glad to hear you don't worship mother earth. You can't deny many of your fellow incans maintain this view of Mary as mother earth though.

 

[lionroar0]

Hey bro/ ola' Wayqe,
I am glad to hear you don't worship mother earth. You can't deny many of your fellow incans maintain this view of Mary as mother earth though.

I can't either deny nor confirm it. As I was nine years old when I left Peru for the USA.

If they are worshiping Mary as mother earth then they are worshiping mother earth.

Mary's identity does not change, because of religious syncretism.(sp?)

She is the Mother of God and Ever-Virgin. Not mother earth.

Peace

 

[bbbbbbb]

Mary's identity does not change, because of religious syncretism.(sp?)

She is the Mother of God and Ever-Virgin. Not mother earth.

Peace

I never knew that God had a mother. I was always told that He is eternal and immutable. Also, I think the brothers and sisters of Jesus (Matthew 13:55.56) would have been quite surprised to find out that Joseph had been cheating on Mary when they were conceived.

 

[Amylisa]

In my personal experiences of having a strong devotion to our blessed mother through the way of St. Louis De Montfort I can totally relate. There were times I didn't understand it so would put it down for a bit and then take it up again.

A curious thing began to happen though. Through my devotion to Christ's mother my love for Jesus increased as well as a general gratitude to God in all His glory which enables me to submit to His will more readily in whatever may come (including suffering and service) than ever before. Go figure.

That's been my experience also!
When I pray the Rosaary, such love is stirred in my heart for Christ.

 

[Amylisa]

I never knew that God had a mother. I was always told that He is eternal and immutable. Also, I think the brothers and sisters of Jesus (Matthew 13:55.56) would have been quite surprised to find out that Joseph had been cheating on Mary when they were conceived.

Well Jesus is God, yes? And Mary is His mother. So that is why we call her the Mother of God, because she is the mother of God the Son. He is just as much God as the Father is.

You need to study the original texts regarding brothers, sisters, and the terminology of the time. Jews often referred to other relatives as brothers and sisters.
I don't know what you mean about Joseph cheating on Mary. I think we should be careful of how we speak about them, as God knows our every word and thought!

 

[JoabAnias]

Well Jesus is God, yes? And Mary is His mother. So that is why we call her the Mother of God, because she is the mother of God the Son. He is just as much God as the Father is.

You need to study the original texts regarding brothers, sisters, and the terminology of the time. Jews often referred to other relatives as brothers and sisters.
I don't know what you mean about Joseph cheating on Mary. I think we should be careful of how we speak about them, as God knows our every word and thought!

Don't forget that Joseph was an elderly widower with kids of his own when he was betrothed to Mary. This is why Joseph who scripture tells us was a Godly man was no longer seen after the finding in the temple or he would naturally have been by her side and a defender of Jesus. They were arranged marriages back then and Joseph was already passed on by the time of our Lords ministry.

 

[MamaZ]

Well if Mary was indeed the mother of God then she would have to be mother of the full Godhead for They are one.. That is why Mary is the earthly mother of Jesus.

 

[JoabAnias]

Well if Mary was indeed the mother of God then she would have to be mother of the full Godhead for They are one.. That is why Mary is the earthly mother of Jesus.

She is mother of our incarnate Lord of course. Never the less blessed among all women through Gods glory yet always human and subservient to Him. Just imagine your son being your Lord. I don't think my own Earthly mom would go for that. Of course I am far from a diety.

 

[narnia59]

Well if Mary was indeed the mother of God then she would have to be mother of the full Godhead for They are one.. That is why Mary is the earthly mother of Jesus.

They are indeed one God, but they are also three distinct persons, and therefore Mary can indeed be the mother of the full person of Jesus without being mother of the Father and the Holy Spirit. But she cannot be the mother of just his humanity, for his human and divine nature cannot be divided. They are not 'two' persons.

And I again fail to see anything that would make her just his "earthly" mother? He is forever both man and God, correct?

 

[MamaZ]

Mary was not the mother of the divinity of Christ. For He was divine before He became Flesh. So therefore she was the mother Of Jesus.. Not God. You cannot seperate the God head and still have God.

 

[narnia59]

Mary was not the mother of the divinity of Christ. For He was divine before He became Flesh. So therefore she was the mother Of Jesus.. Not God. You cannot seperate the God head and still have God.

With the red you just pulled Jesus right out of the Trinity, and by your own words, you cannot separate the Trinity and still have God.

 

[MamaZ]

Nope because when Jesus became flesh all flesh has to have a mother. Spirit does not. So when the word became flesh He would need a fleshly mother. He is indeed God but to say that Mary is the mother of God would mean that Mary was right up there with them before the Word became flesh. Mary was the mother of Jesus in His flesh.. But she was not His mother before or after. For Mary is not my mother or the mother of the Church for Mary was flesh. One does not enter in to the kingdom of God through natural birth but by Spiritual birth. This is why it is written that one must be born again. Mary is my sister in the Lord for she too had to be born again. Not of the will of man but of the spirit of God. We are all born into the Kingdom of God the same way. Through the Spirit and not the flesh.

 

[lionroar0]

Nope because when Jesus became flesh all flesh has to have a mother. Spirit does not. So when the word became flesh He would need a fleshly mother. He is indeed God but to say that Mary is the mother of God would mean that Mary was right up there with them before the Word became flesh. Mary was the mother of Jesus in His flesh.. But she was not His mother before or after. For Mary is not my mother or the mother of the Church for Mary was flesh. One does not enter in to the kingdom of God through natural birth but by Spiritual birth. This is why it is written that one must be born again. Mary is my sister in the Lord for she too had to be born again. Not of the will of man but of the spirit of God. We are all born into the Kingdom of God the same way. Through the Spirit and not the flesh.

Nope because when Jesus became flesh all flesh has to have a mother. Spirit does not. So when the word became flesh He would need a fleshly mother. He is indeed God but to say that Mary is the mother of God would mean that Mary was right up there with them before the Word became flesh. Mary was the mother of Jesus in His flesh.. But she was not His mother before or after.

Being the Mother of God does not mean that His divinity originated from her. That's just silly and a departure from orthodox christianity. It also does not mean that she was right up there with Them.

Mary is the Mother of God, because she gave birth to Jesus who is God.

It's really that simple.

Peace

 

[MamaZ]

Being the Mother of God does not mean that His divinity originated from her. That's just silly and a departure from orthodox christianity. It also does not mean that she was right up there with Them.

Mary is the Mother of God, because she gave birth to Jesus who is God.

It's really that simple.

Peace

Mary could not be the mother of God. For God has no mother. Jesus became flesh. So in order to become flesh He had to have a human mother. He was already the second in the Godhead. He became flesh therefore Mary was His earthly mother alone.

 

[simonthezealot]

Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, 0 Immacuate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.
Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.
O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! 0 Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!
O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.
Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.

I just realised that catholics always say their prayers are THROUGH the saints and directed to Jesus, I don't see that in this.

 

[MamaZ]

Me either.

 

[UncleDave]

I may be risking excommunication here, but as a Catholic, language such as this really bothers me. It does read like a prayer of worship to Mary, whether or not it was intended that way. I've always understood exactly as our zealous friend Simon says: "...catholics always say their prayers are THROUGH the saints and directed to Jesus..." That's how I was taught. I see the above as veering dangerously close to the edge of no longer being just honor and veneration, but worship, because the praise and glory within are directed to Mary herself, not the one who made her, and not to Jesus through her. No wonder there are so many Catholics who do not understand their faith. I also see a danger with Catholics who do not understand Mary's true place in that they could be led into heresy by praying to Mary as if she was God.

I was born into a Lutheran family and became Catholic later in life. As a Lutheran, we did not ask Saints to pray for us, but the ideas of communion of saints, praying for the souls of the departed, etc., always made sense to me, for the following reason: I always understood that God exists in all time. He exists now, he exists in the past (not existed, as that would suggest he no longer does), and he exists in the future, from everlasting to everlasting. He has the ability to answer prayers now that will be prayed in the future. Hence the belief that when we pray for deceased loved ones, He will hear our prayer and is able to act in the past. It also supports real presence in the Eucharist. It also explains prophecies that become fulfilled. Since God is timeless, He exists in all time, and is not constrained by time. As finite humans we are bound to linear thinking. I knew this before I became Catholic, and the Catholic Church was the first place that I found this teaching. Others would preach about the infinite nature of God but would still base their interpretations on linear principles. If we understand that God is not bound by linear time we then begin to understand the basis of much of Catholic teaching regarding prayer.

When we are saved, God creates a new spirit within us. We are not bound by death but our spirits live forever. The deceased are no longer bound by linear time. In Jeremiah the Lord said "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee." In Revelation the prayers of the saints are offered up. Saints exist both on earth and in Heaven. The spiritual is not bound by physical laws.

Prayer is powerful, and who wouldn't want as many faithful to pray for them as possible? For the record, I do not pray to Mary or the Saints. I recognize that the dead in Christ are with Him in Heaven, and their prayers are offered up to Him. So I may petition them to offer prayers on my behalf.