Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

[Angel4Truth]

Was it logically possible for God to create Liberace and his musical genius, if you like that genre, as a heterosexual?

Yes - unless your asserting that to be musical genious its a given to be gay? I think motzart and beethoven were more genious and they werent gay. Not sure though what thats got to do with the price of rice in china though. Maybe i should post the bunny with the pancake on his head about now or start kicking dill pickles to see how many seeds come out?

 

[Crazy Liz]

Im really sorry to see this stated and wonder if you had a straight face as you typed it.

I find it easier to imagine a sad face than a straight face.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I find it easier to imagine a sad face than a straight face.

Liz does that mean in reading this you cannot see one instance of the op being bashed personally instead of someon answering the post? Yes or no?

 

[stumpjumper]

Thats false - back up about 3 posts before you blasted her (and later editted)People become homosexual and if you dont beleive that show me a homosexual infant. If you cannot then God didnt create a homosexual - the infant later became one themselves.

This is ridiculous.

People do not "create themselves".

If you want to see a homosexual infant, get a time machine and visit Elton John at age 3 months.

Again, I would simply point you towards the Nicene Creed and Colossians that explicitly state that God is the creator of all things visible and invisible.

Yes you did and later editted like you said yourself. Please at least own what you did.

I've already stated what I wrote and I stand by the point though I reworded it slightly within a minute or so.

Your accusations are no better..

Accusing someone of being unchristian and dehumanizing others when they did no such thing (just because you said they did doesnt mean they did) is a flame if you ask me and most people on this forum would agree and many people have been warned for calling others unchristian against the forum guidelines. I would know since i served on staff myself for over a year.

And, again, I never called anyone unChristian. Your attempt to put words in other people's mouths is humorous but completely beside the point and a derail at best.

I did state that I find the actions unChristian and, indeed, I do but I do think that saying they go against the Gospel of our Lord is a better phrasing because it leaves out what you are ranting about.

You being staff would also know that if those things actually were happening in the op that you accused her of - then the thread should have been closed long before now not to mention all the flaming to the op happening even on page 1 of the thread that anyone with a mind can see.

You want to talk about being pc and calling things like they are but blast the OP person for doing it as they see it?

Like i said before the hypocrisy in this thread is staggering.

The hypocrisy in this forum is staggering.

 

[Crazy Liz]

Thats false - back up about 3 posts before you blasted her (and later editted) People become homosexual and if you dont beleive that show me a homosexual infant. [/U]

Show us a heterosexual infant.

 

[Iefan]

Thats false - back up about 3 posts before you blasted her (and later editted) People become homosexual and if you dont beleive that show me a homosexual infant. If you cannot then God didnt create a homosexual - the infant later became one themselves.

Show me a heterosexual infant.

EDIT: DAMMIT LIZ!

 

[stumpjumper]

Yes - unless your asserting that to be musical genious its a given to be gay?

I'm not talking about someone with musical genius but Liberace specifically.

Do you really want to argue that it is logically possible for God to have created Liberace as a heterosexual rather than a homosexual?

 

[Crazy Liz]

Liz does that mean in reading this you cannot see one instance of the op being bashed personally instead of someon answering the post? Yes or no?

Do you really want to count instances?

 

[Angel4Truth]

This is ridiculous.

People do not "create themselves".

If you want to see a homosexual infant, get a time machine and visit Elton John at age 3 months.

Elton John was actually straight till later in life.

Again, I would simply point you towards the Nicene Creed and Colossians that explicitly state that God is the creator of all things visible and invisible.

I would ask you to point me to where i or IAR said otherwise.

I've already stated what I wrote and I stand by the point though I reworded it slightly within a minute or so.

slightly? hmm

Your accusations are no better..

Hey you can say you did whatever you want - many saw what you said before you changed it - bottom line is that God knows what you said and what your intent was and thats all that matters.

And, again, I never called anyone unChristian. Your attempt to put words in other people's mouths is humorous but completely beside the point and a derail at best.

Accuse me falsley all you want - I and others saw what you said before you changed it. God saw it too and you wont be changing his mind about what happened.

I did state that I find the actions unChristian and, indeed, I do but I do think that saying they go against the Gospel of our Lord is a better phrasing because it leaves out what you are ranting about.

what you changed it to yes.

The hypocrisy in this forum is staggering.

indeed - again if she did in the op what you originally claimed why is this thread open?

 

[KCKID]

1.) God still created homosexuals.

2.) I'm not desperately trying to accuse you of anything. The best I can see is an underhanded attempt by yourself to dehumanize a whole group of God's fellow creatures, many of whom are Christian, and, quite frankly, I find that a sickening act that completely goes against the Gospel of our Lord.

3.) Creation was and is not a one-time event so whether or not homosexuals are explicitly mentioned in the Genesis creation parables is inconsequential.

4.) God is the Creator of all things visible and invisible.

5.) It is quite clear that God did, indeed, create homosexuals, heterosexuals, and John Lennon. Glory be to God.

6.) The Genesis accounts are not exhaustive even if you read them as literal history (which a great many Christians do not) and, therefore, you will not find an exhaustive listing of all that God intends or visions for each of us within.

Yes, the narrative includes a bond between male and female wherein we leave our parents and cleave to each other in one flesh as Jesus interpreted. However, even that is a parable of a parable as within the narrative neither Adam or Eve had biological parents to leave. You can not look back at Genesis and find everything that God intends for your life or any one else's life for that matter.

We all have different paths and all add to God's plan in different ways and that is the glory of following in and believing in a living God. We have a God who is active and creative today in each and all of our lives and that is what we should attest to as Christians.

We should not dehumanize groups of people and remove God from their lives nor can we do the latter no matter how hard some may try...

I wholeheartedly agree with the above ...not sure about the John Lennon part though.

Until about 18 months ago I would have defended Creation and several - if not all - of the books of Genesis as a (sort of) literal account. But, not so these days. Nowadays, I tend to agree with your 'parable' definition. In my mind I guess I've always REALLY known this. God basically tells the ancients as much as they need to know or as much as they can grasp in 'story' form. Today we are far more enlightened than the audience Genesis was aimed at. And, REALLY, this should stand to reason. One need not be Einstein to figure this out. Talking snakes and apples indeed!

It's rather amazing to me, however, that so many within Christianity still take the Creation story as being absolutely literal. And, because they do, I believe this has led to their error/s in reasoning ...especially in areas of genetics and their irritatingly preferred ignorance toward the myriads of biological components of which a human being consists.

The MOST confounding thing is that many of the literalists are also intelligent people. That is ...until it comes down to their shaking traditional ideas after a life time of being taught and subjected to those traditional ideas. Many are reluctant to do so (they might offend God) while others absolutely dig in their heels and refuse to budge. God REALLY might take them to task if they exercise reason to the equasion!

So, my view on this thread topic is ...I don't take the Genesis account as anything other than a fable or a parable or a metaphorical illustration. To me, this therefore renders the OP question a moot one. I'm sure the ACTUAL Creation event would have been rather mind-blowing but far more complex than our finite minds could handle! Just think of forever (life without end) or no beginning (always has been). BOTH are impossible for us to grasp. Don't let us argue homosexuality in light of our complete lack of understanding in SO MANY other areas. SURELY, this is foolhardy ...?

 

[Angel4Truth]

I'm not talking about someone with musical genius but Liberace specifically.

Do you really want to argue that it is logically possible for God to have created Liberace as a heterosexual rather than a homosexual?

No , it was your point not mine - why would you ask me if i want to argue a weak argument? God made everyone - our actions are chosen by us. What we do and dwell on are chosen by us- what we lay at the cross or wallow in is chosen by us.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Show me a heterosexual infant.

EDIT: DAMMIT LIZ!

All of them.

 

[CaDan]

In, like, important news . . . .

Second overtime will be starting shortly in the Stanley Cup finals.

 

[stumpjumper]

Was it logically possible for God to create Liberace and his musical genius, if you like that genre, as a heterosexual?

Yes.

Well then you have a problem with the Problem of Evil and your argument that God does not author sin.

According to standard Christian theology, God is both sovereign and all-powerful. God can do all things that are logically possible so if you want to argue that it is or was logically possible for God to have created Liberace with all of his virtues but as a heterosexual rather than a homosexual than you have both God authoring his sin, if you feel that gay sex is sin, and being a bit of a prankster.

Now, however, there is another way to look at the issue. Most Christian theologians would say that each of us are created with various predisposition to vices but that those vices and/or sinful tendencies are a part of our overall nature and that it is not logically possible for us to be created in a different manner. So, if you look at Liberace, for instance, God could not have created him any other way as it would be logically impossible for him to have his virtues without the vices that correspond to his being. If you want a more detailed sketch, you would have to look up transworld depravity but that's a snippet.

Just read Romans, actually. You see how the most unlikeliest of people are shown to be a part of God's plan...

 

[stumpjumper]

Elton John was actually straight till later in life.

I don't buy the argument for a minute that people choose their sexual orientation.

If that was true most guys would probably be gay. You could watch sports and drink beer with the same person you sleep with.

I would ask you to point me to where i or IAR said otherwise.

I just linked to a post where IAR did argue that.

I'll post it yet again for you here:

Which clearly indicates that Stumpjumper's allusion to
homosexuals being created at some other point in time is also FALSE.

Are gay people now uncreated?

Are they self-created?

Are they created by the demiurge?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Wrong - because God didnt make liberace act on sinful temptations. We chose to act or lay it at the cross. Lastly i dont doubt that the unlikliest people are part of His plan why even satan is used as part of His plan and is judas was used as part of His plan.

We can sin or we can lay it at the cross - dont think for one second i dont have my own i struggle with - i debate in these threads not to condemn anyone as i am also a sinner just with different ones. I come to correct the falsehood that its OK WITH GOD OR BLESSED BY GOD when its not - our sin IS SIN - its not honored and celebrated by God like so many are teaching so falsely these days.

Im sorry that you believe that God is the author of sin - i believe no such thing. Evil in my opinion is the absence of God. Its sinfulness. Its what we create in our flesh APART from God.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I don't buy the argument for a minute that people choose their sexual orientation.

If you dont beleive that Elton John or better Reginald Kenneth Dwight was once a heterosexual then you dont know anything about the man. He was also married to a woman.

If that was true most guys would probably be gay. You could watch sports and drink beer with the same person you drink with.

???????????????

I just linked to a post where IAR did argue that.

I'll post it yet again for you here:



Are gay people now uncreated?

Are they self-created?

Are they created by the demiurge?

That isnt saying to me what you are maintaining- anyone who believes that God didnt create people to be gay or gay from birth believes that and its no gnostic belief unless you are willing to say something science cannot even say - that people are born gay and you are 100 percent of it and God makes them sin then punishes them for it? ridicuous!

 

[Angel4Truth]

I believe a diversion of natural sexuality occurs somewhere in life that causes one to be attracted to those of the same sex. God calls it sin to act on it. No gnostic belief.

We develop all kinds of sinful desires throughout our lives and anyone who denies that denies their own conscience.

 

[onemessiah]

I believe a diversion of natural sexuality occurs somewhere in life that causes one to be attracted to those of the same sex. God calls it sin to act on it. No gnostic belief.

We develop all kinds of sinful desires throughout our lives and anyone who denies that denies their own conscience.

As opposed to "unnatural sexuality"?
Sexuality is as natural as it gets. Regardless of it's inclination. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Angel4Truth]

As opposed to "unnatural sexuality"?
Sexuality is as natural as it gets. Regardless of it's inclination. Regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

Well I dont agree - I do not believe that God makes someone sin deliberately. I believe what the bible says. I also grew up with someone in my own household who for a time deviated from what was natural but now after being saved no longer continues in it.

You and no one else will ever convince me that being gay is anything other than a choice to act on an unnatural temptation that was created because of a specific or several specific incidents in life. Many people with this temptation lay it at the cross and have become cleansed and free of it. They dont celebrate sin and say its ok with God to allow for it.