Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

Iefan said:
I cannot believe that you would presume everyone who says they are Christian is like Christ. That's too disturbing.

I said that christians are called to be conformed to Christ.

Now how do you take that as assuming that I believe everyone who says they are a christian is like Christ???

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

Well, anyhow.

G'night all!

Iefan · Jun 2, 2008

I said I cannot believe that's what you said, and was hoping you'd clarify your stance.

ChaliceThunder · Jun 2, 2008

Imana said:
But what you're saying here isn't what the OP is about. The OP asked a very simple question that it seems, some aren't able (or willing) to simply answer.

It's been answered to death - the Genesis account tells us that God made homosexuals, along with all other human beings.

ChaliceThunder · Jun 2, 2008

Imana said:
Then wouldn't God have included His creation of homosexuals in Genesis???

He did.

ChaliceThunder · Jun 2, 2008

Imana said:
But......gay people aren't mentioned in the beginning of creation. So how is it that you insist that the OP is trashing gays?? That doesn't make sense.

They ARE mentioned. ALL humans are mentioned.

What about, "Male and Female created He them, in His own image" do you not understand?

OllieFranz · Jun 2, 2008

Imana --

I honestly don't know how you can post

"But what you're saying here isn't what the OP is about. The OP asked a very simple question that it seems, some aren't able (or willing) to simply answer."

or

" Where, exactly, in the OP did she dehumanize anyone???

The only reason people think that is because they just might be too much into themselves, which would explain why the question in the OP isn't being answered, but rather avoided."

or

"But......gay people aren't mentioned in the beginning of creation. So how is it that you insist that the OP is trashing gays?? That doesn't make sense."

It is as though you have been reading a different forum thread than the rest of us. Many of the posts examined the OP point by point and found it lacking.

The intent of the OP was to say that since the Creation accounts in Genesis do not mention gays, then God did not create gays. This is exactly the same sort of argument from silence that is , correctly, shot down when someone claims that because Jesus is not quoted in the Gospels as condemning homosexuality. In both cases, there simply is not any positive evidence from which to construct a valid argument.

In addition, the way the OP is phrased, it implies that a second agency, not God, created gays. That is not "a simple question." It is, as Stumpjumper has pointed out, a heresy.

Finally, the IAR has stated that God did not create gays because He did not create bad things. That is where she de-humanized gays. It is not gays reading "God did not create bad things and deciding "I wonder if she's talking about us?" It is IAR herself identifying gays as "bad things." She does not consider herself a "bad thing." She is a human, not a thing, and although she has sinned, she has been forgiven and is in the process of being renewed.

Well gays are not "bad things," either. They are just as human, and no more flawed than IAR is. (Half of Romans and about a third of Galatians make exactly that point about all sinners.) If they are Christians, they are also forgiven and undergoing renewal.

Crazy Liz · Jun 2, 2008

OllieFranz said:
Finally, the IAR has stated that God did not create gays because He did not create bad things. That is where she de-humanized gays. It is not gays reading "God did not create bad things and deciding "I wonder if she's talking about us?" It is IAR herself identifying gays as "bad things." She does not consider herself a "bad thing." She is a human, not a thing, and although she has sinned, she has been forgiven and is in the process of being renewed.

Well gays are not "bad things," either. They are just as human, and no more flawed than IAR is. (Half of Romans and about a third of Galatians make exactly that point about all sinners.) If they are Christians, they are also forgiven and undergoing renewal.

Actually, that was FloatingAxe.

Floatingaxe said:
God doesn't make bad things.

People do.

Therefore, you created your own aberration out of disobedience..

David Brider · Jun 2, 2008

Imana said:
Then wouldn't God have included His creation of homosexuals in Genesis???

The fact that there's no specific record of the creation of homosexual people doesn't mean that they're not part of the "everyone" that God created. There's no specific record of God creating left- or right-handed people, or of God creating people with blonde, brunette, red or brown hair, or people with green, blue, grey or hazel eyes, or with white, black or brown skin, but that doesn't mean that God didn't create people with all those different types of diversity and many others.

David.

lincolngreen50 · Jun 2, 2008

For renewal we have to seek repentence and turn away from sin.all sin and it is not easy. But the Truth of Gods Word can set us free.We should turn away from idols and put Jesus first.Seek only Him and you shall find.

KCKID · Jun 2, 2008

lincolngreen50 said:
For renewal we have to seek repentence and turn away from sin.all sin and it is not easy. But the Truth of Gods Word can set us free.We should turn away from idols and put Jesus first.Seek only Him and you shall find.

Lincoln, my friend, you're caught in a loop. I would suggest that you get your head out of the Bible - at least temporarily - and join us in the real world. The REAL world is that all people are not cookies cut from the same mold. And I thank God for that. Diversity is the spice of life.

Furthermore - and you can check your Bible on this if you like - NOWHERE does it have anything to say about one's sexual orientation, either that of heterosexual or that of a homosexual. Now, the FACTS are that a heterosexual can sin and so too can a homosexual ...but their sexual orientation is not THE sin. Okay?

I can't believe that people are still not catching on.

David Brider · Jun 2, 2008

lincolngreen50 said:
For renewal we have to seek repentence and turn away from sin.all sin and it is not easy. But the Truth of Gods Word can set us free.We should turn away from idols and put Jesus first.Seek only Him and you shall find.

All perfectly true, but I'm not sure how any of it is relevant to the topic under discussion..?

David.

Phinehas2 · Jun 2, 2008

Dear Chalice Thunder,

It's been answered to death - the Genesis account tells us that God made homosexuals, along with all other human beings.

Where? KCKID says

and you can check your Bible on this if you like - NOWHERE does it have anything to say about one's sexual orientation, either that of heterosexual or that of a homosexual.

How would you answer KCKID?

Phinehas2 · Jun 2, 2008

Dear KCKID,

and you can check your Bible on this if you like - NOWHERE does it have anything to say about one's sexual orientation, either that of heterosexual or that of a homosexual.

How would you answer Chalice Thunder who says

.. - the Genesis account tells us that God made homosexuals, along with all other human beings.

OllieFranz · Jun 2, 2008

lincolngreen50 said:
For renewal we have to seek repentence and turn away from sin.all sin and it is not easy. But the Truth of Gods Word can set us free.We should turn away from idols and put Jesus first.Seek only Him and you shall find.

I totally agree -- but I have two questions for you.

1) Did you have to repent and turn away from every sin you ever committed before you were allowed to say the Sinner's Prayer and walk up the aisle? Or was it enough to repent of the sins you were aware of at the time and let the Holy Spirit convict you and lead you to greater repentance afterward? Are you absolutely certain that you were not unknowingly harboring any secret sin?

2) How, then do you read Romans 14, and similar passages in others of Paul's letters, where he speaks of actions that are not sins, but which become sins if, being weak, we believe them to be dishonoring to God. That the weaker brethren should not cast judgment upon those who understand that those actions are not sinful?

Because in light of the fact that none of the verses usually cited to condemn homosexuality actually do so, that is the situation with homosexuality. Yes, gays are sinners. Yes gays can sin sexually, as can straights. But merely being gay is not a sin. Unless you are convinced that -- for you -- it would somehow be dishonoring God to show too much physical affection to another man.

OllieFranz · Jun 2, 2008

Phinehas2 said:
Dear KCKID,

How would you answer Chalice Thunder who says

I'm neither KCKID, nor ChaliceThunder, but I can tell you that, given the context of the charge they were answering, they were essentially saying the same thing.

The OP question was "Where in Genesis did God create homosexuals?" Both answers are that homosexuals are humans, so they were created when Man was created.

KCKID specified the fact that the Genesis account does not say that God created only heterosexual Man, while CT's post simply assumed that.

Phinehas2 · Jun 2, 2008

Dear Olliefranz,
Why are you asking lincolngreen50? Would it not be better to give your testimony?
One cant repent until one has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and become a believer. One cant become a follower and disciple of Jesus Christ unless one has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and starts seeking to obey His teaching which He requires of followers, including repentance.

The example in Romans 14 is about clean and unclean food. Paul is just re-affirming Jesus teaching about not worrying about food, that it doesnt matter what one eats Mark 7. I think what you are doing is assuming it could apply to same-sex sex when obviously it cant as still sticking to OT commands like avoiding certain meat would be the same as avoiding same-sex sex. The faith is weak because the person hasnt yet put their trust fully in Christ but still has some OT law they want to follow. But Romans 14 also warns about not putting a stumbling block in the way of believers, something some gay and lesbian thinking does.

But merely being gay is not a sin.

Nor is is necessarily true, no-one has been able to prove anyone is actually gay.

Unless you are convinced that -- for you -- it would somehow be dishonoring God to show too much physical affection to another man.

What do you mean by physical affection, I show physical affection to other Christian men, I embrace /hug them, but my only sexual relationship is with my wife. So am I gay?
Dont you mean sexual rather than physical?

Phinehas2 · Jun 2, 2008

Dear Olliefranz,

I'm neither KCKID, nor ChaliceThunder, but I can tell you that, given the context of the charge they were answering, they were essentially saying the same thing.

I am saying they aren’t saying the same thing from what they said and the context.

The OP question was "Where in Genesis did God create homosexuals?" Both answers are that homosexuals are humans, so they were created when Man was created.

Nor was I referring to the OP but I was referring to their comments.

The Genesis account says God made male and female, it was for this reason that a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife and the two shall become one flesh, which Jesus affirms means faithful man/woman union.
So no, Genesis 2 does not tell us or imply anything about homosexual or heterosexual and of the modern concept only heterosexual is the creation purpose.
So KCKID’s comment isn’t right because the Bible does address something about his modern concept but CT’s remark is wholly wrong and contradicts KCKID’s.

OllieFranz · Jun 2, 2008

Phinehas2 said:
Dear Olliefranz,
Why are you asking lincolngreen50? Would it not be better to give your testimony?

I asked him the question because his answer while true, did not relate to the topic in the way he apparently thought it did, unless he made certain assumptions. My questions were designed to determine if he, indeed, made those assumptions.

One cant repent until one has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and become a believer. One cant become a follower and disciple of Jesus Christ unless one has accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and starts seeking to obey His teaching which He requires of followers, including repentance.

That is quite true, but as with LincolnGreen50's post, it is unresponsive.

The example in Romans 14 is about clean and unclean food. Paul is just re-affirming Jesus teaching about not worrying about food, that it doesnt matter what one eats Mark 7. I think what you are doing is assuming it could apply to same-sex sex when obviously it cant as still sticking to OT commands like avoiding certain meat would be the same as avoiding same-sex sex.

Actually, there are two examples. Meat and the Sabbath laws. And yes, continuing to follow a strict interpretation of the meat laws, and continuing to follow a strict interpretation of the "man-lying" law are both examples of a weaker brother.

The faith is weak because the person hasnt yet put their trust fully in Christ but still has some OT law they want to follow.

Exactly! Thank you.

But Romans 14 also warns about not putting a stumbling block in the way of believers, something some gay and lesbian thinking does.

Thinking, and even talking, about our freedom in Christ is not putting a stumbling block before the weaker brethren. Otherwise, Paul would never have been able to write Romans 14. It is the actions performed in his presence, and urging him to ignore his own conscience that are the stumbling block.. I would not encourage a gay couple to "play tonsil hockey" in a weaker brother's living room, or even in a public venue if the weaker brother is part of the group.

Nor is is necessarily true, no-one has been able to prove anyone is actually gay.

What do you mean by physical affection, I show physical affection to other Christian men, I embrace /hug them, but my only sexual relationship is with my wife. So am I gay?
Dont you mean sexual rather than physical?

That depends on what you mean by sexual. The old sodomy laws forbade much more than what Leviticus 18:22 did, even taking a broad reading of "man-lying." And I have heard preached from the pulpits condemnation of practices not covered by the sodomy laws. Plus men have been killed as "[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]s" on no more evidence than holding hands. So is holding hands "sexual"? What about giving your neighbor "a holy kiss"?

Phinehas2 · Jun 2, 2008

Dear Olliefranz,

Actually, there are two examples. Meat and the Sabbath laws. And yes, continuing to follow a strict interpretation of the meat laws, and continuing to follow a strict interpretation of the "man-lying" law are both examples of a weaker brother.

No that’s neither here nor there. Mark 7 is just another example of where Jesus fulfils the law concerning dietry commands. The sexual ones are found in such as Matt 19, Mark 10, Eph 5.

Thinking, and even talking, about our freedom in Christ is not putting a stumbling block before the weaker brethren.

Of course not but promoting same-sex sex isn’t freedom in Christ. Freedom in Christ is that we are free not to sin, promoting same-sex sex is promoting sin, otherwise Paul would have never written Romans 1. The person who promotes same-sex sex is not following Christ.

That depends on what you mean by sexual.

No it depends on what you mean by physical, a hug and embrace is physical but the motivation could be love or sex.

Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

2 Corinthians 5:21

2 Corinthians 5:21

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