Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

IamRedeemed · Jun 1, 2008

Twisting the intended question into another question,
is not going to get it. Every one of you KNOW EXACTLY
what the question IS and what it means.

But see, you know you cannot justify the deviation of God's plan as the Scripture
does not make room for that, so what you have to try then to do, is to twist what is
ACTUALLY being said into something that ISN'T being said that of course is able to be
refuted, and in fact I would also be on the other side alongside you refuting the twisted
version you are trying very hard to turn it into, because we know that God created ALL
living things.

If we read the Genesis account, reiterated by Jesus Christ in Matthew and Mark as well
as again by Paul in Ephesians, then we must conclude that there is a disorder which
is addressed in Romans chapter 1:18-32

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;

but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

onemessiah · Jun 1, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
Twisting the intended question into another question,
is not going to get it. Every one of you KNOW EXACTLY
what the question IS and what it means.

But see, you know you cannot justify the deviation of God's plan as the Scripture
does not make room for that, so what you have to try then to do, is to twist what is
ACTUALLY being said into something that ISN'T being said that of course is able to be
refuted, and in fact I would also be on the other side refuting the twisted version
you are trying very hard to turn it into, because we know that God created ALL living
things.

If we read the Genesis account, reiterated by Jesus Christ in Matthew and Mark as well
as again by Paul in Ephesians, then we must conclude that there is a disorder which
is addressed in Romans chapter 1:18-32

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;

but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So who do you propose created homosexuals?

ChaliceThunder · Jun 1, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
... because we know that God created ALL
living things.

Since you admit this, why not just take the further step in humility, and admit the question you posed at the beginning was flawed.

No harm. No foul.

tulc · Jun 1, 2008

Twisting the intended question into another question,
is not going to get it. Every one of you KNOW EXACTLY
what the question IS and what it means.

...which is why everyone has answered the question you asked:

Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

and everyone has said the same thing: since gay people are people they were created when God created Adam and Eve. That you don't agree with the answers given doesn't mean they are wrong. Unless you can demonstrate that being gay suddenly makes you not a human any more your question has been answered several times now.

But see, you know you cannot justify the deviation of God's plan as the Scripture
does not make room for that, so what you have to try then to do, is to twist what is
ACTUALLY being said into something that ISN'T being said that of course is able to be
refuted, and in fact I would also be on the other side alongside you refuting the twisted
version you are trying very hard to turn it into,

uhmmm but that isn't what you were asking and us having to guess what you mean rather then what you ask seems a little much to expect form this medium.

because we know that God created ALL living things.

hmmm it seems you already knew where gay people were created.

If we read the Genesis account, reiterated by Jesus Christ in Matthew and Mark as well
as again by Paul in Ephesians, then we must conclude that there is a disorder which
is addressed in Romans chapter 1:18-32

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them.

For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;

but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:

for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I'm sorry, I didn't see this in the OP.
tulc(trying to understand)

OllieFranz · Jun 1, 2008

IamRedeemed said:
Did I "say that to so many others"?
Or did I "say that to one other person?"

I did not claim you said that to many others. I asked why I was conveniently "forgotten" in a post where you responded to so many others, and then I paraphrased your response to one of them to show how weak your resonse is. Since you did not object to the content of my paraphrase, but only to its application, you clearly agree that it is essentially correct, at least as far as the person to whom it was directed.

While there are several in this forum who have made

it to that list eventually having no desire to hear
and obey the Word of God, or perhaps I've found only participate
to derail, stir a pot or otherwise post non-conducive responses etc.,
the fact is, I only made ONE post to that effect. So, you have
born a false testimony.

Yes, one post, but in response to several different posters, exactly as I stated. No false testimony, at least not on my part.

I will make it a point to search for your post, which may have

been lost in all of the nonsense, but I can tell you that my
expectations of anything more than non-sequitur, strawmen
red herring and ad hominem, based on experience with your
posts are not very high.

I would point out that I quoted my earlier post in the bump post to which this was your response, but a later post of yours shows that you have found it.

And even when I do not hold out any hope for reason and logic in your posts, I do not pre-judge them without reading them.

Also, please point out any instance where one of my posts was non-responsive to the post it supposedly was in response to (non-sequiter), where I deliberately misrepresented your position in order to argue against the misrepresentation rather than your actual position (strawman) or where your person and your character were a main part of my argument (ad hom). (I do admit that in the thread comparing anti-same-sex-marriage to anti-miscegenation, I said that many of the leading churches and their congregations are the same, but that was not to conclude that they were necessarily evil, but to point out that their hermeneutics have not changed.)

Criada · Jun 1, 2008

Where is the record of God creating liars in the creation account?
Where is the record of God creating adulterers in the creation account?
Where is the record of God creating gossips in the creation account?

just wondering....

Crazy Liz · Jun 1, 2008

Back to the OP. I will try to stop at each ? and respond to your questions in order. The first one is in your thread title:

Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

This is the question nearly everyone has answered. The creation account describes the creation of the human species. Since homosexuals are humans, homosexuals are included in the creation of humanity in general.

IamRedeemed said:
Genesis 1:19-31

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that has life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creeps upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

Genesis 2:18-25 tells us the details of how He created every beast in the field, every fowl in the air, how He brought them to Adam to name, how Adam came to realize that each of the types of creations God made, there seemed to be a pair. One slightly different than the other, but a match just the same, but there was no such help meet for him. God saw that Adam was discouraged not having a match like the other creations, and the Word continues to tell us the details of the creation of Eve, whom God made for Adam from Adam's Rib.

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

In the beginning of chapter 2, the very first verse (after chapter 1 told of all the creatures God made before going into the details in chapter 2 of how God made them) it says:

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

So, where is it recorded in the Biblical creation account, these variations (some claim are from God), of the perfect creation God made in His own image (man) and the complimentary creation God made for man (woman), whom God said was good in His sight, commanded to be fruitful and multiply and have dominion over everything in and on the earth?

God was sure to have the scribes even tell about every creeping thing that creeps on the earth and every little bird in the sky. Why is there no mention of these variations of mankind
who seemingly have the same anatomy as the original male and female in the account of
creation?

This is the first question mark I see in the OP.

AFAIK, the same reason there is no mention of any variations in humans - height, weight, eye color, hair color, skin color, etc.

Also, why is it that zero (<----keyword) homosexuals can follow the command to be fruitful and
multiply within their own "preferred" union?

AFAIK, for the same reason zero sterile or impotent people can follow the command to be fruitful and multiply within their own preferred union.

(As an aside, I am assuming for the moment that this is a command, as you have described it, not a blessing. That distinction probably makes little difference to the point you wish to make.)

But otherwise, if following the model we find in Genesis

most certainly can?

I don't get this question.

Logically we would have to conclude that either that it a pretty cruel joke on God's part
(which knowing the character of God, I am personally sure that isn't the case)
OR......some folks are just not being honest and realistic with themselves or
anyone else they try to convince.

kiwimac · Jun 1, 2008

Genesis 1 & 2 are parables, they are parables about why there is an earth, why humans and animals and plants share it in common and why there is pain and suffering in the world. Parables are stories which may or may not be literally true but which impart to us an important spiritual truth. In the New Testament we have parables such as the Good Samaritan, the evil vine-dressers; the parable of the prodigal son.

None of those New Testament stories are literal fact but they are true in a deeper, more meaningful way. So it is with the parables of Genesis 1 & 2. In them we are not being told that the world was created in six days, six thousand years ago. We are, however, being told that the world was created by God's intention, that human beings are made in the image and likeness of God and that God is as close to us as a friend who walks and talks with us in the cool of the day.

Adam and Eve, the Fall, the Serpent, Noah and his Ark may or may not be literal truth but they are markers of ultimate truth, of truth which can be held only in the imagination, of truth which can only be shown in images and symbols.

Genesis can only be understood in that it is our story, each of us is Adam, each of us is Eve, we misunderstand the Genesis parables when we fail to realize that they are addressed to US. Genesis, then, is our unique, individual story told as parable.

ChaliceThunder · Jun 1, 2008

Beautifully put, Kiwimac! Thank you!

Tenebrae · Jun 1, 2008

Where in the creation account did God create TV's, Automobiles, computers, cell phones?

Or people with disabilities, or people of different cultures, or politicans. Just because the bible doesnt mention it, doesnt mean it didnt happen.

I am gay, I've been this way for as long as I can remember and no it was never a conscious choice to be gay. I've always liked girls.

OllieFranz · Jun 1, 2008

Tenebrae said:
Where in the creation account did God create TV's, Automobiles, computers, cell phones?

Or people with disabilities, or people of different cultures, or politicians. Just because the bible doesn't mention it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
(Emphasis mine)

Good point. People with disabilities, especially those with "crushed stones" or having their "privy member cut off" were to be cast out of the tribe. (Deuteronomy 23:1) Things like that are almost never a deliberate choice. There is nothing in the Bible to even hint that homosexuality is a deliberate choice. We no longer ostracize the handicapped. We should not ostracize the GLBT, either.

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

ChaliceThunder said:
Being fruitful and multiplying is not anyone's reason for being; nor is it part of the Great Commandment of Christ.

Love God.
Love your neighbor as yourself.

Nothing about standing in judgment of your neighbor...unless you are standing in judgment of yourself.

Why not leave that to God?

But what you're saying here isn't what the OP is about. The OP asked a very simple question that it seems, some aren't able (or willing) to simply answer.

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

catlover said:
Dehumanizing people is so wrong-God didn't create homosexuals? So I guess they are beneath God and a "freak" of nature...nice...why Christian forums allows such nonsense and UNChristian propoganda is beyond me.

Where, exactly, in the OP did she dehumanize anyone???

The only reason people think that is because they just might be too much into themselves, which would explain why the question in the OP isn't being answered, but rather avoided.

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

David Brider said:
God creates everyone.

Everyone includes homosexuals.

Therefore God creates homosexuals.

QED.

David.

Then wouldn't God have included His creation of homosexuals in Genesis???

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

ChaliceThunder said:
You bring up a good point.

God made us all - gay and straight people, in the image of God.

How dare anyone try to dehumanize us? To do so is to trash God's work in creation.

But......gay people aren't mentioned in the beginning of creation. So how is it that you insist that the OP is trashing gays?? That doesn't make sense.

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

Zecryphon said:
Well, let's see what we have here. We have IAR posting scripture and asking a legitimate but very loaded question. And as of yet NO ONE has addressed the question asked in the OP. Everyone has gone off topic and engaged in making personal observations about IAR, saying she's judgmental and being UNChristian. But from where I'm sitting it's her opponents who are avoiding the question she raised in the OP, and making personal, judgment-based comments about her. There's definitely unChristian and unloving behavior going on in this thread. Too bad it's not coming from the OP. You guys are reading judgment into her post. She quoted scripture and asked a question. Can anyone answer the question? Yes or no?

Exactly.

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

onemessiah said:
I propose that everyone else is avoiding my observation that God is quite the prankster. Can you logically refute that, or can you just spew rhetoric about what you believe about god and what you think you know about him?

Well, christians are called to be conformed to Christ, aren't they? So wouldn't that be something that merits us knowing something about God?

Iefan · Jun 2, 2008

I cannot believe that you would presume everyone who says they are Christian is like Christ. That's too disturbing.

HighwayMan · Jun 2, 2008

Imana said:
Then wouldn't God have included His creation of homosexuals in Genesis???

He also kind of omitted the other trillions upon trillions of things of creation.

I really fail to see how this is a debate at all, if one tries to apply simple reason to this. If gays aren't born gay, then what? They are lying to themselves that they don't find the opposite gender attractive because...? Am I lying to myself that my fav. color is blue too?

Leah · Jun 2, 2008

David Brider said:
So homosexuals are "bad things"? Well, that's sweet of you to say so. I imagine there're more than a few people round here who might be rather offended by that.

Face it - homosexuals are people just like you. God loved them enough to go to the cross for them, just like He did for you and me. He didn't regard them as "bad things". For you to regard them as "bad things" is an insult to God.

David.

Well, if some insist that God created gays and are proud of it, then what difference should it make if people say "God doesn't created bad things"? It seems to me that ya'll are confident in all of God's creations, so why take offense to such statements??

Where is the record of God creating Homosexuals in the Creation Account?

Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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