Where is the line with "playing God"?

[juvenissun]

I would imagine, the families of the 9 million children that die each year before the age of five do a whole lot of praying and their children still die.

May be 18 million were sick and only 9 million died.

 

[bhsmte]

May be 18 million were sick and only 9 million died.

I wouldn't think all sick people die.

9 million children is quite a number though, which is just how it goes I guess.

 

[juvenissun]

I wouldn't think all sick people die.

9 million children is quite a number though, which is just how it goes I guess.

Exactly. That is why player still may work in many cases.

 

[The Cadet]

Exactly. That is why player still may work in many cases.

But don't you see the problem with that study?

We have two groups: those who died and those who lived. Of those who lived, there are those who lived naturally, and those who lived because of prayer. How could we differentiate between those groups? If you can't, then the thing you're trying to study is not being studied. That's why we need to split those 18 million into two groups: those being prayed for, and those not being prayed for, and compare the results between the two groups. Which is what these studies do: they compare those rates. And the results are simply not flattering for the effectiveness of prayer.

 

[bhsmte]

Exactly. That is why player still may work in many cases.

Well, in 9 million cases of children younger than five, it fails.

But while all this is going on, some christian will praise God for finding them a new and better job.

 

[juvenissun]

But don't you see the problem with that study?

We have two groups: those who died and those who lived. Of those who lived, there are those who lived naturally, and those who lived because of prayer. How could we differentiate between those groups? If you can't, then the thing you're trying to study is not being studied. That's why we need to split those 18 million into two groups: those being prayed for, and those not being prayed for, and compare the results between the two groups. Which is what these studies do: they compare those rates. And the results are simply not flattering for the effectiveness of prayer.

Everyone would see the problem. So the experiment is poorly designed.

 

[juvenissun]

Well, in 9 million cases of children younger than five, it fails.

But while all this is going on, some christian will praise God for finding them a new and better job.

Why is it a fail? Even one is saved by prayer, it is a success.
What new and better job? Captain of Pray Warriors?

 

[bhsmte]

Why is it a fail? Even one is saved by prayer, it is a success.
What new and better job? Captain of Pray Warriors?

Tell that to the 9 million parents who pray for their child to be saved.

 

[AV1611VET]

Tell that to the 9 million parents who pray for their child to be saved.

Until a person reaches the age of accountability, they will die and go to Heaven.

This includes children born to parents who are scientists.

 

[The Cadet]

Why is it a fail? Even one is saved by prayer, it is a success.

But it's impossible to tell. How do you determine between a child who lived due to random circumstances and a child who lived because of prayer?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Some people believe that life begins at conception. That if the embryo were to die that they go to heaven and are "born" there. This is a issue so that people try to find donors for their unborn embryos.

I always find it funny when someone tries to defend such a view.
Because it logically results in a moral duty to perform an abortion in every pregnancy. If the point of life is to reach heaven and if the duty of a christians is to help others to reach heaven, then performing abortions becomes a moral duty.

I know it's off topic, but I can never let it slide when someone makes such a statement...

 

[DogmaHunter]

Each twin grows as a separate person -- even in utero. Identical twins never even have the same fingerprints, thanks to slight variations in womb pressures and amniotic fluid.

After birth, twins keep marching down their own developmental paths, thanks to their environment. Everything from diet to lifestyle choices can trigger changes in how their genes are expressed (welcome to the world of epigenetics!). For example, Mary-Kate and Ashley might have identical genes for a particular health problem, but only Mary-Kates' environment will flip the gene to the "on" position.

All this is completely irrelevant.

A clone is a clone is a clone.

"Clone" doesn't mean that both individuals must lead identical lives.

It just means that they start out with identical genomes.

 

[DogmaHunter]

In fact, there are indeed many ways to design the test. But scientists do not do that because nobody will fund such kind of experiment.

Really? Ken Ham spends millions of dollars on his Creation Museum and his Ark project, but he won't fund this experiment you speak of?

All those millionair evangelicals? None of them are willing to fund a test to support their religion?

Kind of strange, isn't it?
Clearly, these people have no problem spending millions of dollars on their propaganda... and you are trying to tell us that none of them is prepared to fund an experiment to prove their religion?

Be serious now....

 

[DogmaHunter]

Until a person reaches the age of accountability, they will die and go to Heaven.
This includes children born to parents who are scientists.

This would turn mass-murders who only kill toddlers and babies, into morally justified knights of salvation.

 

[AV1611VET]

This would turn mass-murders who only kill toddlers and babies, into morally justified knights of salvation.

Actually it wouldn't.[VERSE=Exodus 20:13,KJV]Thou shalt not kill.[/VERSE]He may be viewed as "morally justified" by scientific methodists, but in God's eyes he would be breaking one of the Ten Commandments.

You know?

Those "Ten Suggestions" that many feel are reprehensible on public property?

 

[joshua 1 9]

I always find it funny when someone tries to defend such a view.
Because it logically results in a moral duty to perform an abortion in every pregnancy. If the point of life is to reach heaven and if the duty of a christians is to help others to reach heaven, then performing abortions becomes a moral duty.

I know it's off topic, but I can never let it slide when someone makes such a statement...

There is nothing moral about abortion. Clearly we are told to choose life. God gives us that choice. Yet abortionists will try to justify themselves when they encourage people to make the wrong choice. Of course there are going to be people who reject God and reject life. That is what choice is all about.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Actually it wouldn't.[VERSE=Exodus 20:13,KJV]Thou shalt not kill.[/VERSE]He may be viewed as "morally justified" by scientific methodists, but in God's eyes he would be breaking one of the Ten Commandments.

So, the dude would be sacrificing his own soul so that many hundreds of others would be guaranteed of salvation.

Sounds pretty heroic to me...

You know?
Those "Ten Suggestions" that many feel are reprehensible on public property?

What about the other 603?

 

[DogmaHunter]

There is nothing moral about abortion. Clearly we are told to choose life. God gives us that choice. Yet abortionists will try to justify themselves when they encourage people to make the wrong choice. Of course there are going to be people who reject God and reject life. That is what choice is all about.

An "abortionist"? What is that?

I was just replying to your statement, that some people believe that unborn children that die go straight to heaven.

From that logically follows that if you as a parent want to be sure that your kid gets into paradise, the best course of action would be to abort it.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, the dude would be sacrificing his own soul so that many hundreds of others would be guaranteed of salvation.

The dude would realize too late that breaking any of the Ten Commandments has nothing to do with his salvation.

Sounds pretty heroic to me...

Sounds kinda Kleboldish & Harrish to me.

What about the other 603?

What about them?

 

[AV1611VET]

From that logically follows that if you as a parent want to be sure that your kid gets into paradise, the best course of action would be to abort it.

And we, as responsible citizens, should want to be sure that that parent gets the death penalty (after due process) ... right?