Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

[Jeffrey Bowden]

So the great multitude of Rev 7:9, according to Jeffery, are people converted after the Sixth Seal event?
I thought your belief and that of all pre-trib rapture believers, was that they are the Christian Church, whisked away BEFORE any tribulation.

Rapture to heaven believers constantly contradict themselves and look very silly.

The Church will be kept from the Trib (Rev 3:10). Only unbelievers will enter the Trib (Rev 3:10). Rev 4:1 is unfulfilled. It will be fulfilled upon 1 Th 4:16, 1 Cor 15:52 and 1 Th 4:17.

Millions of new converts will be saved from the Trib by the brilliant work of the 144k. Those new converts will be known as “the great multitude” (GM). The GM is in Heaven in Rev 7:9-17.

It’s been a good day. One Preterist finally learned the truth.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

The beast will be king 8 - having been king 7 of 7 kings in Revelation 17:10-11. They are kings, all of the same blood line, of the Roman Empire.

He (as the little horn person) will be king 7 (a leader of the EU). Then after he is killed and comes back to life, he will become the beast, king 8 (dictator of the EU). He will continue as king 8, the beast, for a short space of 42 months, Revelation 13:5.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Take note of verse 11. The phrase using these three verbs - "was, and is not, even he is" - means....

was - he was alive
is not - then dies
even he is - then come back to life.

A similar set of three verbs is used to Revelation 1:4 regarding Jesus...

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

is - presently alive
was - His first coming
is to come - His Second Coming

The same set of three verbs, regarding Jesus is in Revelation 1:8

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

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By the set of verbs applying to the beast in Revelation 17:11, we know that the beast person will be killed and then comes back to life. The world will wonder after him for that reason. It will appear to the world as though the beast person has obtained power over death.

The beast in Rev 17 comes out of the bottomless pit. The bottomless pit is never used for humans. It is a spiritual prison used only for fallen angels. Therefore, the AC was never in a bottomless pit.

Also, during the time you think the AC was in and coming out of a bottomless pit, violates his military itinerary. After he desecrates the temple in Matt 24:15, he's involved in wars that lead to Armageddon. His only diversion from that is when he hunts down the 2W to kill them.

You therefore have the wrong beast that you think is the AC.

 

[Douggg]

The beast in Rev 17 comes out of the bottomless pit. The bottomless pit is never used for humans. It is a spiritual prison used only for fallen angels. Therefore, the AC was never in a bottomless pit

I agree that the Antichrist person, himself. was never in the bottomless pit.

The bottomless pit though is not just for fallen angels. But also unclean spirits. Such as the spirit of the serpent beast that was in the garden of Eden which sold out to Satan to deceive Adam and Eve into sin by eating from the forbidden tree - by lying to them if they did that they would be "as gods". Genesis 3:5.

Eve ate first, then Adam.

The disembodied spirit of the serpent beast is what will ascend out of the bottomless pit to possess the come back to life revealed man of sin - to become the beast-king.

Also, during the time you think the AC was in and coming out of a bottomless pit, violates his military itinerary. After he desecrates the temple in Matt 24:15, he's involved in wars that lead to Armageddon. His only diversion from that is when he hunts down the 2W to kill them.

No, I don't think the Antichrist person himself was ever in the bottomless pit. Nor himself comes out it. Nor will ever go into the bottomless pit.

It is the disembodied spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, to possess the Antichrist person - so that the Antichrist person becomes the beast-king.

Being possessed by the spirit of the serpent beast, the beast-king will act with the same sort of cunning and deception of the garden of Eden serpent.

Will not the Antichrist in 2Thessalonains2:4 be revealed as the man of sin, when he sits in the temple of God and claims to have achieved God-hood ? And did not the garden of Eden serpent beast deceive man into sin, saying that man would be as gods, if man eats from the forbidden tree?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

In Rev

I agree that the Antichrist person, himself. was never in the bottomless pit.

The bottomless pit though is not just for fallen angels. But also unclean spirits. Such as the spirit of the serpent beast that was in the garden of Eden which sold out to Satan to deceive Adam and Eve into sin by eating from the forbidden tree - by lying to them if they did that they would be "as gods". Genesis 3:5.

Eve ate first, then Adam.

The disembodied spirit of the serpent beast is what will ascend out of the bottomless pit to possess the come back to life revealed man of sin - to become the beast-king.



No, I don't think the Antichrist person himself was ever in the bottomless pit. Nor himself comes out it. Nor will ever go into the bottomless pit.

It is the disembodied spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, to possess the Antichrist person - so that the Antichrist person becomes the beast-king.

Being possessed by the spirit of the serpent beast, the beast-king will act with the same sort of cunning and deception of the garden of Eden serpent.

Will not the Antichrist in 2Thessalonains2:4 be revealed as the man of sin, when he sits in the temple of God and claims to have achieved God-hood ? And did not the garden of Eden serpent beast deceive man into sin, saying that man would be as gods, if man eats from the forbidden tree?

I agree that the Antichrist person, himself. was never in the bottomless pit.

The bottomless pit though is not just for fallen angels. But also unclean spirits. Such as the spirit of the serpent beast that was in the garden of Eden which sold out to Satan to deceive Adam and Eve into sin by eating from the forbidden tree - by lying to them if they did that they would be "as gods". Genesis 3:5.

Eve ate first, then Adam.

The disembodied spirit of the serpent beast is what will ascend out of the bottomless pit to possess the come back to life revealed man of sin - to become the beast-king.



No, I don't think the Antichrist person himself was ever in the bottomless pit. Nor himself comes out it. Nor will ever go into the bottomless pit.

It is the disembodied spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, to possess the Antichrist person - so that the Antichrist person becomes the beast-king.

Being possessed by the spirit of the serpent beast, the beast-king will act with the same sort of cunning and deception of the garden of Eden serpent.

Will not the Antichrist in 2Thessalonains2:4 be revealed as the man of sin, when he sits in the temple of God and claims to have achieved God-hood ? And did not the garden of Eden serpent beast deceive man into sin, saying that man would be as gods, if man eats from the forbidden tree?

Satan was the serpent in Gen 3:4.

Satan is referred to later as “that ancient serpent.”

Rev 12:9 (ESV): And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Also, Rev 20:2 (ESV): And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I agree that the Antichrist person, himself. was never in the bottomless pit.

The bottomless pit though is not just for fallen angels. But also unclean spirits. Such as the spirit of the serpent beast that was in the garden of Eden which sold out to Satan to deceive Adam and Eve into sin by eating from the forbidden tree - by lying to them if they did that they would be "as gods". Genesis 3:5.

Eve ate first, then Adam.

The disembodied spirit of the serpent beast is what will ascend out of the bottomless pit to possess the come back to life revealed man of sin - to become the beast-king.



No, I don't think the Antichrist person himself was ever in the bottomless pit. Nor himself comes out it. Nor will ever go into the bottomless pit.

It is the disembodied spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, to possess the Antichrist person - so that the Antichrist person becomes the beast-king.

Being possessed by the spirit of the serpent beast, the beast-king will act with the same sort of cunning and deception of the garden of Eden serpent.

Will not the Antichrist in 2Thessalonains2:4 be revealed as the man of sin, when he sits in the temple of God and claims to have achieved God-hood ? And did not the garden of Eden serpent beast deceive man into sin, saying that man would be as gods, if man eats from the forbidden tree?

A fallen angel is an angel guilty of sin and for that reason was thrown out of Heaven. They are demons. They indwell humans.

Judas Iscariot was indwelled by Satan. Luke 22:3 (NIV): Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.

Satan will be in control of the AC. It’s never said he indwells the AC. However, the AC will be Satan’s one last hope to deceive the world. It’s therefore Satan’s past behavior that states he will probably indwell the AC.

 

[Douggg]

Judas Iscariot was indwelled by Satan. Luke 22:3 (NIV): Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.

Satan will be in control of the AC. It’s never said he indwells the AC. However, the AC will be Satan’s one last hope to deceive the world. It’s therefore Satan’s past behavior that states he will probably indwell the AC.

I don't think that Judas was literally indwelled by Satan, but that Judas' betrayal of Jesus was inspired by Satan.

Just as when in Matthew 24:23....

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

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Satan will indwell the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king. Making it appear to come alive and speak.

When Jesus returns, He will cause that statue image to burst into flames, turning it to ashes, exposing Satan there on the temple mount.

Ezekiel 28:16-19 indicates that will happen...

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

I don't think that Judas was literally indwelled by Satan, but that Jusdas' betrayal of Jesus was inspired by Satan.

Just as when in Matthew 24:23....

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Satan will indwell the abomination of desolation statue image of the beast-king. Making it appear to come alive and speak.

When Jesus returns, He will cause that statue image to burst into flames, turning it to ashes, exposing Satan there on the temple mount.

Ezekiel 28:16-19 indicates that will happen...

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

How can you say, “I don't think that Judas was literally indwelled by Satan.” when Luke 22:3 says what it says below?

Luke 22:3 (NIV): Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.

 

[Douggg]

How can you say, “I don't think that Judas was literally indwelled by Satan.” when Luke 22:3 says what it says below?

Luke 22:3 (NIV): Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve.

In Luke 22:2, the chief priests and scribes desired to kill Jesus, but they feared harm to themselves because of the number of people who believed Jesus was the messiah.

To circumvent their fears, Satan entered the mind of Judas, i.e. put thoughts into Judas's heart and mind to devise a plot with the chiefs priest and captains on how to have Jesus arrested when there were not crowds around. Judas appears to have been a person motivated by money, because in Matthew 26:15, he asked the chief priest how much they would give him. Thirty pieces of silver was agreed to.

We also know about Judas's greed for money from John 12:4-6. Verse 6 referred to Judas as a thief.

Here how we know that Satan did not literally enter, i.e. possess Judas.... but instead influenced Judas's thoughts and feelings, whispering in his ear so to speak, playing upon Judas's greed for money.

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

Later in Matthew 27:1-5, Judas, his conscience troubling him over what he had done returned the thirty pieces of silver, repenting over his sin, so sorrowful of what he had done that he went and hung himself.

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Jesus knew long ahead of time that Judas would eventually betray him.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

I think "devil" in that case meant an opposer.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

In Luke 22:2, the chief priests and scribes desired to kill Jesus, but they feared harm to themselves because of the number of people who believed Jesus was the messiah.

To circumvent their fears, Satan entered the mind of Judas, i.e. put thoughts into Judas's heart and mind to devise a plot with the chiefs priest and captains on how to have Jesus arrested when there were not crowds around. Judas appears to have been a person motivated by money, because in Matthew 26:15, he asked the chief priest how much they would give him. Thirty pieces of silver was agreed to.

We also know about Judas's greed for money from John 12:4-6. Verse 6 referred to Judas as a thief.

Here how we know that Satan did not literally enter, i.e. possess Judas.... but instead influenced Judas's thoughts and feelings, whispering in his ear so to speak, playing upon Judas's greed for money.

John 13:2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;

Later in Matthew 27:1-5, Judas, his conscience troubling him over what he had done returned the thirty pieces of silver, repenting over his sin, so sorrowful of what he had done that he went and hung himself.

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Jesus knew long ahead of time that Judas would eventually betray him.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

71 He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

I think "devil" in that case meant an opposer.

Every Bible version of Luke 22:3 proves you wrong. When will you admit the truth?

 

[Douggg]

Every Bible version of Luke 22:3 proves you wrong. When will you admit the truth?


View attachment 365677

Jeffrey, I suggest that you not post using your cell phone.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jeffrey, I suggest that you not post using your cell phone.

Thank you for your suggestion.

Did Satan indwell Judas Iscariot?

 

[Douggg]

Thank you for your suggestion.

Did Satan indwell Judas Iscariot?

In terms of possession, I don't think so. I think Satan put thoughts into Judas that Judas would betray Jesus in a manner that Jesus would be arrested at night - when everyone was sleeping - when there weren't any crowds around to prevent the arrest.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

In terms of possession, I don't think so. I think Satan put thoughts into Judas that Judas would betray Jesus in a manner that Jesus would be arrested at night - when everyone was sleeping - when there weren't any crowds around to prevent the arrest.

Doug, the verses I sent you all confirm that Satan entered Judas Iscariot. Why do you not see that this means he indwelled him?

 

[Douggg]

Doug, the verses I sent you all confirm that Satan entered Judas Iscariot. Why do you not see that this means he indwelled him?

Because if Satan indwelled Judas, Judas would not have repented of his betrayal of Jesus, and returned the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priest, and be so sorrowful of his actions that he hung himself.

If Satan indwelled Judas, Judas would have boasted of his betrayal of Jesus, and not repented.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Because if Satan indwelled Judas, Judas would not have repented of his betrayal of Jesus, and returned the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priest, and be so sorrowful of his actions that he hung himself.

If Satan indwelled Judas, Judas would have boasted of his betrayal of Jesus, and not repented.

John 13:26-30 (ESV): Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.” 28 Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him.29 Some thought that, because Judas had the moneybag, Jesus was telling him, “Buy what we need for the feast,” or that he should give something to the poor. 30 So, after receiving the morsel of bread, he immediately went out. And it was night.

Satan entered Judas in verse 27. Satan’s purpose was to see to it Judas betrayed Jesus by later telling the Roman soldiers where they could find Jesus. Satan’s goal was the killing of Jesus. When the Roman soldiers had arrested Jesus to take Him away, Satan’s mission was accomplished.

 

[Douggg]

John 13:26-30 (ESV): Jesus answered, “It is he to whom I will give this morsel of bread when I have dipped it.” So when he had dipped the morsel, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 Then after he had taken the morsel, Satan entered into him. Jesus said to him, “What you are going to do, do quickly.” 28 Now no one at the table knew why he said this to him.29 Some thought that, because Judas had the moneybag, Jesus was telling him, “Buy what we need for the feast,” or that he should give something to the poor. 30 So, after receiving the morsel of bread, he immediately went out. And it was night.

Satan entered Judas in verse 27. Satan’s purpose was to see to it Judas betrayed Jesus by later telling the Roman soldiers where they could find Jesus. Satan’s goal was the killing of Jesus. When the Roman soldiers had arrested Jesus to take Him away, Satan’s mission was accomplished.

Jeffrey, if Satan indwelled Judas, to possess him, what bible verse says that Satan was cast out of Judas ?

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Jeffrey, if Satan indwelled Judas, to possess him, what bible verse says that Satan was cast out of Judas ?

None. There doesn’t have to be. “Entered into” means Satan indwelled Judas long enough to achieve his immediate goal: Jesus arrested and taken away.

 

[Douggg]

None. There doesn’t have to be. “Entered into” means Satan indwelled Judas long enough to achieve his immediate goal: Jesus arrested and taken away.

Judas made the deal to betray Jesus for thirty pieces of silver before the last supper took place.

The verse in John 13:26-27 of Satan entering Judas is during the last supper. Jesus already knew though that Judas would betray him, in verse 21.

I don't think that Satan suddenly possessed Judas to carry out the act, as Judas was going to do it anyway. But Judas did what Satan wanted.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Judas made the deal to betray Jesus for thirty pieces of silver before the last supper took place.

The verse in John 13:26-27 of Satan entering Judas is during the last supper. Jesus already knew though that Judas would betray him, in verse 21.

I don't think that Satan suddenly possessed Judas to carry out the act, as Judas was going to do it anyway. But Judas did what Satan wanted.

Satan indwelled Judas in verse 27. Judas then left the last supper to betray Jesus. Of course, Jesus knew what Judas was going to do. Satan was compelled to indwell Judas to make sure he did what Satan wanted him to do.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Judas made the deal to betray Jesus for thirty pieces of silver before the last supper took place.

The verse in John 13:26-27 of Satan entering Judas is during the last supper. Jesus already knew though that Judas would betray him, in verse 21.

I don't think that Satan suddenly possessed Judas to carry out the act, as Judas was going to do it anyway. But Judas did what Satan wanted.

To know approximately how long Satan indwelled Judas is from John 13:27 to just before Judas became remorseful of his betrayal of Jesus.