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Rev 6:11 is about two groups of "fellow servants" that will make up the GM. Once the second group of martyrs is under the altar (Rev 6:9), they are all resurrected together in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. They all are then seen in Heaven during the GT (Rev 7:9-17).Where did the Great Multitude come from?
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, what are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:13 And *(1st) of the elders (Rev 5:5) answered, saying (participating authority) unto me (John), What are these (the great (significant) multitude) which are arrayed in white (purity) robes (Rev 7:12)? and whence (where did they come from) came they?
Rev 5:5 And *one of the elders says to me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the book, and to lose its seven seals.
What are these? (Rev Chapters 2&3
Significant Multitude are Tribulation Saints
- Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and languages, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God who sit upon the throne, and to the Lamb.
- Rev 7:14-17 And I said to him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, These are they (Tribulation Saints) who came out of great (significant) tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev 7:15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple (1000-year Kingdom): and he (Jesus) that sits on the throne will dwell among them (New Creation). Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. Rev 7:17 For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them, and will lead them to living fountains of waters: and God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
Rev 7:14a And I (John) said unto him (1st Elder), Sir, you know. And he said to me (John), These (the significant multitude) are they which came out of great (significant Tribulation (Saints), and have washed their robes,
It’s my belief the Seven Seals take place between the Resurrection and Tribulation. About a Seven Year Period of Time, beginning with the conclusion of the gog war (Ezek 38, 39) and ending with the conclusion of the Seventh Seal (Rev 8:1-5).
Rev 7:14a And I (John) said unto him, Sir, you know. And he said to me (John), These (the great multitude) are they which came out of great tribulation (Saints),
Different Groups of Saints
Christians are Resurrected, Denominationalist remain on Earth
Scourge Saints: Rev 5:8-10 Rev 6:9-11
Tribulation Saints before the Image Rev 7:9-17 Dan 9:27
Beheaded Tribulation Saints: Rev 13:7, 12:6, 14-17, Rev 14:12,13 Rev 15:2-4 Rev 20:4
From Resurrection to the 8th Seal are the group of Scourge Saints: Rev 5:8-10 Rev 6:9-11 (do not enter tribulation)
1st Trumpet until the last thirty days of the 6th Trumpet are a group of Tribulation Saints: Rev 7:9,10, 14-17 (not necessarily beheaded)
From the last thirty days of the 6th Trumpet through the Great Tribulation: Rev 13:7 Rev 14:6,7 Rev 14:9-11 Rev 15:2-4 Rev 20:4 (Image Tribulation Saints these saints are beheaded)
6th Trumpet Kingdom Saints are from the last thirty days of the 6th Trumpet through the Great Tribulation: Rev 12:6, 14-17
Rev 7:14 continues
Rev 7:14b (significant multitude) and made them (robes) white in the blood of the Lamb (tittle of Jesus).
Denominationalists left on Earth that are Victorious through the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus Christ are given the nineteen gifts offered by Jesus. Rev chapters 2&3
Beginning of Denominationalism Matt 26:14-16 Mark 14:15, 44 Acts 3:14,15 Luke 22:5,6 Luke 22:47,48 unholy kiss John 12:6-money bag Luke 22:5,6 Rev 1:18 3:20 Isa 28:15-18-SCOURGE {Jer 6:30 Luke 18:33 2Tim 3:7-9 Titus 1:16 Rev 2&3})
Nineteen Gifts offered by Jesus to the Membership within the Seven Divisions forming the General Assembly of the Denominational Church system left on Earth:
1st Division Ephesus Rev 2:7 Eat of Tree of Life, Access to Midst of Paradise of God
2nd Division Smyrna Rev 2:10,11 Crown of Life, Escapes 2nd Death.
3rd Division Pergamos Rev 2:17 Hidden Manna, White Stone, New Name
4th Division Thyatira 2:26-29 Power over Nations, Rod of Iron, Morning Star
5th Division Sardis Rev 3:5,6 White Raiment, Eternal Life, Confession
6th Division Philadelphia Rev 3:12,13 Pillar, Rest, Name of God, City of God, New Name Jesus
7th Division Laodicea Rev 3:21,22 Sit with Jesus on Throne
The Blood of the Lamb
Rev 18:24 And in her (Jerusalem) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he has judged the great harlot (Jerusalem), which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, you are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, how long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him (son of perdition) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Anyone as gullible as you are, believing the 'locusts of Joel and Revelation, are real living giant insects, don't need to be refuted, you discredit yourself.Keras, you criticize when you can't refute. Thank you for admitting defeat.
No one can agree with this, as it is all a blatant addition to Scripture.Rev 6:11 is about two groups of "fellow servants" that will make up the GM. Once the second group of martyrs is under the altar (Rev 6:9), they are all resurrected together in the last sentence of Rev 20:4. They all are then seen in Heaven during the GT (Rev 7:9-17).
You haven't disproven a thing about what I said.Anyone as gullible as you are, believing the 'locusts of Joel and Revelation, are real living giant insects, don't need to be refuted, you discredit yourself.
Then refute it. Let's hear your take on the martyrs from the early seals (Rev 6:9). Let's also hear your take on the "fellow servants" in Rev 6:11.No one can agree with this, as it is all a blatant addition to Scripture.
Then refute it. Let's hear your take on the martyrs from the early seals (Rev 6:9). Let's also hear your take on the "fellow servants" in Rev 6:11.
"No one" is a very broad phrase, Keras. Also, "a blatant addition to Scripture" is another false claim because you have no proof to back it up.No one can agree with this, as it is all a blatant addition to Scripture.
We have argued for months, and you still ask this?Are you a Preterist?
You still make accusations without any proof to back them up. You still dodge questions. You still make Jesus and apostle John wrong. I quote them and you think I’m unscriptural. Where’s your proof?We have argued for months, and you still ask this?
You are so deeply entrenched in false and unscriptural beliefs, that any further discussion with you useless. You have clearly shown how deceived and confused you are. Even other rapture believers shun you.
You take things out of context to attempt to invalidate the pre-Trib rapture (Rev 4:1).People believe in a ‘rapture to heaven’, pre, mid, post or anytime; which shows up the lack of Biblical support and the inability of rapture believers to agree on any aspect of that theory.
Where does this idea come from? It isn’t stated anywhere in the Bible and those who promote it must use inferences and assumptions to make verses fit their belief.
But when Jesus Himself tells us that such an idea is impossible, then we know it is just a fable, a false theory, like Paul says; will be prevalent in the latter days. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
Jesus said:
John 3:13 No one has gone up to heaven, except the One who came down from there…
John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.
John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….
John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.
Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.
Evidence enough that people never go to heaven. Only their souls, after death, go back to the One who made them, where they await the Great White Throne Judgement at the end of the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
The whole theory of a rapture to heaven contradicts what we are told that the Lord will do for His people; protection during the terrible times ahead. And for those who do stand firm in their faith, who call upon His Name when disaster strikes, there is the promise of tremendous blessings, spiritual and physical to every faithful Christian.
Your demands of Jesus, are like a petuulant child. He will not do what He has never said He would.Jesus will command us, in Rev 4:1, to “Come up here!
Keras, you do not recognize verses that apply solely to Jews. Matt 24:13 and 22 are about the Jews that will be subject to God’s wrath in the Trib.Your demands of Jesus, are like a petuulant child. He will not do what He has never said He would.
What Jesus did say; was that we must stand firm in our faith and keep His Commands until the end. Matthew 28:20
Jesus said in Rev 3:10 ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.Your demands of Jesus, are like a petuulant child. He will not do what He has never said He would.
What Jesus did say; was that we must stand firm in our faith and keep His Commands until the end. Matthew 28:20
What demands have I made of Jesus?Your demands of Jesus, are like a petuulant child. He will not do what He has never said He would.
What Jesus did say; was that we must stand firm in our faith and keep His Commands until the end. Matthew 28:20
That He take you direct to heaven before any testing or Judgment.What demands have I made of Jesus?
Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5-7, prove that Gods holy people are on earth during the Great Trib.Rev 6:4 proves no believers enter the Trib. Rev 6:15-17 prove the same thing. Rev 9:4 is another good example. Those “who dwell on the earth” is a phrase that, in the context of the Trib, only refers to unbelievers (two examples: Rev 6:10 and Rev 11:10).
Jesus’ words in Rev 3:10 provably mean that the Church will not be on Earth during the Trib.
This is just a wrong opinion, not scriptural at all.Keras, you do not recognize verses that apply solely to Jews. Matt 24:13 and 22 are about the Jews that will be subject to God’s wrath in the Trib.
So, if someone disagrees with you, that's equal to them calling God a liar?There is an abundance of details in those visions. Those details came from God. Are you calling God, Joel and John liars for their factual descriptions of what's to come in Rev 9:3-10?
How’s my favorite Preterist?That He take you direct to heaven before any testing or Judgment.
The rapture simply will not and cannot happen, as you and many deceived by that false teaching, believe.
Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:5-7, prove that Gods holy people are on earth during the Great Trib.
Also, there is no scripture which says the Jews will be converted before Jesus returns.
This is just a wrong opinion, not scriptural at all.
Here are verses that do apply solely to the Jews: Matthew 8:12, Matthew 21:43, Luke 19:27, Revelation 2:9
What "must soon take place"? The things written in the book. So what's in the book? 22 chapters. To emphasize that's what He means, He uses an inclusio time frame by repeating what He said in Rev 1 and makes sure that the reader understands, He emphasis that the words are faithful and true.How’s my favorite Preterist?
If you study the format of the book of Revelation, Rev 1:1 says "... the things that must soon take place." Those things are covered in Rev 1-3 (the seven letters to the seven churches).
Rev 4:1 then says, "... I will show you what must take place after this."
There you have it. Rev 1-3 are about what needed to occur then. Rev 4:1 starts the futuristic section of Rev ("what must take place after this") that continues through Rev 21.
The Bible proves you are wrong as a Preterist. The early seals have NOT yet been opened, per Rev 6:1-8.
God’s holy people are on Earth until Rev 4:1, the pre-Trib rapture of the Church, straight to Heaven. You are ignoring the millions of new converts that occur from the 4th seal through the bowl judgments. Rev 7:16 proves it! Those holy people you cite in Rev 13 are part of the new converts that occur through Rev 16. Again, Rev 7:16 proves it!
Ed, true or false? Rev 1-3 are about "what soon must take place" as the seven letters to the seven churches. And, Rev 4 begins the futuristic section of Rev. In other words, everything from Rev 4:1 forward is in the future.What "must soon take place"? The things written in the book. So what's in the book? 22 chapters. To emphasize that's what He means, He uses an inclusio time frame by repeating what He said in Rev 1 and makes sure that the reader understands, He emphasis that the words are faithful and true.
Revelation 22:
6Then the angel said to me, “These words are faithful and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent His angel to show His servants what must soon take place.” (Must is an emphatic present indicative verb)
And so that you can't possibly misunderstand Him, He uses the exclamatory word "behold" along with the present indicative verbs, He repeats it 2 more times.
7“Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.”
12“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.
As to Rev 4:1 If verse one were to be the rapture, then verse 2 tells us the rapture is spiritual.
But then again, there's the emphatic present tense "must". "... I will show you what must take place after this."
And also in
Rev 1:19 says the "things that are, and the things that are about to take place" are both present tense.
Greek Text analysis:
Rev 1:9 tells me they were in the tribulation. What takes place with regards to the seven churches are Christ's admonitions, warnings and encouragement while they're going through the tribulation. What I don't see taking place is their being taken out of the world in complete contradiction to Christ's prayer in John 17:15I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world....20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,...Ed, true or false? Rev 1-3 are about "what soon must take place" as the seven letters to the seven churches. And, Rev 4 begins the futuristic section of Rev. In other words, everything from Rev 4:1 forward is in the future.
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