Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[keras]

Daniel 8:14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and threehundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. King James Version

That did happen in 167-164 BC It is past history and the 2300 evenings and mornings was fulfilled as the Jews re-dedicated the Temple then. That day, Kislev25, is still celebrated now as Hanukkah.

As for the evidence of a gap between the 69th 'week' and the 70th, the time periods for the end times given in Daniel and Revelation, the 3 1/2 years, the 42 months and the 1260 days, which are all half of 7 years, is ample confirmation of the final seven years of this age to be the 70th 'week'.
Proved by Daniel 9:27, where that 'week' is divided into two halves.
Also, by applying a bit of common sense to this issue, something that seems to be in short supply here.

 

[DavidPT]

That did happen in 167-164 BC It is past history and the 2300 evenings and mornings was fulfilled as the Jews re-dedicated the Temple then. That day, Kislev25, is still celebrated now as Hanukkah.

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.


Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.



And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed----he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

The Prince of princes can only be meaning Christ IMO. And if so, can't see how your interpretation can work then. Notice in verse 25----And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many. That can't be after the santuary has already been cleansed. It has to be meaning before. The following is when it will be cleansed IMO---he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

That did happen in 167-164 BC It is past history and the 2300 evenings and mornings was fulfilled as the Jews re-dedicated the Temple then. That day, Kislev25, is still celebrated now as Hanukkah.

As for the evidence of a gap between the 69th 'week' and the 70th, the time periods for the end times given in Daniel and Revelation, the 3 1/2 years, the 42 months and the 1260 days, which are all half of 7 years, is ample confirmation of the final seven years of this age to be the 70th 'week'.
Proved by Daniel 9:27, where that 'week' is divided into two halves.
Also, by applying a bit of common sense to this issue, something that seems to be in short supply here.

So you use the day to year principle for some prophecy but not all?

 

[BABerean2]

Why does there have to be an antecedent for an antichrist in the text though. Let's go back to an analogy I used earlier.


One shall come and become 44th President of the United States.

The President shall be cutoff after January 20, 2017.

The people of the President that shall come will be wearing MAGA caps.


Obviously per this analogy the Presidents are not all the same person, In the former two it is obviously meaning Obama. In the latter it is obviously meaning Trump. When you are able to point out the antecedent for Trump in this analogy, I should likewise be able to point out the antecedent for an antichrist in the text in Daniel 9. And since you do have a brain, an exceptional one at that IMO, I'm pretty sure you get my point here then.

Edited: Ignore the point I thought I was making here. I thought maybe you were meaning where was the antecedent for an AC before this part-----and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


But I did revise my analogy though.

One shall come and become 44th President of the United States.

The President shall be cutoff after January 20, 2017.

The people of the President that shall come will be wearing MAGA caps.

And he shall MAGA for 7 years. In the midst of that term he shall be elected to a 2nd term.



If the latter two sentences can mean a different President than the former two sentences, then in the same way there can be two entirely two different princes in Daniel 9:25-27.

If you can force an antichrist into Daniel chapter 9, you can probably make a president fit in there as well...

Why would anyone think it has something to do with the New Covenant already promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
What book was Daniel reading from when the angel Gabriel appeared?

Can you also find a way to ignore the covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28?

.

 

[keras]

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Daniel 8 is a chronological story, 13-14 prophesies about the desecration of the Temple by Antiochus 4th Epiphanies. [A4E] That did happen.
After that, in verse 17 Daniel receives a vision for the time of the end, as prophesied in Daniel 8:19-25 This is yet to happen.

 

[keras]

So you use the day to year principle for some prophecy but not all?

How do you get that?
The 2300 is not days or years at all, they are plainly stated as evenings and mornings, when the sacrifices and offerings were made in the Temple.
Therefore the 2300 refers to 1150 days, which is the exact time between when A4E conquered Jerusalem, until the Temple was re-dedicated. As told to us in 1 Maccabees 2-4

 

[klutedavid]

Dates in the 2300 day prophecy
Posted on 10 May 2012 04:06 PM
Is there any non-Biblical evidence that Jesus was baptized in 27 AD and that Stephen was stoned in 34 AD?

I asked you to support the claim, i.e., the decree issued on 457 BC. Some how you leaped from 457 BC to the first century, to the baptism of Jesus?

Your question is an important one. Here is some evidence to consider.

Will I actually find evidence or speculation, I wonder?

The Baptism of Jesus

Although you asked for non-Biblical evidence, let us first look at the scenario in question, and then we will proceed with the historical evidence.

I did not ask, for 'non-Biblical evidence', I just asked you to support your claim of 457 BC.

Luke 3:1,21 says, "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar...Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened..."

Read the text (Luke 3) again and you will notice that the text does not say. That Jesus began his ministry in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar. Luke is declaring that John began his ministry in the fifteenth year not the ministry of Jesus.

Here we have the Biblical account of the baptism of Jesus. He was baptized in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar. Let's look now into the pages of secular history to find out when Tiberius Caesar began his reign:

This is not correct and resulted from not reading Luke's account correctly.

In the year 12 AD Tiberius Caesar was granted supreme power from Augustus Caesar (www.roman-britain.org).

This web site has no information regarding Tiberius being granted supreme power in 12 AD?

If Tiberius Caesar was granted supreme power in 12 AD, then the fifteenth year of his reign would bring us to 27 AD, which is exactly when the Bible predicted the baptism of Jesus would take place.

This is definitely incorrect, where does the Bible say Jesus would be baptized in 27 AD?

The text states that “unto 2300 days, then shall the sanctuary be cleansed”. Why does this period begin upon the 3rd declaration of rebuilding Jerusalem?

Only the third proclamation by Artaxerxes dealt with four traditional and political autonomy because it involved the total restoration of Jerusalem. The previous decrees by Cyrus and Darius, dealt specifically only with the temple. So the only date that can be used for the commencement of the prophecy is the Artaxerxes decree of 457 BC. This is also substantiated archaeologically and by the fulfillment of the Messianic prophesy (unto the Messiah) which is fulfilled to the letter in Jesus Christ as it points to 27 AD when Jesus was baptized. The prophecy only makes sense in all its components if the starting date is 457 BC.

You need to read Luke 3 again.

You need to examine the reign of Tiberius.

You need to support your claims with evidence.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

How do you get that?
The 2300 is not days or years at all, they are plainly stated as evenings and mornings, when the sacrifices and offerings were made in the Temple.
Therefore the 2300 refers to 1150 days, which is the exact time between when A4E conquered Jerusalem, until the Temple was re-dedicated. As told to us in 1 Maccabees 2-4

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Based on the Bible definition of the evening and the morning in Genesis how do you get this
"Therefore the 2300 refers to 1150 days,"

2300/2=1150 I understand but why the division?

I put no faith in the apocrypha as GOD did not see fit to include it in the Holy Bible.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

This web site has no information regarding Tiberius being granted supreme power in 12 AD

TRy this one then
http://roman-britain.co.uk/people/tiberius.htmEmperor: 14/08/19AD Tiberius Caesar Augustus. ... 12AD granted supreme power by Augustus;

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I asked you to support the claim, i.e., the decree issued on 457 BC. Some how you leaped from 457 BC to the first century, to the baptism of Jesus?

Will I actually find evidence or speculation, I wonder?

I did not ask, for 'non-Biblical evidence', I just asked you to support your claim of 457 BC.

Read the text (Luke 3) again and you will notice that the text does not say. That Jesus began his ministry in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar. Luke is declaring that John began his ministry in the fifteenth year not the ministry of Jesus.

This is not correct and resulted from not reading Luke's account correctly.

This web site has no information regarding Tiberius being granted supreme power in 12 AD?

This is definitely incorrect, where does the Bible say Jesus would be baptized in 27 AD?

You need to read Luke 3 again.

You need to examine the reign of Tiberius.

You need to support your claims with evidence.

Read and learn new information
https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-...ght-on-time--prophetic-appointments-revealed-

 

[klutedavid]

TRy this one then
http://roman-britain.co.uk/people/tiberius.htmEmperor: 14/08/19AD Tiberius Caesar Augustus. ... 12AD granted supreme power by Augustus;

I checked the link and found the following.

http://roman-britain.co.uk/roman-emperors.htm

The information mentioned in this link above.

" ii Tiberius - Tiberius Caesar Augustus (14-37) "

This does not support your claim, Tiberius was not declared to be Caesar until 14 AD.

You need to quote the information that your link is referring to, so I can read it.

 

[keras]

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Based on the Bible definition of the evening and the morning in Genesis how do you get this
"Therefore the 2300 refers to 1150 days,"

2300/2=1150 I understand but why the division?

I put no faith in the apocrypha as GOD did not see fit to include it in the Holy Bible.

And the evening and the morning were the first day. One evening + one morning = one day.
Not really hard is it?

So you chuck out the historical information of Maccabees, just because it is part of the Apocrypha? What about Josephus and every other historian? But I suppose if they don't suit your preconceived beliefs, then you have to ignore then, to your discredit.
The 2300 half days of Daniel 8, has no application to the end times that we are in now.

The question over when Tiberius became Caesar, is resolved by the known date of the death of Augustus; 19th August 14 AD.
Although Tiberius was co-regent for a few years before then, his reign really commenced then, therefore the 15 years in Luke 3:1, making the Baptism of Jesus in 29.5 AD.
Which fits exactly in the Biblical timeline of 4000 years since Adam; 3970.5 BC

 

[klutedavid]

Read and learn new information
https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-...ght-on-time--prophetic-appointments-revealed-

I asked for evidence to support the date 457 BC.
A link to a church and it's interpretation of the scripture, is not evidence supporting the selection of the date 457 BC.

 

[sparow]

The sanctuary spoken of hear is the Heavenly Sanctuary not one built by man.

Once a year the priest went into the Holy of Holy in the temple where the ark of the covenant was to cleanse the sanctuary of the sins of the people of Isreal. DAY OF ATONEMENT
Christ started his mini stry as our high priest in the HOLY of HOLIES in the sancuary at the end of the 2300 day prophecy. This is the investigative judgement oif all that have lived and are asleep or are living on this earth.

Exodus 25:9
According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

The earthly sanctuary is the plan of redemption and is a pattern of what our LORD and Savior JESUS CHRIST is fulfilling.

We all will be judged by the LAW that is contained in the ark of the covenant under the mercy seat by JESUS CHRIST, remember the pattern.

Study the sancutary.
Daniel 7:10 (KJV)
10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Leviticus 16:10
But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.

"The scapegoat, which represents Satan, in no way bears or pays for our sins. The Lord’s goat, which was sacrificed on the Day of Atonement, represented Jesus, who assumed and paid for our sins on Calvary. Jesus alone “takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29). Satan will be punished (as will all other sinners—Revelation 20:12–15) for his own sins, which will include responsibility for (1) the existence of sin, (2) his own evil actions, and (3) influencing every person on earth to sin. God will clearly hold him accountable for evil. This is what the symbolism of the transfer of sin to the scapegoat (Satan) on the Day of Atonement was meant to convey."
https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4996/t/case-closed

It is your time frame I disagree with. I observe all the different Ideas with amazement; I am not able to put it all together into a neat package but I haven't seen anyone else do it either. I dispute the 2300 year prophesy; I do not see any major harm in it other than it may displace something that would be useful.

After the sacrifice Jesus performs all the High Priest duties once; the final duty is cleansing the sanctuary; and the performing of all of these duties is called the "day of the Lord", the day of God's vengeance, that great and terrible day of the Lord, which the book of Revelation describes.

The gap that I presume we are discussing is the futurism gap between week 69 and week 70, a gap that is so far 2018 years long. What futurism was intended to do was place the Papacy outside the timeframe of the beasts of Revelation but what it does is deny Christ confirming the covenant and this allows the abrogation of the law and the setting up of a fictional, nondescript new covenant. In reality the Sabbath is still the Sabbath, the covenant is still the covenant and the Law is still the Law.

There is a gap between from when Christ was cut of until He returns, yet when He returns He carries on as though the gap never happened, the people who were alive when He left are alive when He returns.

 

[A71]

He was co-regent from 12AD, until 14AD
This is disputed by some, but a nusmismatist told me he has
Coins from 12AD with Tiberius on

I checked the link and found the following.

http://roman-britain.co.uk/roman-emperors.htm

The information mentioned in this link above.

" ii Tiberius - Tiberius Caesar Augustus (14-37) "

This does not support your claim, Tiberius was not declared to be Caesar until 14 AD.

You need to quote the information that your link is referring to, so I can read it.

 

[A71]

The morning and evening sacrifice

Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Based on the Bible definition of the evening and the morning in Genesis how do you get this
"Therefore the 2300 refers to 1150 days,"

2300/2=1150 I understand but why the division?

I put no faith in the apocrypha as GOD did not see fit to include it in the Holy Bible.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I checked the link and found the following.

http://roman-britain.co.uk/roman-emperors.htm

The information mentioned in this link above.

" ii Tiberius - Tiberius Caesar Augustus (14-37) "

This does not support your claim, Tiberius was not declared to be Caesar until 14 AD.

You need to quote the information that your link is referring to, so I can read it.

My error wrong site pasted try this one
http://roman-britain.co.uk/people/tiberius.htm
TIBERIUS
Born: BC42/11/16 Tiberius Claudius Nero on the Palatine Hill
Father: Tiberius Claudius Nero, fought against Augustus in civil war in BC40
Mother: Livia Drusilla (later Julia Augusta).
Emperor: 14/08/19AD Tiberius Caesar Augustus.
Died: 37/03/16AD smothered by Macro in his bed at or near Micenum.
History:

• BC25 military tribune in Cantabria
• BC23 quaestor
• BC20 won back standards of Crassus in Parthian campaign
• BC16 governor of Gaul
• BC16 married wife1: Vipsania Agrippina, daughter of Agrippa
• BC? son born: Tiberius Drusus Caesar
• BC13 consul I
• BC11 married wife2: Julia, daughter of Augustus
• BC9 imperator I
• BC8 imperator II
• BC7 consul II
• BC6/06/26 Tribunicia Potestas granted for 5 years
• BC6 retires to Rhodes
• BC2 Julia divorced, banished to Pandateria
• 2AD Aug. allowed back to Rome as privatus
• 4/06/26AD Tribunicia Potestas (renewed annually from this date)
• 4/06/27AD adopted by Augustus, became Tiberius Iulius Caesar
• 4AD adopts his brother Drusus' eldest son: Claudius Germanicus Caesar
• 6AD imperator III
• 8AD imperator IV
• 9AD imperator V
• 11AD imperator VI
• 12AD granted supreme power by Augustus

 

[Original Happy Camper]

I asked for evidence to support the date 457 BC.
A link to a church and it's interpretation of the scripture, is not evidence supporting the selection of the date 457 BC.

Prophecy is History in advance
History is fulfillment of prophecy
If you read the whole article it supports the 457 bc date

 

[Original Happy Camper]

It is your time frame I disagree with. I observe all the different Ideas with amazement; I am not able to put it all together into a neat package but I haven't seen anyone else do it either. I dispute the 2300 year prophesy; I do not see any major harm in it other than it may displace something that would be useful.

After the sacrifice Jesus performs all the High Priest duties once; the final duty is cleansing the sanctuary; and the performing of all of these duties is called the "day of the Lord", the day of God's vengeance, that great and terrible day of the Lord, which the book of Revelation describes.

The gap that I presume we are discussing is the futurism gap between week 69 and week 70, a gap that is so far 2018 years long. What futurism was intended to do was place the Papacy outside the timeframe of the beasts of Revelation but what it does is deny Christ confirming the covenant and this allows the abrogation of the law and the setting up of a fictional, nondescript new covenant. In reality the Sabbath is still the Sabbath, the covenant is still the covenant and the Law is still the Law.

There is a gap between from when Christ was cut of until He returns, yet when He returns He carries on as though the gap never happened, the people who were alive when He left are alive when He returns.

Here is a neat package

 

[BABerean2]

In reality the Sabbath is still the Sabbath, the covenant is still the covenant and the Law is still the Law.

Was Paul confused when he revealed the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant in Galatians 3:16-29, when he said the law was "added" 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made?

Do you think Paul was confused when he compelled the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" in Galatians 4:24-31?

Was Paul confused in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, when he contrasted the "ministry of death written on stones" to the ministry of the Spirit?

Was the author of the Book of Hebrews confused in Hebrews 7:12, when he said there was a change in the law?

Did the New Covenant really make the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13?

Is there really a contrast between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in Hebrews 12:18-24, or are we really still come to the mountain that burns with fire?

What is the difference between what you are saying and what the Judaisers said in Acts chapter 15?

Does the following command us to keep a Sabbath day?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Are there two separate sets of commandments in the words of Christ below, or are there only one?
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.


Below we find that we are under a higher standard, not for our salvation, but for our conduct.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

.