Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Christian Gedge · Oct 6, 2019

DavidPT said:
The way some interpret verse 26, thus having some of that fulfilled around 70 AD, that alone does not fit a calendar of years without any gaps. Verse 26 obviously has to have some relevance to the 70 weeks, but how can it if some of it is meaning a time post these 70 weeks, that according to the way some are interpreting some of verse 26?

Yes, that is what is was referring to before. Some Preterists put a gap between the crucifixion and AD 70. In so doing they are being hypocritical for condemning futurists such as yourself for placing a 2000 year gap.

My position is clear and simple. The 70 weeks finished 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. So my question again to LittleLamb: what is the most common explanation from the preterist camp? Do most of them place the end of the weeks in AD 70?

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 7, 2019

Christian Gedge said:
Yes, that is what is was referring to before. Some Preterists put a gap between the crucifixion and AD 70. In so doing they are being hypocritical for condemning futurists such as yourself for placing a 2000 year gap.

My position is clear and simple. The 70 weeks finished 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. So my question again to LittleLamb: what is the most common explanation from the preterist camp? Do most of them place the end of the weeks in AD 70?

Hello C G.

Do you and/or others believe Matt 24:6, Mar 13:7 and Luke 21:9 are talking about the Jewish Wars?

"Ye will hear of battles and rumors of battles" 1st century concluding in Judea/Jerusalem 70ad

Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of battles and commotions/tumults, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first, but the end is not immediate.”
10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem ; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70
==========================

I see you already started a thread on that.

The Preterist Gap

Christian Gedge said:
I’ve been somewhat surprised to learn that some Preterists finish Daniels 70th week in AD 70. They postulate a 40 year gap between the “cutting off of Messiah in the midst of the week” and the destruction of the temple in AD 70. We might expect this kind of theory from full Preterists, but it comes from part-Preterists as well.

However, in so doing Preterists are being hypocritical when condemning Futurists for doing exactly the same thing by inserting a 2000 year gap. The only difference is length – but a gap nonetheless.

The proper explanation is simple. The 70 weeks finished 3 1/2 years after the crucifixion. Can someone explain why they believe the 70th week ends in AD 70? I suspect it is to do with verse 26 of Dan. 9. But there is a better way of interpreting that verse.

Crosstian · Oct 7, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
It looks like the 70 weeks of Daniel is a popular topic in Christianity today, so I thought I would create one and include a poll. I also am interested in discussing this. ...

All (every single one of the) time prophecies in scripture are indeed 'contiguous', and not a single one not so.

[1] Genesis prophecy (Genesis 1-2; Isaiah 46:9-10; Matthew 13:35) of six days and the 7th of rest - being "a day with the LORD is as a thousand years" (2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4), and 1000 years as a watch in the night (4 watches at night, leading into day, Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness, after 4,000 years of the darkness of sin, He came to deliver from sin), thus 6,000 years and the 7,000th (final 1,000) of earth's battle with sin is over (Revelation 20:1-7) - see TinyUpload.com - best file hosting solution, with no limits, totaly free

There are numerous typological aspects as well of this.

[2] Noah's prophecy of "an hundred and twenty years" years for the flood, coming at the death of Methuselah, unto the very "day" - 120 years (Genesis 6:3, 7:11,13)

[3] Joseph's "seven years of great plenty" (Genesis 41:29) and "seven years of famine" (Genesis 41:27) - which were 14 years together back to back, consecutive (Genesis 41:17-36,47,53-54)

[4] Moses' prophecy of wandering the desert in relation to spying the land of Canaan - 40 days = 40 years; (Numbers 14:34)

[5] David's prophecy of "three days" of pestilence - 3 days exactly (2 Samuel 24:13-25; 1 Chronicles 21:12-30)

[6] Isaiah's prophecy unto Hezekiah "add unto thy days fifteen years" - and Hezekiah died after that time of exactly 15 years (2 Kings 20:6,21)

[7] Isaiah's prophecy unto Moab, "three years" - fulfilled (Isaiah 16:14)

[8] Isaiah's prophecy unto Kedar "within a year" - fulfilled (Isaiah 21:16)

[9] Isaiah's prophecy unto Tyre - 70 years; (Isaiah 23:15,17).

[10] Jeremiah's prophecy of the captivity - 70 years; (2 Chronicles 36:21; Jeremiah 25:11,12, 29:10; Daniel 9:2)

[11] Jeremiah's prophecy of the death of Hananiah "this year" - fulfilled (Jeremiah 28:16-17)

[12] Ezekiel's prophecy of the sins of Israel and Judah in the siege [Israel] "three hundred ninety days", and [Judah] "forty days" - 390 days = 390 years, and 40 days = 40 years, for a grand total of 430 days = 430 years (Ezekiel 4:4-8)

[13] Daniel's prophecy of "a time and times and the dividing of time" (Daniel 7:25), "a time, times, and an half" (Daniel 12:7) which combined with Revelation's prophecy of "forty and two months" (Revelation 11:2), "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" (Revelation 11:3), "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" (Revelation 12:6), "a time, and times, and half a time" (Revelation 12:14), "forty and two months" (Revelation 13:5), also known as "the times of the Gentiles" (Luke 21:24), "the Gentiles" (Revelation 11:2) - which are all the same timeframe of 1,260 years, which is a subsection of 2,300 of Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7.

[14] Daniel's prophecy of the "two thousand and three hundred days" - 2,300 years encompassing the whole of the time from the start in the Persian-Median Kingdom, through Grecia, into Roman Kingdom, and it's divisions, the uprising of the little horn to power, its deadly wound, and the entering in of Christ Jesus into the Most Holy Place with the Father and the opening of the books in Heaven - Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7.

[15] Daniel's prophecy of the "seventy weeks" (Daniel 9:24) which is subdivided into "seven weeks" (Daniel 9:25a) and "threescore" (Daniel 9:25b) "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:25c), of which the final "one week" (70th; Daniel 9:27) is again subdivided into two parts, "in the midst of the week" (Daniel 9:27), being exactly 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 days of the final week - 490 years, being subdivided into 49 years, 434 years = 483 years with 7 years left, half of the 7 final years being fulfilled and confirmed by Jesus from Baptism (Messiah the Prince) unto Crucifixion ("cut off"), which is 3 1/2 years from AD 27 to AD 31 ("causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease", which was "after threescore" "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:26), which has no 'gaps'), and the final portion of the final week, being confirmed by the apostles/disciples in Jesus' stead (John 20:21; Hebrews 2:3, etc) unto the toning of Stephen, in AD 34. This 70 weeks is merely a portion ("determined" (Daniel 9:24), for Jesus is the "certain" saint (the wonderful numberer; Daniel 8:13, which sections, "determines" (Acts 17:26) the times unto man from the greater time (Genesis) allotted) see also Daniel 8:1,15,16,17,19, 27, 9:21,22, "vision", "understand", "Gabriel", "at the first", etc) of the greater time prophecy of 2,300 (Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7).

[16] Daniel's prophecy of the "a thousand two hundred and ninety days" - being 1,290 years, ending the same time as the 1,260 (Daniel 12:11)

[17] Daniel's prophecy of "the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" - being 1,335 years, beginning the same time as the 1,290, and ending the same time as the 2,300 (Daniel 12:11; Revelation 14:13, "blessed")

[18] Jonah's "forty days" - Ninevah was given this exact time to repent or perish (Jonah 3:4)

[19] Jesus' prophecy of "three days" - in three days Jesus was resurrected (Matthew 16:21; Luke 18:33, 24:7,21; John 2:19-20, etc), no 'gaps' (inspite of all those erroneous Wednesday/Thursday crucifictionists convoluted ideas)

[20] Jesus' prophecy of his final days of ministry, "I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected (finished, completed)" and "to day, and to morrow, and the day following" - which refers to his last 3 days of workings of miracles among the people before being taken captive - (Luke 13:32-33).

[21] Jesus prophecy of "this generation" - within 40 years exactly Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed (Matthew 23:36; Luke 11:50,51)

[22] Revelation's prophecy of the "ten days" - 10 years (Revelation 2:10)

[23] Revelation's prophecy of the "five months", "those days" - Pentecost to Trumpets (Revelation 9:5,6,10; (type) Luke 1:24; (type) Genesis 7:24, 8:3; Leviticus 23:15-25)

[24] Revelation's prophecy of the "an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year" - the exact date of the day of Atonement, with the golden Altar in the Most Holy Place; (Revelation 9:13-15)

[25] Revelation's prophecy of the "three days and a half" - 3 1/2 years (Revelation 11:9,11)

[26] Revelation's prophecy of the "thousand years" (Revelation 20:1,2,3,4,5,6,7) - is literally a thousand years (Daniel 7:22; Isaiah 24:22; as it is the final "day" of the cosmic Week, foretold in Genesis; 2 Peter 3:8; Psalms 90:4; Isaiah 46:9-10; Matthew 13:35, etc)

Also those time prophecies, even when divided into smaller portions, are always 'contiguous':

[1] Joseph's "seven years of great plenty" (Genesis 41:29) and "seven years of famine" (Genesis 41:27) - which were 14 years together back to back, consecutive with no 'gaps' (Genesis 41:17-36,47,53-54)

[2] Jeremiah's prophecy of captivity (2 Chronicles 36:21), in which it says "threescore and ten" years. There is no 'gap' between the "threescore" and the "ten" years.

[3] Ezekiel's prophecy of the sins of Israel and Judah, though given in two portions, [Israel] 390 & [Judah] 40, are a total of 430 years. There is no 'gap' between the "three hundred and ninety" and "forty" years.

[4] Daniel's prophecy of the "seventy weeks" (Daniel 9:24) which is subdivided into "seven weeks" (Daniel 9:25a) and "threescore" (Daniel 9:25b) "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:25c) (which has no 'gaps' between "threescore" and "two"), of which the final "one week" (70th; Daniel 9:27) is again subdivided into two parts, "in the midst of the week" (Daniel 9:27), being exactly 3 1/2 and 3 1/2 days of the final week - 490 years, being subdivided into 49 years, 434 years = 483 years with 7 years left, half of the 7 final years being fulfilled and confirmed by Jesus from Baptism (Messiah the Prince) unto Crucifixion ("cut off"), which is 3 1/2 years from AD 27 to AD 31 ("causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease", which was "after threescore" "and two weeks" (Daniel 9:26), which has no 'gaps'), and the final portion of the final week, being confirmed by the apostles/disciples in Jesus' stead (John 20:21; Hebrews 2:3, etc) unto the toning of Stephen, in AD 34. This 70 weeks is merely a portion ("determined" (Daniel 9:24), for Jesus is the "certain" saint (the wonderful numberer; Daniel 8:13, which sections, "determines" (Acts 17:26) the times unto man from the greater time (Genesis) allotted) see also Daniel 8:1,15,16,17,19, 27, 9:21,22, "vision", "understand", "Gabriel", "at the first", etc) of the greater time prophecy of 2,300 (Daniel 8:13,14,26; Revelation 9:15, 10:6, 14:6-7). And for those which erroneously teach that the 7 final years (of the 70 weeks) take place at the end of time ('separated' from the first 69 weeks by over 2 millennia (2,000 years)), they generally accept 'no gaps', even though the final week of the 70 weeks is divided into two, with "in the midst of the week".

They are inconsistent across the board in Daniel 9.

[bonus] Even the "years" foretold in the days of Elijah, was exactly 3 years and six months, which went from the two times of rains, early (3 years) and latter (6 months): 1 Kings 17:1 "these years"; 1 Kings 18;1, "third year"; Luke 4:25 "three years and six months"; James 5:17 "space of three years and six months".

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 7, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
It looks like the 70 weeks of Daniel is a popular topic in Christianity today, so I thought I would create one and include a poll. I also am interested in discussing this. ..

Crosstian said:
All (every single one of the) time prophecies in scripture are indeed 'contiguous', and not a single one not so.
[bonus] Even the "years" foretold in the days of Elijah, was exactly 3 years and six months, which went from the two times of rains, early (3 years) and latter (6 months): 1 Kings 17:1 "these years"; 1 Kings 18;1, "third year"; Luke 4:25 "three years and six months"; James 5:17 "space of three years and six months".

Great post and thks for bringing up my bro Elijah.

1Ki 17:1
Now Elijah the Tishbite, from Tishbe[fn] in Gilead, said to Ahab,
“As the LORD, the God of Israel, lives, whom I serve, there will be neither dew nor rain in the next few years except at my word.”

Mal 4:5
“See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the LORD comes.
=======================================
The coming of John the Baptist

Luk 1:17
And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the parents to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
============================
Reminds me of this event when Jesus 1st preached the Good News to this synagogue of the Jews and as soon as He mentioned Elijah, they attempted to throw him off a cliff.
[Please view my Isaiah 61 and Luke 4 thread.]

"DAYS OF VENGEANCE" Isaiah 61:2 and Luke 21:22 Revelation

Luke 4:
26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon.
28 All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this.
They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff.
=====================
Luk 9:54
And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said,
“Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”

Act 1:8
“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you;
and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
===============================
Jas 5:17
Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.

Rev 11:6
They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying;[Luke 1:17 Acts 1:8 "spirit power of Elijah"]
and they have power to turn the waters into blood [spirit power of Moses and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
================
A fairly good 5 part vid series on Elijah:

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 20, 2019

I brought these quotes over from another thread since they are relevant to the topic of this thread

Did we miss our turn somewhere?

Woke said: ↑
You are correct, the great tribulation does not happen to destroy all people. If God wanted to do that during it Christ would just do it, and do it quickly. There would be no reason for any separating of people once Christ returns after it. Revelation 3:10 calls the great tribulation a trial or test. It happens to test the beliefs of people who have not fully accepted God, to see if they will still stubbornly refuse God. Revelation claims a great crowd will come out after having passed that trial. Not just Jews will turn to God. So will some Christians who are not accepted by Christ as his church before it starts.

As you stated it makes the most sense that God does not turn his attention again to the nation of Israel until the Great Tribulation starts. The reason is that scriptures claim he does not do that UNTIL the last gentile member is grafted into the church. And millions of gentiles are being born all the time before it starts. God will not stop them from turning to Christ in order turn his attention to Israel.

nolidad said:
YOu have some mistakes in your reasoning's.

1. God promised the church is not destined for wrath but to obtain delverance. Wrath (when not modified) always refers to the 70th week of Daniel or the great Trib as is commonly called. All who are in Christ will be caught up! There is no hint of others being left behind at all!

2. The two witnesses are two people, Just a reading of the passages, even assuming the most symbolic thought, clearly shows them to be two entities. They are killed, the world parties at their death. and after 3 1/2 days they are resurrected and caught up to heaven! Other than a predisposed prejudice, there is no reason to think it is anything other than two people. Who is what is unklnown now!

jgr said: ↑
Rapture Wimpism
Any student of Scripture with even a cursory knowledge of the NT Church knows that tribulation in the form of persecution, suffering, and death has been the lot of the Church ever since its birth. From its persecution at the hands of the Jews, to that under the Roman emperors and empires, to that today under Islam and other ideologies; the Church's experience with tribulation has been unrelenting, and its death toll over the millennia is counted in the tens of millions.

In the NT, we see in the book of Acts a complete account of how the disciples and Christ's followers were hated and persecuted as Jesus had predicted (Matthew 24:9). In Acts 4: "And they laid hands on them [Peter and John], and put them in prison" (verse 3). In Acts 5, they were "beaten" (verse 40). As they departed from the "council", they rejoiced "that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name"(verse 41). In Acts 7, Stephen was killed for his stand (verses 54-60). In Acts 8:1 "There was a great persecution against the church." In Acts 16, Paul and Silas were beaten and cast into prison. In Acts 21, persecution resulted in Paul being beaten, and brought before rulers, before whom he testified (Acts 22). In Acts 22:19 we read that Paul confessed that prior to his conversion, he had "imprisoned and beaten in every synagogue" those who believed in Christ.

There was, and is, no lack of tribulation for the NT Church.

But deplorably, we see today a generation of what can best be described as “rapture wimps.” This generation of North American believers, the most “molycoddled and milquetoast” in the history of the Christian Church, seems in large part to believe that it is also entitled to escape the trials and privations which have beset the historic Church, and to be “...carried to the skies on flowery beds of ease” as the beloved hymn “Am I a Soldier of the Cross” describes.

The following partial enumeration of NT tribulation references...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

...makes it clear that there is no room for rapture wimps in the Christian Church. In solidarity with other believers in parts of the world who suffer tribulation even as we read this, we must be prepared to, as did and do these, “fight to win the prize and sail through bloody seas”, as we see the hymnwriter further pen.

God has promised...:

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

...that we can be triumphant in Him even in the midst of tribulation. He promises us all of His grace and resources to make this a reality.

But the promise is only for those who refuse to be rapture wimps.

nolidad said:
And I teach all my students and fellow church members that if we live Godly we shall suffer persecution and tribulation. But I am not talking about general suffering for the name of the Lord- but the consequences fo the 70th week of Daniel which Revelation calls the wrath of the Lamb and the Day of His wrath and multiple places in the OT calls it the Day of wrath! I am talking that specific 7 year peiod which encompasses the trumpets and vials and the genocide of the anitchrist! Not general suffering for the name of Jesus!

jgr said: ↑
In the midst of the 70th week of Daniel, Christ upon the cross took the wrath which should have fallen upon us.

Isaiah 53
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

Then instead of wrath He bought and brought salvation.
1 Thessalonians 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
It was at Calvary, in the midst of the 70th week of Daniel, that Christ assuaged God's wrath.

nolidad said:
And I agree with all that But 1 Thess. 5 is not the lake of fire but the 70th week of Daniel!

REV. 6:
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Joel 2:1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
oel 2:11
And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
Joel 2:31
The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

As the context is the Day of the Lord and not eternity that is moot!

jgr said: ↑
The 70th week of Daniel is all about Messiah.

nolidad said:
No it is not and you should know that!

jgr said: ↑ Daniel didn't know that either.
His 70th week is all about Messiah, the Christ.
Not some mythical dispensational antichrist.

nolidad said:
Wrong agai but you will find out in time!Once you learn basic grammar you will learn different.Once you recognize that preterism, covenant theology and allegory has butchered the Scripturtes you will figure it out! Once again according to the preachers you and your allies quote here!
1. The 70 weeks of Daniel run continuous with no breaks!
2. So after 69 weeks (483 years) Messiah is cut off (killed).
3. That puts Jesus death at the beginning of the 70th week which according to your preachers is the time He was Baptized. Unless of courser you think that 69 1/2 weeks =after 69 weeks. or 486 1/2 yeaqrs is close enough.

6 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Click to expand...

5. You make Jesus the prince of Rome! For they are the people that will come and destroy the sanctuary!

6. Then in verse 27 you violate all rules of grammar to make Jesus the one who confirms the covenant with many! IOW you change the Bible to fit your doctrine instead of changing your doctrine to fit the Bible

7. You violate normal grammar again by making the sacrifice and oblation ending to mean that Jesus death which ended the efficacy of the sacrifices to mean the actual ceasing of the sacrifical system which is what is written!

8. Then you accuse Jesus of making the temple desolate so that idols and detestable things can fill the temple to the wings of the temple!

Sorry, but I will accept the Bible as written and not rewritten to fit someones ideas.

Is there a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9"
Edit

No
28 vote(s)
49.1%
Yes
27 vote(s)
47.4%
I don't know
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Other
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Fully fulfilled
2 vote(s)
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Half complete Half Future
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All Future
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jgr · Oct 20, 2019

nolidad said:
Once you learn basic grammar you will learn different.

There is no approved grammar textbook in existence on this planet which would validate dispensationalism's grammatical deformation of this passage.

nolidad said:
3. That puts Jesus death at the beginning of the 70th week which according to your preachers is the time He was Baptized. Unless of courser you think that 69 1/2 weeks =after 69 weeks. or 486 1/2 yeaqrs is close enough.

It places Jesus' death after the 69th week. Note the word "after" in verse 26. That does not necessitate the beginning of the 70th week. The middle of the 70th week also qualifies as "after" the 69th.

nolidad said:
5. You make Jesus the prince of Rome! For they are the people that will come and destroy the sanctuary!

Revelation 1
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Do you think that Jesus forgot to place Rome under His jurisdiction?

nolidad said:
6. Then in verse 27 you violate all rules of grammar to make Jesus the one who confirms the covenant with many! IOW you change the Bible to fit your doctrine instead of changing your doctrine to fit the Bible

The unquestioned grammatical antecedent of "He" in verse 27 is "prince" in verse 26, whose unquestioned grammatical antecedent in turn is the only identified prince in the passage, "Messiah the Prince" in verse 25.

nolidad said:
7. You violate normal grammar again by making the sacrifice and oblation ending to mean that Jesus death which ended the efficacy of the sacrifices to mean the actual ceasing of the sacrifical system which is what is written!

Daniel 9:27 Hebrew:

7673 [e]
yaš·bîṯ
יַשְׁבִּ֣ית ׀
He shall bring an end to
V‑Hifil‑Imperf‑3ms

"He shall bring an end to" allows for physical fulfillment any time within the ensuing time interval.

The causation at the beginning of the interval was followed by the cessation at the end of the interval.

The causation occurred in 30 AD with Christ's Sacrifice at Calvary.

The cessation occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple.

At which time, He did physically "bring an end to" the sacrifice and oblation.

But they had already ended at Calvary.

Michael Blume:
"The Jews may have continued to offer what they called "sacrifices" to God after Christ died, but in God’s eyes they were not even sacrifices at all, but acts of unbelief and rejection of the Messiah! And in His eyes, and all the eyes of the believers who knew Christ, sacrifices ceased to be offered."

nolidad said:
8. Then you accuse Jesus of making the temple desolate so that idols and detestable things can fill the temple to the wings of the temple!

The Roman armies desolated the temple. Under Whose Supreme command and control were they operating?

The temple was destroyed. There was nothing for "idols and detestable things", or any other things, to fill.

Now, toss that grammar textbook that you've been using, into the round file.

nolidad · Oct 21, 2019

jgr said:
There is no approved grammar textbook in existence on this planet which would validate dispensationalism's grammatical deformation of this passage.

It places Jesus' death after the 69th week. Note the word "after" in verse 26. That does not necessitate the beginning of the 70th week. The middle of the 70th week also qualifies as "after" the 69th.

Revelation 1
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Do you think that Jesus forgot to place Rome under His jurisdiction?

The unquestioned grammatical antecedent of "He" in verse 27 is "prince" in verse 26, whose unquestioned grammatical antecedent in turn is the only identified prince in the passage, "Messiah the Prince" in verse 25.

Daniel 9:27 Hebrew:

7673 [e]
yaš·bîṯ
יַשְׁבִּ֣ית ׀
He shall bring an end to
V‑Hifil‑Imperf‑3ms

"He shall bring an end to" allows for physical fulfillment any time within the ensuing time interval.

The causation at the beginning of the interval was followed by the cessation at the end of the interval.

The causation occurred in 30 AD with Christ's Sacrifice at Calvary.

YOur reasonings about the antecedants is all wrong! only third and second person pronouns must refer back to an antecedant. The Prince is defined ad a Roman Prince!

The cessation occurred in 70 AD with the destruction of the temple.

At which time, He did physically "bring an end to" the sacrifice and oblation.

But they had already ended at Calvary.

Michael Blume:
"The Jews may have continued to offer what they called "sacrifices" to God after Christ died, but in God’s eyes they were not even sacrifices at all, but acts of unbelief and rejection of the Messiah! And in His eyes, and all the eyes of the believers who knew Christ, sacrifices ceased to be offered."

The Roman armies desolated the temple. Under Whose Supreme command and control were they operating?

The temple was destroyed. There was nothing for "idols and detestable things", or any other things, to fill.

Now, toss that grammar textbook that you've been using, into the round file.

Well, there is no grammar book that proves the 70 weeks are continous either. it just simply says that 70 weeks are determined fo rhis people. and after 69 weeks the Messiah would be killed! That we can know with absolute certainty are continuous.

As for your after 69 weeks- once again straining at gnats to swallow camels! Once again if you let Scripture define itself you would not be so vulnerable to these deceptive teachings! Achar is not used in a sense of around or some time after but simply after as a progression in time! Don't believe me? Good! then be a barean and look it up and see how Achar is used!

their generations.
Gen 17:10

This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; H310 Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:19

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. H310
Gen 18:5

And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that H310 ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
Gen 18:12

Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After H310 I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
Gen 18:19

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, H310 and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Gen 19:6

And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, H310

Gen 10:32

These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after H310 the flood.
Gen 11:10

These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after H310 the flood:
Gen 11:11

And Shem lived after H310 he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:13

And Arphaxad lived after H310 he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:15

And Salah lived after H310 he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:17

And Eber lived after H310 he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:19

And Peleg lived after H310 he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:21

And Reu lived after H310 he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:23

And Serug lived after H310 he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:25

And Nahor lived after H310 he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.

So now you have these folks living an extra amount of time starting some time afterwards? C'monj man get serious!

As for your reasonings about shabath (cause to cease) your error is that while it simply means at some point it can end- this passage says in the middle of the 70th week! The sacrficies and oblations are ended! They ended in 70AD! Their efficacy concluded once Jesus rose from the dead- but their cessation did not occur till 70AD. But this 70th week is future!

As for your reasonongs on antecedants- you are wrong again. Only 2nd and 3rd person personal pronouns go back to their nearest antecedant. Not a noun like prince! Th eprince of the people does notr refer back to Messiah the Prince- that is not the rule sorry!

So now you have Jesus as teh commander of the Roman Legions that destroyed Jerusalem.

So He is also the commander of the Nazi Armies
The Russian armies that killed millions of Russiand and Christians
The commander of the chinese armies who crucified 2 million Christians in the 50's.

You seem to forget that Satan is still the God of this world and there is evil still running around free creating death and horror on this planet. Unless you buy into that preterist hypothesis that Jesus Kingdom is now reigning on earth and th ebillions who have died from cruelty and sin and war are things Jesus implicitly approves of while He is reigning over this earth! (So much for His promise to rule with a rod of iron!)

If we are to believe preterist doctrine- His rod of iron is more like marshmallow!

jgr · Oct 21, 2019

nolidad said:
As for your after 69 weeks- once again straining at gnats to swallow camels! Once again if you let Scripture define itself you would not be so vulnerable to these deceptive teachings! Achar is not used in a sense of around or some time after but simply after as a progression in time! Don't believe me? Good! then be a barean and look it up and see how Achar is used!

their generations.
Gen 17:10

This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; H310 Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:19

And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. H310
Gen 18:5

And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that H310 ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
Gen 18:12

Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After H310 I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
Gen 18:19

For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, H310 and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
Gen 19:6

And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, H310

Gen 10:32

These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after H310 the flood.
Gen 11:10

These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after H310 the flood:
Gen 11:11

And Shem lived after H310 he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:13

And Arphaxad lived after H310 he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:15

And Salah lived after H310 he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:17

And Eber lived after H310 he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:19

And Peleg lived after H310 he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:21

And Reu lived after H310 he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:23

And Serug lived after H310 he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.
Gen 11:25

And Nahor lived after H310 he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.

Strong's Concordance
achar: the hind or following part
Original Word: אַחַר
Part of Speech: Adverb; Preposition; Conjunction; substantive; Adjective
Transliteration: achar
Phonetic Spelling: (akh-ar')
Definition: the hind or following part

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from achar
Definition
the hind or following part

NASB Translation
according (1), after (363), after* (6), afterward (30), afterward* (18), afterwards (3), afterwards* (5), again (4), away (1), back (2), behind (49), behind* (9), besides (1), butt end (1), care (1), follow (11), follow* (16), followed (16), followed* (24), following (35), following and followed (1), following* (5), follows* (3), forsaking* (1), later (1), long* (1), pursuing (4), rear (3), since (3), since* (4), subsequent (2), succeeded (1), survived* (2), then (1), thereafter* (1), west (2), west side (1), when* (1).

Daniel 9:26
26 And after threescore and two weeks...
is equivalent to:
26 And following threescore and two weeks...
per the above definitions.

Thanks for your Scripture references. The majority of them are consistent with "achar" meaning "following".

nolidad said:
As for your reasonings about shabath (cause to cease) your error is that while it simply means at some point it can end- this passage says in the middle of the 70th week! The sacrficies and oblations are ended! They ended in 70AD!
Their efficacy concluded once Jesus rose from the dead- but their cessation did not occur till 70AD.

After Christ arose, they could by no definition be considered sacrifices, but rather nothing more than blatant acts of contempt, defiance, and rebellion against the final, complete, perfect Sacrifice of the Lamb of God.

nolidad said:
But this 70th week is future!

Not according to Daniel.

Only to modernist dispensational futurism.

nolidad said:
As for your reasonongs on antecedants- you are wrong again. Only 2nd and 3rd person personal pronouns go back to their nearest antecedant. Not a noun like prince! Th eprince of the people does notr refer back to Messiah the Prince- that is not the rule sorry!

From Dr. Andrew Carnie's acclaimed Syntax: A Generative Introduction :
"Antecedent: An NP that gives its meaning to another NP."
An NP is a Noun Phrase, encompassing nouns, pronouns, and their phrasal equivalents.
Thus a Noun Phrase can be the antecedent of a following Noun.
Thus the Noun Phrase "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25 is the antecedent of the following Noun "prince" in Daniel 9:26.

Have you tossed your grammar textbook yet?
Better do so quickly before it misleads you further.

nolidad said:
So now you have Jesus as teh commander of the Roman Legions that destroyed Jerusalem.

So He is also the commander of the Nazi Armies
The Russian armies that killed millions of Russiand and Christians
The commander of the chinese armies who crucified 2 million Christians in the 50's.

Are those Nazi armies found in Scripture?
Are those Russian armies found in Scripture?
Are those Chinese armies found in Scripture?

Please try to stay on topic.

Additionally, good grammar and good spelling are inextricably associated.

Please try to do better.

sparow · Oct 29, 2019

DavidPT said:
Per that translation, as to verse 27, it makes it clear that the 'he' who causeth the sacrifice and present to cease, is the same one who by the wing of abominations is making desolate. If that translation doesn't prove a gap, what does it prove? Does it prove the he meant in that verse is meaning Christ? I don't see how since the part about by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, couldn't possibly fit Christ.

What one starts wit determines what one finishes up with: There is a gap but there has been made a choice; there is the gap between the first and second coming (historicism); or as some would irrationally hope, there is a gap between week 69 and week 70, a gap of around 300 weeks (futurism).

Last there is the person with a proverbial open mind who has never heard of futurism, preterism or historism, as it was pre- council of Trent.

For me I am a historist, so the gap is between Christ being cut off and when Christ returns. And that gap is around three hundred weeks.

The key to Christ's return is the abomination of desolation, the type of which happened about 150 or 200 years before Christ came the first time; where a pig was slaughtered in the Holy place.

Matthew 24:14-16 (NKJV)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

This is a sign of Christ's second coming. When Christ returns the situation on earth will be the same as when He left; abominations will be the order of the day; and we are already seeing them.

BABerean2 · Oct 29, 2019

sparow said:
Matthew 24:14-16 (NKJV)
14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

This is a sign of Christ's second coming. When Christ returns the situation on earth will be the same as when He left; abominations will be the order of the day; and we are already seeing them.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Joh 10:22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

The Jews of Jesus time celebrated Hanukkah every year. (Let the reader understand.)
They knew well that not only did Antiochus Epiphanes desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews, and stopped the temple sacrifices. Much of this would also occur during 70 AD.

Luke's parallel Gospel was written to a more Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.

.

sparow · Oct 29, 2019

BABerean2 said:
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

Joh 10:22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter.

The Jews of Jesus time celebrated Hanukkah every year. (Let the reader understand.)
They knew well that not only did Antiochus Epiphanes desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews, and stopped the temple sacrifices. Much of this would also occur during 70 AD.

Luke's parallel Gospel was written to a more Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.

.

It is interesting that Revelation was written 15 years after the destruction of the temple and there is no mention of the temple being rebuilt but the temple mount is to be flattened.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 29, 2019

BABerean2 said: ↑
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.

sparow said:
It is interesting that Revelation was written 15 years after the destruction of the temple and there is no mention of the temple being rebuilt but the temple mount is to be flattened.

There is a Sanctuary and Holy City mentioned in Revelation 11:2 [Which I view as 1st century Herod's Temple]

Let's look closer at the Greek in these verses of Matt, Mark, Luke and Revelation......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:15 Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared<4483> thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood<2476> in a place, holy<40> (the one-reading<ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be understanding... 16 then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Mark 13:14 `Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding<1163>, (the one-reading< ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be minding/understanding), then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/ana-ginwskwn/ἀναγινώσκων <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written, that the time nigh.
=================================
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded<2124> by war-troops<4760>, then be knowing that come nigh<1448> desolating<2050> of Her

However, Luke does not mention it in his Gospel, but a Sanctuary and Court of the Priest is mentioned in Revel 11:2.................

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations
and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months

BABerean2 · Oct 29, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
There is a Sanctuary and Holy City mentioned in Revelation 11:2 [Which I view as 1st century Herod's Temple]

That is because you are ignoring Revelation 11:19, to make your 70 AD doctrine work.

.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 29, 2019

[/quote]BABerean2 said: ↑
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.[/quote]

sparow said: ↑
It is interesting that Revelation was written 15 years after the destruction of the temple and there is no mention of the temple being rebuilt but the temple mount is to be flattened.

LittleLambofJesus said:
There is a Sanctuary and Holy City mentioned in Revelation 11:2 [Which I view as 1st century Herod's Temple]

Let's look closer at the Greek in these verses of Matt, Mark, Luke and Revelation......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:15 Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared<4483> thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood<2476> in a place, holy<40> (the one-reading<ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be understanding... 16 then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Mark 13:14 `Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding<1163>, (the one-reading< ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be minding/understanding), then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/ana-ginwskwn/ἀναγινώσκων <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written, that the time nigh.
=================================
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded<2124> by war-troops<4760>, then be knowing that come nigh<1448> desolating<2050> of Her

However, Luke does not mention it in his Gospel, but a Sanctuary and Court of the Priest is mentioned in Revel 11:2.................

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations
and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months

BABerean2 said:
That is because you are ignoring Revelation 11:19, to make your 70 AD doctrine work.

.

And you are ignoring Revelation 11:1-2 to make your futurism doctrine work.........
Revelation 18 is judgement on 1st Century Jerusalem in 70AD

Idealism: (also called the spiritual approach, the allegorical approach, the nonliteral approach, and many other names) in Christian eschatology is an interpretation of the Book of Revelation that sees all of the imagery of the book as symbols.
Partial Preterism:
Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero.
The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.

Millennialism:

Amillennialism: "no millennium", rejects the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The amillennial viewpoint holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age.

BABerean2 · Oct 29, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
And you are ignoring Revelation 11:1-2 to make your futurism doctrine work.........Revelation 18 is judgement on 1st Century Jerusalem in 70AD

Are you a Partial-Futurist, or are you just pretending?

.

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 29, 2019

BABerean2 said: ↑
15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),
16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Luk 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.
Luk 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.
Click to expand...

sparow said: ↑
It is interesting that Revelation was written 15 years after the destruction of the temple and there is no mention of the temple being rebuilt but the temple mount is to be flattened.

LittleLambofJesus said:
There is a Sanctuary and Holy City mentioned in Revelation 11:2 [Which I view as 1st century Herod's Temple]

Let's look closer at the Greek in these verses of Matt, Mark, Luke and Revelation......

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:15 Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared<4483> thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood<2476> in a place, holy<40> (the one-reading<ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be understanding... 16 then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Mark 13:14 `Whenever yet ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation<2050>, the being declared thru Daniel the prophet, having-stood where not it is binding<1163>, (the one-reading< ἀναγινώσκων <314> let him be minding/understanding), then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing! into the mountains

Revelation 1:3 Happy the one reading/ana-ginwskwn/ἀναγινώσκων <314> (5723) and the ones hearing the words of the prophecy and keepings the in it having been written, that the time nigh.
=================================
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded<2124> by war-troops<4760>, then be knowing that come nigh<1448> desolating<2050> of Her

However, Luke does not mention it in his Gospel, but a Sanctuary and Court of the Priest is mentioned in Revel 11:2.................

What about Revelation 11:1-2 SANCTUARY, COURT AND HOLY CITY

Revelation 11:
1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse! and measure! the Sanctuary of the God and the Altar and those worshiping in it
2 and the Court/fold<833> without of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!<1544> out-side, and no it thou should be measuring, that it was given to the Nations
and they shall be trampling<3961> the holy City forty two months

BABerean2 said:
Are you a Partial-Futurist, or are you just pretending?

.

Revelation 11:1-2 and Revelation 18 is judgement on 1st century Jerusalem and Temple,
and the 2nd coming and final white throne judgement hasn't happend yet,
so I suppose that makes me a partial preterist/futurist/Amill

Partial Preterism:
Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero.
The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.

Amillennialism:
"no millennium", rejects the theory that Jesus Christ will have a thousand-year-long, physical reign on the earth. The amillennial viewpoint holds that the thousand years mentioned in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the current church age.

BABerean2 · Oct 29, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Partial preterism holds that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrists, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero.

The Second coming and the resurrection of the dead, however, have not yet occurred in the partial preterist system.

From your link

"Partial preterism

Partial preterism (often referred to as orthodox preterism or classical preterism) may hold that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 [23] or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero.[24][25]

Some partial preterists may believe that the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were not historically fulfilled."

.

mkgal1 · Oct 29, 2019

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 29, 2019

BABerean2 said:
From your link
"Partial preterism

Partial preterism (often referred to as orthodox preterism or classical preterism) may hold that most eschatological prophecies, such as the destruction of Jerusalem, the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were fulfilled either in AD 70 [23] or during the persecution of Christians under the Emperor Nero.[24][25]

Some partial preterists may believe that the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were not historically fulfilled."

Quit derailing my thread.......................

Statement of Purpose - Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose
Eschatology Forum Statement of Purpose

BABerean2 · Oct 29, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Yes, it is taken from the SOP for the eschatology board............and your point?

You left out the last section, found below.

"Some partial preterists may believe that the Antichrist, the Great Tribulation, and the advent of the Day of the Lord as a "judgment-coming" of Christ, were not historically fulfilled."

.

Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Is there a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9"

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

Fully fulfilled

Half complete Half Future

All Future

Well-Known Member

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Baring The Cross

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Newbie

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Newbie

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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