Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

[jgr]

Everything after the Messiah being cutoff concerns the coming anti-christ. Who do you say it is?

So you would consider "prince" in Daniel 9:26 to refer to antichrist?

But there is only one individual in Daniel 9 identified as a prince.

It is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

 

[Vicky gould]

So you would consider "prince" in Daniel 9:26 to refer to antichrist?

But there is only one individual in Daniel 9 identified as a prince.

It is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

Actually there are two and anti-Christ is the one you are noting in your post. That prince is anti-christ you erects the abomination that causes desolation in the temple. The Lord has nothing to do with this abomination except it’s destruction. Anti- Christ is clearly shown as the High Priest elsewhere and it is he who causes the desolation. This is probably the Beast out of the land in Revelation 13

 

[Vicky gould]

So you would consider "prince" in Daniel 9:26 to refer to antichrist?

But there is only one individual in Daniel 9 identified as a prince.

It is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25.

And Messiah the Prince is cutoff ie sacrificed. Then there is another prince who is to come. The princes in this are Christ and anti- Christ. The period between the 69th Week of Years and the 70th Week of Years has been going on now for about 2,000 years. It is when the anti-christ sets up the abomination that triggers the return of the Lord, Messiah the Prince.

 

[jgr]

And Messiah the Prince is cutoff ie sacrificed. Then there is another prince who is to come. The princes in this are Christ and anti- Christ. The period between the 69th Week of Years and the 70th Week of Years has been going on now for about 2,000 years. It is when the anti-christ sets up the abomination that triggers the return of the Lord, Messiah the Prince.

How can there be two princes if Messiah is the only one identified as a prince?

Messiah is identified as a prince elsewhere in Scripture (e.g. Isaiah 9:6; Revelation 1:5).

Where else in Scripture is antichrist identified as a prince?

 

[Vicky gould]

How can there be two princes if Messiah is the only one identified as a prince?

Messiah is identified as a prince elsewhere in Scripture (e.g. Isaiah 9:6; Revelation 1:5).

Where else in Scripture is antichrist identified as a prince?

Anti-Christ is referred to as the prince of this world. John 14: 30 the Lord calls the coming anti-christ the prince of this world. The Prince Jesus Christ foretelling the coming prince who will be the incarnate devil.

 

[jgr]

Anti-Christ is referred to as the prince of this world. John 14: 30 the Lord calls the coming anti-christ the prince of this world. The Prince Jesus Christ foretelling the coming prince who will be the incarnate devil.

John 14:30 refers to the prince of this world, a clear reference to Satan himself, confirmed as such in John 12:31 and John 16:11, and as a present, not future, reality.

There is no reference to antichrist.

Back in Daniel 9:24-27, antichrist is unsaid, unseen, and unknown in the passage.

The Individual to whom those verses refer is Messiah exclusively.

 

[Douggg]

Anti-Christ is referred to as the prince of this world. John 14: 30 the Lord calls the coming anti-christ the prince of this world. The Prince Jesus Christ foretelling the coming prince who will be the incarnate devil.

Hi Vicky,

I realize you are new to this forum, so I will offer a little assistance to you, if you don't mind.

jgr is making a tricky argument .

"The prince who shall come" referral to the person in Daniel 9:26 is an indication that the person will not already have become the Antichrist when he comes into the middle east and Israel.

When the person arrives in the middle east, Israel, coming from Europe, following Gog/Magog, the Jews will think that he is the messiah. The false prophet will anoint the person the King of Israel (but he is someone who God does not approve to be their King) messiah. That's what make the person the "Anti" "Christ".

Anti - instead of and against.
Christ - the King of Israel. Mark 15:32 "Christ the King of Israel" referring to Jesus, the rightful King of Israel.

You are right that the person is the Antichrist who will confirm the covenant for 7 years. But the prince who shall come label, it is a transitional role to becoming the Antichrist.

_________________________________________________________________________

The person will go through different roles on his path of his destruction. Being the Antichrist is one of them.

 

[BABerean2]

The problem is resolved when we see it is not The Lord Jesus Christ spoken Of Here But The Anti-Christ. How will he cause the temple worship as done will be he sets himself up in the temple and claims to be the fulfillment of Scriptures prophecies, Old Testament that is.

Where is the singular antecedent for an antichrist in Daniel chapter 9?

.

 

[Vicky gould]

Hi Vicky,

I realize you are new to this forum, so I will offer a little assistance to you, if you don't mind.

jgr is making a tricky argument .

"The prince who shall come" referral to the person in Daniel 9:26 is an indication that the person will not already have become the Antichrist when he comes into the middle east and Israel.

When the person arrives in the middle east, Israel, coming from Europe, following Gog/Magog, the Jews will think that he is the messiah. The false prophet will anoint the person the King of Israel (but he is someone who God does not approve to be their King) messiah. That's what make the person the "Anti" "Christ".

Anti - instead of and against.
Christ - the King of Israel. Mark 15:32 "Christ the King of Israel" referring to Jesus, the rightful King of Israel.

You are right that the person is the Antichrist who will confirm the covenant for 7 years. But the prince who shall come label, it is a transitional role to becoming the Antichrist.

_________________________________________________________________________

The person will go through different roles on his path of his destruction. Being the Antichrist is one of them.

View attachment 261617

I really enjoy the degree of knowledge and the great discussions, thank you all. Now I will seek to explain my understanding of anti-Christ. The Lord speaks of having seen Satan fall like lightening this is an exact pre-enactment of the Lord when He returns. Anti-christ is not just the opposer of the Christ he is the counterfeit of Christ. The counterfeiting begins with the way he comes as Lightening it will appear that the Shekinah Glory of God and the promised One has come in fulfillment of all the O. T. Prophecies. All whose names are not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life will believe the delusion and die in Har Meggiddo, Armeggeddon. I think I put too many gg sorry. Then the Lord will return like lightening but this will be the true Shekinah Glory with which the Lord we are told He destroys Anti-Christ

 

[Vicky gould]

I really enjoy the degree of knowledge and the great discussions, thank you all. Now I will seek to explain my understanding of anti-Christ. The Lord speaks of having seen Satan fall like lightening this is an exact pre-enactment of the Lord when He returns. Anti-christ is not just the opposer of the Christ he is the counterfeit of Christ. The counterfeiting begins with the way he comes as Lightening it will appear that the Shekinah Glory of God and the promised One has come in fulfillment of all the O. T. Prophecies. All whose names are not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life will believe the delusion and die in Har Meggiddo, Armeggeddon. I think I put too many gg sorry. Then the Lord will return like lightening but this will be the true Shekinah Glory with which the Lord we are told He destroys Anti-Christ

With the Brightness of His Coming. Sorry for the break I must have typed too many words and it cut me off.

 

[Douggg]

With the Brightness of His Coming. Sorry for the break I must have typed too many words and it cut me off.

Something else must have happened, Vicky. Because your post wasn't that long.

 

[jgr]

jgr is making a tricky argument .

"The prince who shall come" referral to the person in Daniel 9:26 is an indication that the person will not already have become the Antichrist when he comes into the middle east and Israel.

What "tricky argument" would that be?

The prince who shall come, the only prince whom Daniel specifically identifies in Daniel 9, is the Person of Messiah the Christ. How does Christ become antichrist?

 

[Douggg]

What "tricky argument" would that be?

The prince who shall come, the only prince whom Daniel specifically identifies in Daniel 9, is the Person of Messiah the Christ. How does Christ become antichrist?

This one...

"How can there be two princes if Messiah is the only one identified as a prince?"

Jesus cutoff, was before he will be begotten as King of Israel, put in place, ruling in Jerusalem - so he is referred to as messiah the prince in Daniel 9.

That Jesus will be "begotten" as King of Israel, on the Day of that He returns. It is Psalms 2.

1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. [placed as King of Israel, in Jerusalem]

_________________________________________________________________________

jgr, I commented to Vicky, that the Antichrist is called the prince who shall come - is called "prince" as well, because when he first enters into the middle east, and Israel, it will be on the purpose to keep peace in the region (and secure all the oil for the EU), but not yet anointed as the King of Israel by the false prophet.

But shortly upon his arrival, the Jews will think he is the messiah, because messiah fever will be high in that day, as God will have supernaturally destroyed Gog's armies. The false prophet will seize the opportunity and will anoint the prince who shall come as King of Israel, that is to say from prince to King.

Becoming King of Israel -but not approved by God - is what makes the person the Antichrist.

________________________________________________________________________

So there are two princes in Daniel 9:26.

One is the true messiah Jesus to be begotten as King of Israel, in Psalms 2:7; and the other one, the prince who shall come from the EU, will become the King of Israel for a short while - who in the role of the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 for the 7 years.

The little horn person will be King of the Roman Empire when he comes, but only a prince in terms that he will not yet be the Antichrist, the King of Israel, when he first arrives.

 

[BABerean2]

One is the true messiah Jesus to be begotten as King of Israel, in Psalms 2:7; and the other one, the prince who shall come from the EU, will become the King of Israel for a short while - who in the role of the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 for the 7 years.

Have you ever read the passages below from the New Testament, which show the Law of Moses is finished?


Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; (from the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

So there are two princes in Daniel 9:26.
One is the true messiah Jesus to be begotten as King of Israel, in Psalms 2:7; and the other one, the prince who shall come from the EU, will become the King of Israel for a short while - who in the role of the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 for the 7 years.
The little horn person will be King of the Roman Empire when he comes, but only a prince in terms that he will not yet be the Antichrist, the King of Israel, when he first arrives.

I will have to go back and revisit my post on the translation of that verse.......

Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Daniel 9:26:

And after<310> the sevens<620> sixty<8346 and two<8147>
shall be cut off<3772> anointed-one<4899>
3772 karath kaw-rath' a primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication, to destroy or consume; specifically, to covenant (i.e. make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh and passing between the pieces):--
4899 mashiyach maw-shee'-akh from 4886; anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically, the Messiah:--anointed, Messiah.

and there is nothing<369> to-him
and the city<5892>
369 'ayin ah'-yin as if from a primitive root meaning to be nothing or not exist; a non-entity; generally used as a negative particle:-
5892 `iyr eer or (in the plural) par {awr}; or ayar (Judges 10:4) {aw-yar'}; from 5782 a city

and the sanctuary<6944> he shall ruin<7843>
6944 qodesh ko'-desh from 6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:--consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.
7843 shachath shaw-khath' a primitive root; to decay, i.e. (causatively) ruin (literally or figuratively):--batter, cast off, corrupt(-er, thing), destroy(-er, -uction), lose, mar, perish, spill, spoiler, X utterly, waste(-r).

people<5971> of ruler/chief<5057> the one-coming<935>
5971 `am am from 6004; a people (as a congregated unit); specifically, a tribe (as those of Israel);
5057 nagiyd naw-gheed' or nagid {naw-gheed'}; from 5046; a commander (as occupying the front), civil, military or religious; generally (abstractly, plural), honorable themes:--captain, chief, excellent thing, (chief) governor, leader, noble, prince, (chief) ruler.
935 bow' bo a primitive root; to go or come (in a wide variety of applications):--abide, apply, attain, X be, befall, + besiege, bring (forth, in, into, to pass),

and end-of-him<7093> in-overflowing<7858>
7093 qets kates contracted from 7112; an extremity; adverbially (with prepositional prefix) after:--+ after, (utmost) border, end, (in-)finite, X process.
7858 sheteph sheh'-tef or sheteph {shay'-tef}; from 7857; a deluge (literally or figuratively):--flood, outrageous, overflowing.

and until<5704> end<7093> war<4421>
5704 `ad ad properly, the same as 5703 (used as a preposition, adverb or conjunction; especially with a preposition); as far (or long, or much) as, whether of space (even unto) or time (during, while, until) or degree (equally with):
7093 qets kates contracted from 7112; an extremity; adverbially (with prepositional prefix) after:--+ after, (utmost) border, end, (in-)finite, X process.
4421 milchamah mil-khaw-maw' from 3898 (in the sense of fighting); a battle (i.e. the engagement); generally, war (i.e. warfare):--battle, fight(-ing), war((-rior)).

being decided<2782> ones being desolate<8074>.
2782 charats khaw-rats' a primitive root; properly, to point sharply, i.e. (literally) to wound; figuratively, to be alert, to decide:--bestir self, decide, decree, determine, maim, move.
8074 shamem shaw-mame' a primitive root; to stun (or intransitively, grow numb), i.e. devastate or (figuratively) stupefy (both usually in a passive sense):--make amazed, be astonied, (be an) astonish(-ment), (be, bring into, unto, lay, lie, make) desolate(-ion, places), be destitute, destroy (self), (lay, lie, make) waste, wonder.

This part of vs 26 is intriguing

and until<5704> end<7093> war<4421>/

In fact I just started a thread on the great NORTH vs SOUTH War on another thread with a rather unique "spin" on it involving the great 1st century Roman/Jewish Wars:

Daniel 11 and the great North vs South War

Daniel 10:1
In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia a thing was revealed to Daniel, whose name was called Belteshazzar; and the thing was true, even a great warfare/host<6635>
and he understood the thing, and had understanding of the vision.

#H4421 used in just 3 verses in Daniel:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Dan 9:26
“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war<4421> desolations are determined.

Dan 11:20
“There shall arise in his place one who imposes taxes on the glorious kingdom;
but within a few days he shall be destroyed, but not in anger or in battle.
Dan 11:25
“He shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the South with a great army.
And the king of the South shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army;
but he shall not stand, for they shall devise plans against him.

Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War ARTchive @ PreteristArchive.com,

CAST OF CHARACTERS: Roman: Emperor Nero | General Vespasian | General Titus | The Roman Army || Jewish: General / Historian Josephus | Factional Leaders in Jerusalem || Administrators of Roman Judea Targets: Jerusalem | Herod's Temple // Maps of the Roman Invasion // Theological Timeline

CHRONOLOGY IMMEDIATELY SURROUNDING THE WAR

Stage 1: Murder of James the Just, "Opposition High Priest" ; Irrevocable Split: 62
Stage 2: General Revolt in Jerusalem[South?]; Zealot Occupation of Masada: August-September 66
Stage 3: The Campaign of Cestius Gallus and the Defeat of the Twelfth Legion: October-November 66
Stage 4: End of Collaborative Government, Priesthood ; General Flight: November 66 - March 67
Part 6: Vespasian Subdues Northern and Western Palestine: December 66 - December 68
Part 7: Three-way Power Struggle within Jerusalem After Roman Retreat: January 68 - May 70
Part 8: Romans[North?] Breach City Walls and Leave Jerusalem Desolate: May 10 - September 10, 70

 

[Douggg]

Have you ever read the passages below from the New Testament, which show the Law of Moses is finished?

The ten commandments are no longer in effect? Do you know what is the reasoning behind the term "Law of Moses" ? It is because the children of Israel received the Law, the Torah, through Moses *. (* I was informed this by the Jews themselves at MessiahTruth countermissionary site).

Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a requirement that Moses set up for all future leaders of Israel to do. It does not contradict with anything in the New Covenant. It is remembrance requirement regarding the promised land that the children of Israel were about to go over the Jordan and possess.

 

[Vicky gould]

What "tricky argument" would that be?

The prince who shall come, the only prince whom Daniel specifically identifies in Daniel 9, is the Person of Messiah the Christ. How does Christ become antichrist?

Sorry for the capitals but I am a hunt and peck typer and did not realize I had done so. Please excuse.

the beast in revelation 13 that comes out of the land will as the Christ was be born a Jewish Man so anti-Christ who is the Lord's counterfeit will be born in Israel. The beast out of the sea is the unholy spirit, counterfeiting the Holy Spirit will come from the world at large. HE WILL BE GIVEN POWER BY ANTI-CHRIST TO PERFORM ALL KINDS OF COUNTERFEIT SIGN AND WONDERS and he will appear to bring fire down from heaven counterfeiting Elijah and the fire that he will seem to bring down from heaven will be the counterfeit Shekinah Glory seemingly fulfilling the promise of Elijah preparing the way for the Messiah.

When the Passover Seder is finishing each year the Jewish people have a cup called Elijah's Cup set at an empty spot at the table. This cup it is believed can only be takenby Elijah or the Messiah. Each year the door is opened and the call goes out for Elijah to come but he doesn't come. But in the near? future a being is going to answer that call. He will seem to bring fire down preparing the Messiah's way and with the false Shekinah Glory will convince the world that this being is God the Messiah.

 

[jgr]

Jesus cutoff, was before he will be begotten as King of Israel, put in place, ruling in Jerusalem - so he is referred to as messiah the prince in Daniel 9.

Messiah was a prince before He was cut off, and never ceased to be a prince thereafter. (Acts 3:15; Acts 5:31; Revelation 1:5).

Antichrist is called the prince who shall come

Not in my Bible. What version are you reading from?

Becoming King of Israel -but not approved by God - is what makes the person the Antichrist.

John is very specific about what makes a person an antichrist. (1 John 2:18; 1 John 2:22; 1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7). The King of Israel is conspicuously absent.

So there are two princes in Daniel 9:26.

Not in my Bible. What version are you reading from?

The little horn person will be King of the Roman Empire when he comes, but only a prince in terms that he will not yet be the Antichrist, the King of Israel, when he first arrives.

A favorite expositor of mine expressed it this way:

"It is difficult to understand how this writer could impose so many errors in such a small compass of words." (Dr. H. C. Heffren, D.D)

 

[Vicky gould]

funny how often someone expresses how wrong others are when it is they who have the error. I have multiple versions of the Bible and read all of them. I read many different commentators from J Vernon McGee to Arthur Pink and have not found any mainstream commentators who do not see and understand that this passage after the Messiah is cutoff is about anti-Christ whose times and actions begins to be laid out in much greater detail. These words closing out chapter nine begins the shift to the subject of that Prince of this World the second prince of Daniel Nine.

 

[Vicky gould]

The ten commandments are no longer in effect? Do you know what is the reasoning behind the term "Law of Moses" ? It is because the children of Israel received the Law, the Torah, through Moses *. (* I was informed this by the Jews themselves at MessiahTruth countermissionary site).

Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a requirement that Moses set up for all future leaders of Israel to do. It does not contradict with anything in the New Covenant. It is remembrance requirement regarding the promised land that the children of Israel were about to go over the Jordan and possess.

The ten commandments are no longer in effect? Do you know what is the reasoning behind the term "Law of Moses" ? It is because the children of Israel received the Law, the Torah, through Moses *. (* I was informed this by the Jews themselves at MessiahTruth countermissionary site).

Deuteronomy 31:9-13 was a requirement that Moses set up for all future leaders of Israel to do. It does not contradict with anything in the New Covenant. It is remembrance requirement regarding the promised land that the children of Israel were about to go over the Jordan and possess.

Part of what the Lord spoke of on the cross was the end of the Law when He declared it is finished. As long as we are married to the Law we cannot be the Bride of Christ Romans 7. The written Law has been fulfilled and now we serve through the Royal Law as given in the Beatitudes. When we compare the old written Law to the new Royal Law it is easy to see why people prefer to stay under the written Law. We can be like Paul claimed "as to the Law perfect." It was only when Paul came out from under the written Law to the Royal Law of Love that he saw himself as the "chief of sinners."