Where does ZECHARIAH 14:12 fit in future prophecy?

[LittleLambofJesus]

I read thru this verse recently and I have some difficulty with it.

Being a preterist, I am trying to fit this into 70ad and Revelation and was wondering how others have viewed it.

Translations are all over the place on it so I tried to translate it using a lexicon and Hebrew interlinear [ISA] and here is what I come up with. [I put strong's #s next to a few of the words in case others want to look them up]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Zechariah 14:12
And this shall become the stroke<4046> which Yahweh shall strike<5062> all of the peoples which muster<6633> on Jerusalem
to rot<4743> flesh of him and he standing on feet of him
and eyes of him shall rot in holes<2356> of them
and tongue of him shall rot in mouth of them.

Various translations and commentaries


Zechariah 14:12 And this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes all the peoples who have warred against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

Zechariah 14:12 Commentaries: Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

Pulpit Commentary
Verses 12-15. - § 8. Having noted the blessings on the true Israelites, the prophet gives further details concerning the destruction of the enemies: they shall perish by plague, by mutual slaughter, by the sword of Judah. Verse 12. - This shall be the plague. These are the instruments which the Lord uses when he fights against the nations (not the people, as in the Authorized Version), ver. 3. The plague, or smiting (maggephah), is some contagions affliction sent by God, as in Exodus 9:14; Numbers 14:37; 1 Samuel 6:4. Their. It is, in the Hebrew, "his flesh, his feet," etc., to show that the general plague extends to every individual. In the last clause the plural is used, "their mouth." With body, eye, and tongue they opposed the holy city, and took pleasure in its discomfiture: in all their members they shall suffer retributive punishment. While they stand upon their feet. The flesh of each shall putrefy and moulder away, while he is still alive and arrayed against the city of God. Holes; soakers. The eyes had spied out the weak places in the defence, and looked with malicious pleasure on the defeat and fall. Tongue. They had blasphemed God, and cried against his holy place, "Down with it, even to the ground!"

 

[Biblewriter]

There has obviously never been a historical event that can be wrested to even appear to fit this prophecy. - end of Preterism.

 

[klutedavid]

I read thru this verse recently and I have some difficulty with it.

Being a preterist, I am trying to fit this into 70ad and Revelation and was wondering how others have viewed it.

Translations are all over the place on it so I tried to translate it using a lexicon and Hebrew interlinear [ISA] and here is what I come up with. [I put strong's #s next to a few of the words in case others want to look them up]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

Scripture4All - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

Zechariah 14:12
And this shall become the stroke<4046> which Yahweh shall strike<5062> all of the peoples which muster<6633> on Jerusalem
to rot<4743> flesh of him and he standing on feet of him
and eyes of him shall rot in holes<2356> of them
and tongue of him shall rot in mouth of them.

Various translations and commentaries


Zechariah 14:12 And this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes all the peoples who have warred against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.

Zechariah 14:12 Commentaries: Now this will be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the peoples who have gone to war against Jerusalem; their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, and their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongue will rot in their mouth.

Pulpit Commentary
Verses 12-15. - § 8. Having noted the blessings on the true Israelites, the prophet gives further details concerning the destruction of the enemies: they shall perish by plague, by mutual slaughter, by the sword of Judah. Verse 12. - This shall be the plague. These are the instruments which the Lord uses when he fights against the nations (not the people, as in the Authorized Version), ver. 3. The plague, or smiting (maggephah), is some contagions affliction sent by God, as in Exodus 9:14; Numbers 14:37; 1 Samuel 6:4. Their. It is, in the Hebrew, "his flesh, his feet," etc., to show that the general plague extends to every individual. In the last clause the plural is used, "their mouth." With body, eye, and tongue they opposed the holy city, and took pleasure in its discomfiture: in all their members they shall suffer retributive punishment. While they stand upon their feet. The flesh of each shall putrefy and moulder away, while he is still alive and arrayed against the city of God. Holes; soakers. The eyes had spied out the weak places in the defence, and looked with malicious pleasure on the defeat and fall. Tongue. They had blasphemed God, and cried against his holy place, "Down with it, even to the ground!"

It may be an issue for full preterism, it represents no issues for a partial preterist.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

There has obviously never been a historical event that can be wrested to even appear to fit this prophecy. - end of Preterism.

Typical..............


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[Not David]

Maybe it is symbolic.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It may be an issue for full preterism, it represents no issues for a partial preterist.

What is the partial preterist view?


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[Dave L]

The day of victory (vv. 1–5, 12–15)

The chapter opens with Zechariah portraying Jerusalem being surrounded by enemies. It is his way of depicting one of the primary features of the gospel age, namely, the people of God being hated and opposed! Jerusalem is his way of representing the saints of the gospel age, and the details offered here (‘houses rifled’, ‘women ravished’, ‘captivity’—v. 2) are particularly graphic ways of depicting the calamities that would befall the people of God during the whole of that era. Although serious and heart-wrenching, however, the calamities would never be sufficient to deprive God of his people. The remnant would never be ‘cut off’ (v. 2).

The opposers of God’s people will find themselves opposed! The Lord Jesus, who ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:9–12), will return from heaven to that same mount—an event of such overwhelming significance that the prophet could only convey it in terms of the mount itself splitting in two (v. 4)! The Lord’s coming will put an end to the enemies of the saints because ‘the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem’ (v. 12). In horrific terms the prophet describes what awaits God’s foes—flesh, eyes and tongues will all ‘dissolve’ (v. 12). And these foes will be seized with ‘a great panic from the LORD’ (v. 13).


Ellsworth, R. (2010). Opening Up Zechariah (pp. 132–133). Leominster: Day One Publications.

 

[klutedavid]

What is the partial preterist view?


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Look it up on the internet, just type 'partial preterism'.

 

[Dave-W]

Maybe it is symbolic.

Not at all.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Look it up on the internet, just type 'partial preterism'.

Thanks for voting............
I voted no opinion yet........

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[Dave-W]

There has obviously never been a historical event that can be wrested to even appear to fit this prophecy.

Or what comes after it.

In verse 16 and following it talks about Egypt and other countries’ survivors going to Jerusalem every year to celebrate Sukkot, feast of Tabernacles. When has that ever happened?

Again - NOT symbolic.

 

[_Dave_]

The first verse in the chapter clues the meaning of all the rest: "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee."

Everywhere "The Day of the Lord" is mentioned in scripture it refers to the future coming of the Lord, the return of Christ to establish his earthly kingdom.

Judging from the tone of the rest of the chapter it won't be a very pleasant time for those who are still here at that time, especially those who have "fought against Jerusalem."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Guess it may help by delving more into the Hebrew words used in that verse and see how they are used in the NT

Zechariah 14:12
And this shall become the stroke<4046>..................

4046 maggephah mag-gay-faw' from 5062;
a pestilence; by analogy, defeat:--(X be) plague(-d), slaughter, stroke.
H4046 matches the Hebrew מַגֵּפָה (maggephah), occurs 26 times in 25 verses

1st time used:

Exo 9:14
“for at this time I will send all My plagues to your very heart, and on your servants and on your people, that you may know that there is none like Me in all the earth.

Last time used:

Zec 14:18
If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain;
they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

So we have Egypt, stroke/plague/pestilence.

Matthew 24:7
“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
And there will be famines, pestilences<3061>,[fn] and earthquakes in various places.

Luke 21:
11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences<3061> in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

Eygpt is last used in the NT book of Revelation....whoa!

Rev 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[fn] Lord was crucified.

G4127 appears to be a type of H4046.

4127 plege plhgaV from 4141;; n f
AV - plague 12, stripe 5, wound 4; 21 1) a blow, stripe, a wound 2) a public calamity, heavy affliction, plague,
G4127 matches the Greek πληγή (plēgē),
which occurs 21 times in 20 verses

That word is used in Revelation as "blows/stripes"

Revelation 15:1
And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous. Messengers, seven, having blows/stripes/plhgaV <4127>, seven, the last,
that in them is finished the fury of the God.


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[Not David]

Remember that the Church is the continuation of Israel.

 

[Biblewriter]

Typical..............


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Your laugh is indeed typical. But there is indeed no way to shoehorn this prophecy into ANY event recorded in history.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Your laugh is indeed typical. But there is indeed no way to shoehorn this prophecy into ANY event recorded in history.

Except for the Olivet Discourse, Revelation and 70ad which I am trying to harmonize that verse with.
I haven't heard from any partial preterists on this yet......

What is your view on "spiritual Egypt" in Revelation?

Why is Egypt mentioned in conjunction with the Feast of Tabernacles?

Zec 14:18
If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain;
they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Rev 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[fn] Lord was crucified.

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[klutedavid]

Remember that the Church is the continuation of Israel.

Yet the Gentiles are grafted into the root which is Christ. Gentiles are brought near but not into Israel.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I haven't had time look for the Greek equivalet for this word and when I do, I will bring it up.
What I am finding so far is how prominent "Egypt" appears...........

Zechariah 14:
12 And this shall become the stroke<4046> which Yahweh shall strike<5062> all of the peoples which muster<6633> on Jerusalem
to rot<4743> flesh of him and he standing on feet of him
and eyes of him shall rot in holes<2356> of them
and tongue of him shall rot in mouth of them.
18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain;
they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
5062 nagaph naw-gaf' a primitive root;
to push, gore, defeat, stub (the toe), inflict (a disease):--beat, dash, hurt, plague, slay, smite (down), strike, stumble, X surely, put to the worse.
H5062 matches the Hebrew נָגַף (nagaph), occurs 49 times in 46 verses

1st time used. Another tie in with Egypt and Revelation......

Exo 8:2
“But if you refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite<5062> all your territory with frogs.
Psa 78:45
He sent swarms of flies among them, which devoured them,
And frogs, which destroyed them.

Rev 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our[fn] Lord was crucified.
Rev 16:13
And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs coming out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Isa 19:22
And the LORD will strike Egypt, He will strike and heal it; they will return to the LORD, and He will be entreated by them and heal them.
Isa 19:22
And the LORD will strike Egypt, He will strike and heal it; they will return to the LORD, and He will be entreated by them and heal them.
Jer 13:16
Give glory to the LORD your God
Before He causes darkness,
And before they are stiking<5062> feet of you
On the dark mountains,
And while you are looking for light,
He turns it into the shadow of death
And makes it dense darkness.


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[Not David]

Yet the Gentiles are grafted into the root which is Christ. Gentiles are brought near but not into Israel.

The unbelieving Jews aren't part of Israel. That's why Paul refers to Abraham as the Father of faith for both Jews and Gentiles who believe in Christ.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

klutedavid said: ↑
Yet the Gentiles are grafted into the root which is Christ. Gentiles are brought near but not into Israel.

The unbelieving Jews aren't part of Israel. That's why Paul refers to Abraham as the Father of faith for both Jews and Gentiles who believe in Christ.

That kind of getting off topic from the OP, but can you please vote. Thanks......


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