Where does morality come from?

[Moral Orel]

Sometimes, but not always a morally good thing to do.

Yeah, I'm just speaking generally, there are exceptions. But if being nice is a morally good thing to do, and making people happy is a nice thing to do, then how come making people happy isn't a morally good thing to do, generally?

 

[Moral Orel]

That's not the question am asking. What moral laws can a person permanently marooned alone possibly break?

"I shouldn't kill myself".

 

[Ken-1122]

Yeah, I'm just speaking generally, there are exceptions. But if being nice is a morally good thing to do, and making people happy is a nice thing to do, then how come making people happy isn't a morally good thing to do, generally?

I just don't see morality and happiness as going hand and hand. Perhaps good & happiness, but not morality & happiness.

 

[Speedwell]

"I shouldn't kill myself".

Why not?

 

[Moral Orel]

Why not?

People can have pretty much whatever reasons they want for that. You asked for a moral that someone could hold to even if no one else is or ever will be around. I provided.

 

[Ken-1122]

People can have pretty much whatever reasons they want for that. You asked for a moral that someone could hold to even if no one else is or ever will be around. I provided.

People have all sorts of reasons why it is immoral to worship the wrong God as well! If you don't believe killing yourself to be a moral issue, why did you mention it as one? If you do believe it to be a moral issue, why not explain why?

 

[Moral Orel]

I just don't see morality and happiness as going hand and hand. Perhaps good & happiness, but not morality & happiness.

If nice is morally good, and making people feel happy is nice, then making people feel happy is morally good. Generally speaking of course. Where have I erred in my reasoning? You just disagree and you don't know why?

And "good" how? If not morally good, then how do you mean good?

 

[Moral Orel]

People have all sorts of reasons why it is immoral to worship the wrong God as well! If you don't believe killing yourself to be a moral issue, why did you mention it as one? If you do believe it to be a moral issue, why not explain why?

I know it is a moral for some people. That is sufficient to answer the question that was asked.

 

[Ken-1122]

If nice is morally good, and making people feel happy is nice, then making people feel happy is morally good.

I don’t believe nice equals morally good.

Generally speaking of course. Where have I erred in my reasoning? You just disagree and you don't know why?

IMO morally good involves other people.

And "good" how? If not morally good, then how do you mean good?

If I were on a deserted Island by myself, no other person around; there are a lot of good things I could do while on that island; (look for food, build shelter, prepare to build a boat to get off etc) But there is nothing I could do what would be considered morally good, or morally bad.

 

[Moral Orel]

I don’t believe nice equals morally good.

I didn't say "equals". I said "generally speaking of course" to make sure you didn't think that "is" meant some absolute like "equals".

IMO morally good involves other people.

Being nice and making other people happy involves other people.

If I were on a deserted Island by myself, no other person around; there are a lot of good things I could do while on that island; (look for food, build shelter, prepare to build a boat to get off etc) But there is nothing I could do what would be considered morally good, or morally bad.

So you personally don't have any morals that don't involve other people, so what?

 

[Ken-1122]

I know it is a moral for some people. That is sufficient to answer the question that was asked.

For some people it is the morally wrong thing to do, others it is the morally right thing to do. So which question did you answer?

 

[Moral Orel]

For some people it is the morally wrong thing to do, others it is the morally right thing to do. So which question did you answer?

I answered Speedy's question, you can see it quoted in my post where I gave the answer.

 

[Ken-1122]

I didn't say "equals". I said "generally speaking of course" to make sure you didn't think that "is" meant some absolute like "equals".

Fair enough; I do believe “nice” is good, but not morally good in most circumstances.

Being nice and making other people happy involves other people.

True! But most issues involving other people are not moral issues. Being nice is not a moral issue.

So you personally don't have any morals that don't involve other people, so what?

You asked the difference between good vs morally good; I gave you an answer.

 

[Ken-1122]

I answered Speedy's question, you can see it quoted in my post where I gave the answer.

Ahh so Speedy believes killing yourself is a moral issue? Got it.

 

[Moral Orel]

Fair enough; I do believe “nice” is good, but not morally good in most circumstances.

When is it morally good? What makes that circumstance different from other circumstances?

True! But most issues involving other people are not moral issues. Being nice is not a moral issue.

Being nice is not something you feel is a moral issue. Okay, why not?

You asked the difference between good vs morally good; I gave you an answer.

Well, you definitely replied... But no, that doesn't answer the question of "what's the difference?" Describe the difference to me.

 

[Moral Orel]

Ahh so Speedy believes killing yourself is a moral issue? Got it.

I didn't say that either. You and your make-believe...

You realize that you don't get to dictate what is and what is not a moral issue, correct? That's something you decide for yourself, not something that you demonstrate as true for everyone. You're still a subjectivist, right? It's hard to keep track of your position, it moves around so much.

 

[Ken-1122]

When is it morally good? What makes that circumstance different from other circumstances?

That is decided on a case by case basis, but when it is applied, it involves other people

Being nice is not something you feel is a moral issue. Okay, why not?

Because one has nothing to do with the other

Well, you definitely replied... But no, that doesn't answer the question of "what's the difference?" Describe the difference to me.

What is it about my reply that you are not understanding?

I didn't say that either.

So what are you saying? You were asked a specific question; you replied with an answer that apparently doesn’t apply to you nor Speedy, but some other unnamed person. Why would you respond with an answer that you don’t even believe yourself?

 

[Speedwell]

People can have pretty much whatever reasons they want for that. You asked for a moral that someone could hold to even if no one else is or ever will be around. I provided.

Of course, if morality is objective they wouldn't need any other reason.

 

[Moral Orel]

That is decided on a case by case basis, but when it is applied, it involves other people

Whatever, man. I'm not going to keep sifting through these non-answer dodges. I think you're just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. The only distinction you've drawn is the requirement of other people being involved, which being nice requires so... You can't give me a reason why, and it's perfectly normal to think that being nice is morally good. So feel however you feel, if you actually feel that way, it's weird.

So what are you saying? You were asked a specific question; you replied with an answer that apparently doesn’t apply to you nor Speedy, but some other unnamed person. Why would you respond with an answer that you don’t even believe yourself?

The question didn't require my answer to apply to either of us. I don't need to believe "I shouldn't kill myself" to acknowledge that it is a moral I could "possibly" adhere to.

 

[Moral Orel]

Of course, if morality is objective they wouldn't need any other reason.

I just wanted to point out that you don't need other people around to have your own personal rulebook for how you conduct yourself.