First, the minor points:
you originally said that I didn't have sources for the claim that people rejected christianity because of it's aversion to higher standards, abstinence from alcohol is a higher standard, and I proved that christians are more susceptible to it, via peer review. So is this question answered or not?
1. Science never proves anything. All you have done is to demonstrate that evidence suggests that (some) Christians are better able to resist the temptations of alcohol than non-Christians. You have not demonstrated that Christians are also better able to resist arson, burglary, conspiracy, domestic violence, extortion, fraud, etc.
Well they teach different ways to get to heaven, the catholics as per the catechism have seven sacraments they must perform to be saved, for the protestant christian it is merely faith in christ, so in that manner they are different. Mainly in the gospel message. But a catholic can relate to christianity if they wish, I dont' care.
there are lots of peer reviews about the benefits of religion in the world, forgiveness goes a long way in things such as addictions, and that is why christianity excels at things like victory over addiction, where other religions, even catholicism, will fall behind.
It is only fair that I give you a warning. The next time I see a post in which you clearly make a distinction between Christians and Catholics I shall be reporting that post as being against the forum rules. I hope that, as a Christian, you would wish to avoid breaking the rules of the Christian Forum.
all I am saying is that you can pick any one of your beliefs you wish, take your pick. You cannot prove a single fact. Nothing is provable, accept maybe 1/10th of one percent of facts. So your contention that I have not proven my position, is somewhat hypocritical.
You have explicitly or implicitly spoken as if your position is solid. You have spoken as if your position is proven. That makes it valid to ask you to provide the proof.
I have not explicitly, or implicitly spoken of having proven any of the concepts that I currently accept as being the best evidenced and argued explanations for what we observe. Since, therefore, I have not asserted that any of my positions are proven I can hardly be accused of hypocrisy for asking those who do make such assertions to justify/prove them.
If you wish to declare that your positions and beliefs are tentative and subject to error, then I shall stop asking for proof. It's your choice.
I am not here to persuade you, only the readers, the struggling christians coming to the thread. You are not open to christianity at all and you are just here to recruit to atheism.
I gave you a comprehensive statement as to why I participate in these forums. Recruiting atheists was not one of the reasons. I find your remark here offensive, deluded and self-serving.
In case that was unclear: I do not participate in these forums to recruit atheists.
Aside: I don't even approve of atheism, of the kind where the atheist declares with certainty "there is no God". I don't hold with such ludicrous degrees of certainty.
When a christian falls into atheism you find joy and fulfillment in that. As if you have done some honorable thing..
Once again, offensive and deluded. In the real world I have often avoided following a particular line of discussion with friends or work colleagues for fear that it might adversely test their faith. Is that the action of someone who finds "joy and fulfilment" when a "Christian falls into atheism".
There are several Christian members on this forum for whom I have considerable respect. If I were to learn that any words I had written had led them away from their faith I would be mortified. Is that the reaction to be expected from someone who finds "joy and fulfilment" when a "Christian falls into atheism".
I do find a degree of "joy and fulfilment" when a fundamentalist Christian recognises, for example, that it may be possible for evolution and Scripture to be reconciled.
But in reality the skeptic has not worth or value in himself, he parasites off of religion for his converts.
There are plenty of practising Christians who find no conflict between their beliefs and their faith and the use of scepticism and rational thought. And "converts" to the use of scepticism and rational thought are the only converts I would be interested in. But please note, obtaining such "converts" would only be an ancillary, unconscious benefit of being on the forum.
see so you admit, you are not here to learn of be a christian, but so that you may find out how you may hold a contrary view. So my analysis of your motive for being here is accurate.
Rubbish!
I don't
admit I am not here to learn to be a Christian.You speak as if you have dragged some great secret from me. You haven't. I have never, in any of my posts, at any time during my membership, stated or implied anything that suggested I was here to "learn to be a Christian". I gave you my reasons for being here previously. You have chosen to call me a liar. Shame on you, not on me.
I'll assume you misread a portion of my post, rather than deliberately misrepresenting it. I did not say that I wanted to "find out how might hold a contrary view". Here is a second attempt to get my point across.
1. I come to the forum, in part, to be exposed to alternative views.
2. I come to the forum, in part, to seek to understand the rationale behind those views.
3. I come to the forum, in part, to present my own view, where I feel it may be relevant/interesting/important.
4. In that case I seek also to explain why I hold that view. (This is only proper, since I have gained an insight into the alternative viewpoint and why it is held. It would wrong of me to deprive the other party of the same kind of information on my viewpoint and its motivations.)
I am here to help struggling christians, but sometimes it is needed for a christian to really expose the motives of athiests in these threads. If they are not open to the Bible and God, why are they here at all? They are just here to try to convince people to disbelieve. If they are not honest with the true intention of their heart, then they are self deceived.
Get over yourself. I've given you my reasons. If you cannot accept them perhaps you should just place all atheists and agnostics on Ignore. To be on the safe side you might wish to include Catholics!
Thank you for responding to a situation that may not always be the most comfortable for you to discuss,
The only uncomfortable aspect of it was your intransigent insistence upon assigning me motives that do not exist. Such intransigence is extremely frustrating, for it betrays the very lack of scepticism,open-mindedness and rationality that I admire. It seems I can do very little to correct that in others, so yes, it makes me uncomfortable to think you will continue being deluded as to my motives despite any efforts on my part. You might wish to reflect on the issue of bearing false witness. It may be applicable here.