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This is just assertion. You use terms like "I believe" and "I feel" and "I knew", these are not good reasons to believe something is true. There is scientific evidence that our personalities are rooted in the brain. If we manipulate the brain we can change a persons personality etc.sure, a soul is the life force of the body. The immaterial object that contains our personality. Of which even animals have. But humans are also given a spirit. And it is that part that goes to heaven. But that is another topic, I don't want to confuse. But for now, lets view in humans the spirit and the soul, as just the soul. I would ask you what is the substance that holds our emotions? Is it electricity? Is it neurons? See I believe all of that is just the hardware of the body, the actual soul is the software of the body. When I was younger, I looked in the mirron and I said, "who am I."? I knew that my body was just the housing, that I was somehow inside and different. I think most people do realize this. I think that later in life, we are misquided into believing we are just brain impulses and not a person in there. But anyway, I hope that answers your question. I don't have proof that we have a soul. But our hardware is run on a type of software, and the software, the program is immaterial, without mass, and thus eternal. Information in general is eternal, because information is massless. I don't want to confuse, but if you get into information science, this starts to make sense.
This doesn't matter to me. Both are terrible and Pascals wager makes no sense when there are multiple terrible possibilities. It is just as likely that the Islamic hell true as the Christian hell is. And actually there is not sufficient evidence for either.islamic hell is very similiar but biblical hell is worse. Namely because of how you get there. In christianity for one smallest sin you die. Where I believe in islam it takes more than one basic sin, it takes heresy or some other mortal sin to make it there.
But yet you still need faith right?
Yes "sufficient" is subjective. What evidence people accept is different for each person. This is why we have hung juries. We don't get to choose what we believe, either we are convinced or we are not of anything. Each person gets to decide what is sufficient for them. However, it is how we come to determine what sufficient is can be discussed and can change for each person throughout their life. I was convinced that god existed for a long time, I no longer do after studying epistemology etc.
If it needs to be moved I am fine with that.
I agree that we nothing can be known 100%. However, equating faith in god to not knowing that V=IR is 100% accurate are not the same. There is mountains of evidence that V=IR for DC circuits for instance and no testable evidence that a god exists. Science has been a reliable way to determine truth, faith has not. Faith in god is believing god without falsifiable evidence, many things that science has found to be most likely true are falsifiable and have not been as of yet.we all believe things by faith, nearly all facts are unprovable, science...unverifiable and uprovable, nothing is for certain. So yes, he uses faith. But we all do. Science does.
Mostly because of the results. There have been dishonest scientists, wrong conclusions in science but over time those are exposed by other scientists not by faith. Science has figured out how to replace a human heart that knowledge would never have been found through faith. So equating faith in god to faith in science is not even a close comparison.Think about it this way, when they make a scientific hypothesis, they write down their observations and conclusions to their tests, how do you know they did it accurately? How do you know they were not fudging the numbers to make the report look better? How do you know they didn't lie? You don't. You just take their word for it. Even peer reviews, they are screened by a group of people. How do you know they are not biased? How do you know they peer review it accurately, and how do you know that if one person out of five that didn't like it, wouldn't change his mind to agree with the others? You don't. So again, we all have faith. It's just that Christians are the only ones who admit it in these forums.
I am ok with either.Alright, then. Would you prefer to have a discussion through a PM or would you rather keep it in a public venue (and thereby also remain open to being t-boned and otherwise interrupted by various interlocutors from all angles?)
Yes.I agree that we nothing can be known 100%. However, equating faith in god to not knowing that V=IR is 100% accurate are not the same. There is mountains of evidence that V=IR for DC circuits for instance and no testable evidence that a god exists. Science has been a reliable way to determine truth, faith has not. Faith in god is believing god without falsifiable evidence, many things that science has found to be most likely true are falsifiable and have not been as of yet.
Mostly because of the results. There have been dishonest scientists, wrong conclusions in science but over time those are exposed by other scientists not by faith. Science has figured out how to replace a human heart that knowledge would never have been found through faith. So equating faith in god to faith in science is not even a close comparison.
I agree. Science cannot be used on a hypothesis that cannot be falsified. Your claim of a mass-less soul is just that, a claim until you can provide a way for it to be falsifiable and demonstrated. There is no difference between your idea that we have a mass-less soul and the idea that our soul is located in our heart. Can you demonstrate that we have a soul and that it is mass-less?Yes.
Trying to use science to explain a “massless soul” is sciencing wrongly.
we all believe things by faith, nearly all facts are unprovable, science...unverifiable and uprovable, nothing is for certain. So yes, he uses faith. But we all do. Science does. Think about it this way, when they make a scientific hypothesis, they write down their observations and conclusions to their tests, how do you know they did it accurately? How do you know they were not fudging the numbers to make the report look better? How do you know they didn't lie? You don't. You just take their word for it. Even peer reviews, they are screened by a group of people. How do you know they are not biased? How do you know they peer review it accurately, and how do you know that if one person out of five that didn't like it, wouldn't change his mind to agree with the others? You don't. So again, we all have faith. It's just that Christians are the only ones who admit it in these forums.
Kylie I have been mentioning circumstantial evidence all of this time. See our souls are massless, therefore if they are to be judged logically, then it should be an eternal judgement. Because the soul is eternal because according to relativity time is critically tied to mass. Now this explains most of the eternality of hell. But there is a slight twist that needs to be made to this theory. That is that when we are resurrected and glorified and sent to Hell for our judgement, that our physical bodies are sent there too. So they have mass. So then they would not be able to be in a timelessness according to general relitivity at least. But I personally believe that beings in higher dimensions can come into our existence upon demand, and leave upon demand. Manifesting and dematerializing at will. And for this theory I compare 2D beings to 3D beings. See if you have a piece of paper with stick figures on it, you can start drawing another stick figure next to him, and to him, who only sees in 2D, that stick figure is coming out of nothing. You can draw a 2 dimensional house plan. And you can draw a stick figure in a locked house, behind closed doors. Because you have the extra dimension you have the freedom to create miracles in a 2D world. I think angels and demons, and ultimately our glorified bodies one day, will be in a higher dimension, and can do the same sort of miracles in a 3D world, that 3D beings could do in a 2D world. It's simply by adding a dimensional aspect to them. Time affects all mass, but if you are beyond the time domain, you have ability to go to the past or future in time, or to go to no time at all. That doesn't make sense to a 3D being, because we are bound by time, it is in a higher dimension that we are, so we are bound by it's affects. Just like a piece of paper is bound to your desk, until a 3D being or some outside force moves it. I wanted you to watch Dr quantum on youtube, and his video called flat lander. But I explained most of it. So anyway, I don't have proof of eternal hell, but it is the theory that makes most logical sense. You however don't have a theory at all that you are willing to debate. So I guess I can part ways, believing something is better than nothing.
Mocking only comes when there is no logic left in your arguments. Notice how I have not resorted to that. That is because I have a firm confidence of the logicality of my views. So hopefully other posters can see the difference between our arguments, emotional mocking and sound argumentation.I will not take your nonsense seriously if it’s something we’ve already been through, which this is. You usually bail out or lose track of our conversations whenever I engage you seriously, so this is what you’ll be getting from now on. If you have something new to put forward, by all means let’s discuss it, but I think I’ve seen all you have to offer.
So you understand the details of how global positioning systems work? Or because you have used it in the past as well as others you have faith that it will work the same way this time around? Yes you have faith in all walks of life, christians however are the only ones who admit it. Faith simply means trust.False equivocation.
Faith that my asthma medication will work and faith that my GPS is giving accurate results is a very different thing than faith in God.
But by all means, pretend the two are alike in what appears to be a "Well, science is just as bad as religion" way.
Then how do you explain all the near death experiences? I can post a video later of a cardiologist that watched 200 patients have various near death experiences. He says after 3 Minutes of death your brain still functions, so it is during those periods that people experience hell or heaven. I don't expect you to view this as proof, it's not. It's just eye witness account which can be wrong, but most likely not all of them at once are wrong. But yeah circumstantial evidence is the same evidence that convicts 90 percent of cold case criminals. Direct evidence in a cold case is rare, so they piece multiple samples of curcumstantial evidence that is subective and before a jury they decide the outcome. It does not probe anything as facts even cannot be proven for the most part. But eye witness testimony is a valid evidence. All our documented history is accounts of eye witnesses that documented what they saw.Yeah, that's not evidence, it's assumptions.
You assume that souls exist, you assume that Hell exists, you assume that hell operates by the same laws that we have here in this world, despite the fact that things can happen in the Hell you describe that are completely impossible in this world...
All you are doing is coming up with a fan theory that fits your assumptions and declaring it to be the truth.
My theory is that there is no souls, no hell. Just this world. And you have been unable to demonstrate that I'm wrong.
So you understand the details of how global positioning systems work? Or because you have used it in the past as well as others you have faith that it will work the same way this time around? Yes you have faith in all walks of life, christians however are the only ones who admit it. Faith simply means trust.
Then how do you explain all the near death experiences? I can post a video later of a cardiologist that watched 200 patients have various near death experiences. He says after 3 Minutes of death your brain still functions, so it is during those periods that people experience hell or heaven. I don't expect you to view this as proof, it's not. It's just eye witness account which can be wrong, but most likely not all of them at once are wrong. But yeah circumstantial evidence is the same evidence that convicts 90 percent of cold case criminals. Direct evidence in a cold case is rare, so they piece multiple samples of curcumstantial evidence that is subective and before a jury they decide the outcome. It does not probe anything as facts even cannot be proven for the most part. But eye witness testimony is a valid evidence. All our documented history is accounts of eye witnesses that documented what they saw.
sure they are. You have faith that the programmers and engineers of the GPS did their job correctly. You have faith that the radiation emitted from a GPS does not give you cancer of some kind. You have faith that just because 80-90 % of people who use GPS's are successful, that the next time you push the button it will turn on. That is the exact same faith I have, you actually have more faith in the GPS working than I do in God's existence. Because I can logically prove God's existence, but you cannot prove your GPS will work.And like I said, it's a completely different thing when used to talk about GPS working instead of God. Yet you seem to be trying to act like faith in GPS and faith in God are the same thing, just as valid as each other. They are not.
Oh, I fully trust that absolutely everyone can see the difference between you and me, gradyll. In fact, that’s exactly what I’m counting on when I choose not to directly counter your obviously false claims.Mocking only comes when there is no logic left in your arguments. Notice how I have not resorted to that. That is because I have a firm confidence of the logicality of my views. So hopefully other posters can see the difference between our arguments, emotional mocking and sound argumentation.
sure they are. You have faith that the programmers and engineers of the GPS did their job correctly.
You have faith that the radiation emitted from a GPS does not give you cancer of some kind.
You have faith that just because 80-90 % of people who use GPS's are successful, that the next time you push the button it will turn on. That is the exact same faith I have, you actually have more faith in the GPS working than I do in God's existence. Because I can logically prove God's existence, but you cannot prove your GPS will work.
check more about proving God's existence here:
Argument for God's existence.
and take the challenge to debate it if you wish.
by mocking instead? And that is supposed to make people respect you? Go ahead see how that works out.Oh, I fully trust that absolutely everyone can see the difference between you and me, gradyll. In fact, that’s exactly what I’m counting on when I choose not to directly counter your obviously false claims.
Look up Dunning Kruger.That is because I have a firm confidence of the logicality of my views.
well there are several assumptions here. How do you know that map is correct, did you walk it out and verify it? I am talking about all of it, not just your usual routes, because that is how a GPS works. IT usually takes off the beaten path. Secondly, how do you know it calculated your route correctly? Did you verify it by external unbiased and provable source? Or do you have faith that the last time you used it it worked out ok? And you confirm that you have faith later, "I can tell they're accurate directions because I end up at the place I am trying to get to." So you trust it. You have faith in it. Trust is faith remember that.The fact that it currently shows me on the map at my actual location tends to suggest that it is working correctly. I mean, if it was not working correctly, what are the chances it would just happen to randomly show me at my actual address? Wouldn't it show me in the middle of Paris or something? And when I rely on it for directions to get to a location, it gives me accurate directions. I can tell they're accurate directions because I end up at the place I am trying to get to.
actually some schools forbid cell phone use because of this very thing, hospitals, airports and other sensitive areas too. It is well documented about cell phone radiation. Wifi is worse, but the new 5G is nearly as bad. Here is one document, but there are several peer reviews, I will find later: Multiple Countries Ban Wifi & Cell Phones Around Schools, Young Children & FetusesI use Google maps on my phone as my gps. There is no reliable evidence that mobile phone radiation poses any health risk to humans.
Cell Phones and Cancer Risk Fact SheetAnd given that there are literally millions of people using them, and have been using them for several decades now, there should be a huge spike in the numbers of a particular type of cancer in mobile phone users, shouldn't there?
now this is not what you said earlier, you quoted a govenrnment site that said microwave radiation was harmless. But I showed a peer review showing otherwise. You are correct here however, the closer to the head the phone is the more radiation you get. Likewise with a microwave.In any case, the inverse square law shows that the amount of radiation a person is exposed to drops dramatically when the phone is away from the body. I generally keep my phone in my bag, or in a mount on my car's windscreen when I'm using it as a gps. As such, the amount of radiation I get (which is pretty harmless to begin with) drops to about 1%. 10 ways to avoid radiation from your gadgets - babulous - Medium
yes and each time you do it, you are trusting that it will do it again. One time I turned on my GPS, it didn't turn on at all. But I had faith it would, and my faith was wrong. Yes I can say that God exists empirically based on evidence that I know is true, and relay able to anyone who wants, even a child could understand.Are you kidding?
I have turned my gps app on hundreds of times, and my mobile phone even more often. I am constantly performing a specific action which reliably produces a specific result. Can you say the same about God? If so, give an example. What specific action do you take and what specific result from God do you get? How reliable is it?
just reply to post one.Yeah, that thread is 94 pages, I'm not going to read through all that.
But if you like, tag me in that thread with any specific argument for God that you like, and I'll debate the validity of that argument with you.
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