Where does "allah" say...

[beamishboy]

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when will you stop to distort the real words of quran ?

as long as you change the words , i will not respond to you .
but i should at least to warn the readers

Sometimes I wonder if you really know Arabic. You claim he distorts the real words of the Quran but what I can see is that he quotes the real Arabic words whereas you can only seem to write in English.

Who do you think a fair-minded reader will believe? I assure you that it is clear to me that whenever applepie7 goes into the real Arabic, all the Muslims seem to cry "foul". Why? Because applepie7 knows and can quote Arabic and can go into the real Arabic of the Quran whereas the Muslims can't? Why is that so? If that is so, why should I believe someone who doesn't go into the real Arabic? Why should I not believe applepie7 who is clearly the only Islamic scholar here and the only one who knows Arabic?

Forget translations. Go into the original Arabic as applepie7 has done. If you can't or do not know Arabic, please say so.

 

[ApplePie7]

2 - We have sent it down as an Arabic Quran, in order that ye may learn wisdom.​

​

No sign of divine inspiration here...​

3 - We do relate unto thee that most beautiful of stories, in that we reveal to thee this (portion of the) Quran: before this, thou too was among those who knew it not.​

No sign of divine inspiration here, either…

7 - Thus have We sent by inspiration to thee an Arabic Quran: That thou mayest warn the Mother of Cities and all around her, and warn (them) of the Day of Assembly, of which there is no doubt: (when) some will be in the Garden, and some in the Blazing Fire.

​

No sign of divine inspiration here, either…

163 - We have sent thee inspiration, as we sent it to Noah and the messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David we gave the psalms.

​

No sign of divine inspiration here, either…

105 - We have sent down to thee(o'moahammed) the book in truth, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by God: so be not (used) as an advocate by those who betray their trust;

​

Not even the word "Muhammad" appears in the Arabic....hence, the parenthesis...to artificially force it...

34 - We have already sent down to you verses making things clear, an illustration from (the story of) people who passed away before you, and an admonition for those who fear (God).

​

No sign of divine inspiration here, either…

47 - And thus (it is) that We have sent down the Book to thee. So the People of the Book believe therein, as also do some of these (Pagan Arabs): and none but Unbelievers reject Our Signs.
48 - And thou(o'mohammed) wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (Able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.
49 - Nay, here are Signs self evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
50 - Yet they say: Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord? Say: The Signs are indeed with God: and i am indeed a clear Warner.​

51 - And is it not enough for them that We have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and a Reminder to those who believe.​

Again..."Muhammad" does not appear in the text.

Neither does the text state that the Koran was "divinely inpired".....by anyone....certainly not "allah"...

 

[ApplePie7]

Salam.Good question you have asked."three what?" As we read it doesn't say "three Gods" or another association which is related to the number three.It just says "three".This can be aplied to every kind of shirk/association/polytheism that are made about three.This verse can pretty be interpreted as "don't say three persons" since in the mainstream Christianity there are three persons of God.It says Allah-as one Person-is only God, not God the Father.You seem to me someone who is well knowledged about Quran,technically.You should have realized this style of Quran before.Quran generalizes the blesphemies most of the time.But I think this verse directly refuses your Trinity.

The Food:17 Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah has power over all things.

This passage doe not refute the Biblical Trinity....as there are numerous Koranic ayahs which proclaim the virtues of the Trinity...

 

[ApplePie7]

Sometimes I wonder if you really know Arabic. You claim he distorts the real words of the Quran but what I can see is that he quotes the real Arabic words whereas you can only seem to write in English.

Who do you think a fair-minded reader will believe? I assure you that it is clear to me that whenever applepie7 goes into the real Arabic, all the Muslims seem to cry "foul". Why? Because applepie7 knows and can quote Arabic and can go into the real Arabic of the Quran whereas the Muslims can't? Why is that so? If that is so, why should I believe someone who doesn't go into the real Arabic? Why should I not believe applepie7 who is clearly the only Islamic scholar here and the only one who knows Arabic?

Forget translations. Go into the original Arabic as applepie7 has done. If you can't or do not know Arabic, please say so.

Great point Beamishboy...

Brother Elwill is not a serious student of his book of faith, as we can tell.

Yesterday's trash gets more attention than the Arabic that he is basing his salvation upon...

What a sad situation...

 

[beamishboy]

Great point Beamishboy...

Brother Elwill is not a serious student of his book of faith, as we can tell.

Yesterday's trash gets more attention than the Arabic that he is basing his salvation upon...

What a sad situation...

I think it's very sad because obviously, today's Arabs can't understand the Quran even though it's in Arabic. I think it's a bit like I can't understand Beowulf even though it's written in Old English or Anglo-Saxon. Beowulf is totally Greek to me (I probably can understand Classical Greek better because I study it at school). I understand better now. It's like I'm arguing with someone about Beowulf and he knows Old English even though he's not English and I can't go round claiming to know Beowulf because I'm English.

 

[ApplePie7]

I think it's very sad because obviously, today's Arabs can't understand the Quran even though it's in Arabic. I think it's a bit like I can't understand Beowulf even though it's written in Old English or Anglo-Saxon. Beowulf is totally Greek to me (I probably can understand Classical Greek better because I study it at school). I understand better now. It's like I'm arguing with someone about Beowulf and he knows Old English even though he's not English and I can't go round claiming to know Beowulf because I'm English.

Exactly...!

Muslims claim that the Koran can only be understood in the Arabic...and yet, when the Arabic is presented, they run away and cry foul...

We can see how easily their Islamic defences fold when tested....

 

[mala]

nevermind

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Once again AppliePie7 & beamishboy are talking to each other.

 

[elwill]

Sometimes I wonder if you really know Arabic.

I'M FROM EGYPT

You claim he distorts the real words of the Quran but what I can see is that he quotes the real Arabic words whereas you can only seem to write in English.

it will not bother me if he distort it in the arabic , because no one here speaks arabic

i'm talking about distortion of english translations of the quran , he distort the translation , he write wrong translation to proof his view
it's not the first time he do that , he always distort the translation and since few months some christians members themselfs observed what he do and they attacked him for that

Who do you think a fair-minded reader will believe? I assure you that it is clear to me that whenever applepie7 goes into the real Arabic, all the Muslims seem to cry "foul". Why? Because applepie7 knows and can quote Arabic and can go into the real Arabic of the Quran whereas the Muslims can't? Why is that so? If that is so, why should I believe someone who doesn't go into the real Arabic? Why should I not believe applepie7 who is clearly the only Islamic scholar here and the only one who knows Arabic?

Forget translations. Go into the original Arabic as applepie7 has done. If you can't or do not know Arabic, please say so.

beamishboy , ask him if he can dapate with me in pure arabic language for a while , if he accept the challenge , i'm ready
he will depate with me by arabic and english translation of what he said and the same with me

are you ready applepie7 ?

 

[Islam_mulia]

beamishboy , ask him if he can dapate with me in pure arabic language for a while , if he accept the challenge , i'm ready
he will depate with me by arabic and english translation of what he said and the same with me

are you ready applepie7 ?

I support the idea of this debate. That way, we can see how well Apple Pie knows his Arabic.

 

[beamishboy]

Hey folks!!!

It doesn't make sense to have a whole debate in Arabic. Is that what you are suggesting? Let's be clear: almost everyone doesn't understand a word. 99.999% of Muslims in CF don't understand Arabic.

It's far better to have the debate in a common language in which everyone can read. But the quotations of the Quran should be in Arabic since we all agree that the original Quran is in Arabic.

Parties can then dissect each Arabic word and contrast it according to how it's been used in ancient Arabia.

Elwill, I have been to Egypt. You are very fortunate to live in such a beautiful country. I went there with my parents and it's just too beautiful for words.

You guys can have the debate and the beamishboy will sit on his magic carpet and observe everything and take the occasional puff from his hookah pipe as he sips mint tea. Go ahead folks!!!

 

[elwill]

It's far better to have the debate in a common language in which everyone can read. But the quotations of the Quran should be in Arabic since we all agree that the original Quran is in Arabic.

that is what i'm talking about .
all i said that he distort quran in this common language , he add words not exist in original arabic quran and change others .
changes he made in the translations is very little but it's enough to change the original meaning of the quran

if you want for me to give you sites about quran in english to check it by yourself and to see how applepie7 distort it , you ae wellcome

Parties can then dissect each Arabic word and contrast it according to how it's been used in ancient Arabia.

i waiting his response to my challenge , so we will see how good he is in the complex language as arabic

Elwill, I have been to Egypt. You are very fortunate to live in such a beautiful country. I went there with my parents and it's just too beautiful for words.

i'm happy to hear that from you , i hope you spent good time there
and thank you for the COMPLIMENT

 

[GeorgeTwo]

Salam.Good question you have asked."three what?" As we read it doesn't say "three Gods" or another association which is related to the number three.It just says "three".This can be aplied to every kind of shirk/association/polytheism that are made about three.This verse can pretty be interpreted as "don't say three persons" since in the mainstream Christianity there are three persons of God.It says Allah-as one Person-is only God, not God the Father.You seem to me someone who is well knowledged about Quran,technically.You should have realized this style of Quran before.Quran generalizes the blesphemies most of the time.But I think this verse directly refuses your Trinity.

The Food:17 Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely, Allah-- He is the Messiah, son of Marium. Say: Who then could control anything as against Allah when He wished to destroy the Messiah son of Marium and his mother and all those on the earth? And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them; He creates what He pleases; and Allah has power over all things.

I think that is what Muslims would like it to say, "don't say three persons," but that is not what it says. Let's look at the following verse:

"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).

It seems that Allah's explanation as to why Jesus could not be the Word of God incarnate is because Jesus had to eat food and notice that Allah also mentions Mary had to eat food. Why would Allah say that? Because he did not understand that Christians believe that Jesus is 100% human (and Mary?). Allah's explanation shows his misunderstanding of what the Trinity is.

John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made


14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[d] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.


How did Allah create? By his word. He SPOKE and it was.


God's speaking voice is not another God; it IS God. Same with God's Spirit, not another God, but the Spirit of the one God.

 

[ApplePie7]

Hey folks!!!

It doesn't make sense to have a whole debate in Arabic. Is that what you are suggesting? Let's be clear: almost everyone doesn't understand a word. 99.999% of Muslims in CF don't understand Arabic.

It's far better to have the debate in a common language in which everyone can read. But the quotations of the Quran should be in Arabic since we all agree that the original Quran is in Arabic.

Parties can then dissect each Arabic word and contrast it according to how it's been used in ancient Arabia.

Elwill, I have been to Egypt. You are very fortunate to live in such a beautiful country. I went there with my parents and it's just too beautiful for words.

You guys can have the debate and the beamishboy will sit on his magic carpet and observe everything and take the occasional puff from his hookah pipe as he sips mint tea. Go ahead folks!!!

Correct Beamishboy...

If we wanted to debate in Arabic, then we would have entered an Arabic only forum.

However, this is an English forum, and any debate should be in English as much as possible.

 

[elwill]

Correct Beamishboy...

If we wanted to debate in Arabic, then we would have entered an Arabic only forum.

However, this is an English forum, and any debate should be in English as much as possible.

so what ?
are you refuse my challenge ?
i just give you the chance to proof for beamishboy and for me that you experience in arabic language
this is english forum , so that we will translate our arabic conversation for them
it's just for a while , i just wanna to convince that you know arabic language
hmmmmmmmmmmm , what you say ?

 

[ApplePie7]

so what ?
are you refuse my challenge ?
i just give you the chance to proof for beamishboy and for me that you experience in arabic language
this is english forum , so that we will translate our arabic conversation for them
it's just for a while , i just wanna to convince that you know arabic language
hmmmmmmmmmmm , what you say ?

…. اختر كلمة​

والسماء والطارق وما أدريك ما الطارق النجم الثاقب إن كل نفس لما عليها حافظ فلينظر الإنسن مم خلق خلق من ماء دافق يخرج من بين الصلب والترائب إنه على رجعه لقادر يوم تبلى السرائر فما له من قوةولا ناصر والسماء ذات الرجع والأرض ذات الصدع إنه لقول فصل وما هو بالهزل إنهم يكيدون كيدا​

 

[beamishboy]

Wow, you could almost hear a pin drop. Everyone is now silent. I've stared at the squigglies but I still can't make head or tail of them. Hehe.

 

[elwill]

I think that is what Muslims would like it to say, "don't say three persons," but that is not what it says. Let's look at the following verse:

"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!" (5:75).

again this verse don't explain the trinity , why do you insist that any verse mentioned beliefs of christianity about mary and jesus meant trinity
quran not explain the trinity in , quran just refused it without explaination (i think that christians themselfs don't know what trinity really is ) no offense
this is another verse which refused trinity beliefs

(72. Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah [`Isa], son of Maryam.'' But the Messiah said: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.''
Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the wrongdoers there are no helpers.)

(73. Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "god is the third of three.'' (God comment) And there is no god but One God (Allah). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall on the disbelievers among them.)
(74. Will they not repent to Allah and ask His forgiveness For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.)

(75. The Messiah [`Isa], son of Maryam, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam] was a Siddiqah. They both used to eat food. Look how We make the Ayat clear to them; yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth).

in the last verse he didn't explain the trinity concept , he explain the nature of jesus (pbuh) , there are many interpretations for quran , you will never find anyone or any scholar understood this verse to be refering to trinity concept

It seems that Allah's explanation as to why Jesus could not be the Word of God incarnate is because Jesus had to eat food and notice that Allah also mentions Mary had to eat food. Why would Allah say that? Because he did not understand that Christians believe that Jesus is 100% human (and Mary?). Allah's explanation shows his misunderstanding of what the Trinity is.

Jesus and Mary used to eat food, and as a result the waste product of food had to get out through answering the call of nature. Does this nature fit to be worshiped?
he mentioned mary with jesus here because some sects of christianity are worships mary

 

[elwill]

…. اختر كلمة​

والسماء والطارق وما أدريك ما الطارق النجم الثاقب إن كل نفس لما عليها حافظ فلينظر الإنسن مم خلق خلق من ماء دافق يخرج من بين الصلب والترائب إنه على رجعه لقادر يوم تبلى السرائر فما له من قوةولا ناصر والسماء ذات الرجع والأرض ذات الصدع إنه لقول فصل وما هو بالهزل إنهم يكيدون كيدا​

wow , you didn't make one sentence in arabic
you just copied the verse from quran , which you can copy from any site ?
and you ask me to choose the word , so that you can use you dictionary

no applepie , i wanna from you to argue with me in arabic , not to copy verses of quran in arabic , and fools the people with arabic letters you copied from sites

let us start with your post no 35

يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله​

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله​

وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله​

ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله​

إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في ​

السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا​

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladunlahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son,truly his what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.

let us take these verses line by line , translate for me as a start the first line

 

[ApplePie7]

wow , you didn't make one sentence in arabic
you just copied the verse from quran , which you can copy from any site ?
and you ask me to choose the word , so that you can use you dictionary

no applepie , i wanna from you to argue with me in arabic , not to copy verses of quran in arabic , and fools the people with arabic letters you copied from sites

You were just given circa 58 opportunities to show us your understanding of the classic Arabic of your book of faith.

You declined.

let us start with your post no 35
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let us take these verses line by line , translate for me as a start the first line

You just posted our translation.

Where is yours…..?