where does all the matter come from?

[huggybear]

i would like to know how atheistic evolution explains how and where all the matter in the universe came from, big bang theory states that the universe exploded out from an infintismal point into what it is today, is that the best they have got,?

i mean i know that living things grow,but what about all the rock/minerals/water and everything else, it seems to me that people rule out the idea of god too soon ,because they dont have the answers,

big bang theory states that everything just exploded out of some infinitismal point,whatever that is, that sounds to me to be just a supernatural a belief as believing in god , am i wrong?

 

[plindboe]

i would like to know how atheistic evolution explains how and where all the matter in the universe came from, big bang theory states that the universe exploded out from an infintismal point into what it is today, is that the best they have got,?

The theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory are two completely different theories, and they have nothing to do with atheism.

i mean i know that living things grow,but what about all the rock/minerals/water and everything else, it seems to me that people rule out the idea of god too soon ,because they dont have the answers,

Accepting the theories doesn't rule out God.

big bang theory states that everything just exploded out of some infinitismal point,whatever that is, that sounds to me to be just a supernatural a belief as believing in god , am i wrong?

Yes. First of all it wasn't an explosion, but an expansion of space itself. Second of all, that the theory violates your own common sense, doesn't invalidate it, given the fact that you are a fallible human being like the rest of us. Thirdly, the theory describes the natural world and is supported by a wealth of evidence, and is therefore a far cry from supernatural belief systems.

I advice you to learn about a subject before critizising it. Wikipedia is a good place to start.

Peter

 

[huggybear]

The theory of evolution and the Big Bang theory are two completely different theories, and they have nothing to do with atheism.




Accepting the theories doesn't rule out God.




Yes. First of all it wasn't an explosion, but an expansion of space itself. Second of all, that the theory violates your own common sense, doesn't invalidate it, given the fact that you are a fallible human being like the rest of us. Thirdly, the theory describes the natural world and is supported by a wealth of evidence, and is therefore a far cry from supernatural belief systems.

I advice you to learn about a subject before critizising it. Wikipedia is a good place to start.

Peter

yes you are right, you are not religous about your beliefs, because you see that the theorys dont rule out god,god covers different territory , i take it you dont believe in god because the theory violates your common sense,but as you said that doesnt make it true either,
i believe in the big bang, but the theory you talk about if you are not talking about evolution is not suppoted by a wealth of evidence, it does not even address it, and that is the question of how and where did all the matter in the universe come from originally, that is at the heart of everything ,and some deep thought about space and time and eternity reveals some amazing conundrums for everything we are told about the universe

 

[plindboe]

yes you are right, you are not religous about your beliefs, because you see that the theorys dont rule out god,god covers different territory

Agreed. But in my experience most atheists would say the same.

, i take it you dont believe in god because the theory violates your common sense,but as you said that doesnt make it true either,

Rather I'd say that I don't believe because I've never seen any evidence I've found convincing.

i believe in the big bang, but the theory you talk about if you are not talking about evolution is not suppoted by a wealth of evidence, it does not even address it, and that is the question of how and where did all the matter in the universe come from originally, that is at the heart of everything ,and some deep thought about space and time and eternity reveals some amazing conundrums for everything we are told about the universe

There aren't any scientific theories about first cause. The best anyone can honestly say is that they don't know, that include theists as well.

Peter

 

[solarwave]

There aren't any scientific theories about first cause. The best anyone can honestly say is that they don't know, that include theists as well.

Theists have an explaintion of the universe which is God, which, since it is no less likely there is a God, i think puts theism on good ground since they at least have an explaination. (I know the fact that that doesn't make it right).

 

[Vene]

Theists have an explaintion of the universe which is God, which, since it is no less likely there is a God, i think puts theism on good ground since they at least have an explaination. (I know the fact that that doesn't make it right).

But without evidence, it's quite meaningless. I can offer an explanation, doesn't mean that it's anywhere near close. If you can provide evidence that a deity was responsible for the big bang I'll accept it. But, what you asserted is absolutely meaningless in science. I may as well say that all the matter came from another dimension where the law of conservation of matter doesn't apply. See, it's an explanation too. We're back on common ground.

 

[plindboe]

Theists have an explaintion of the universe which is God, which, since it is no less likely there is a God, i think puts theism on good ground since they at least have an explaination. (I know the fact that that doesn't make it right).

"God did it" has as much evidence going for it as "Fred Flintstone did it". Since people can offer an infinite number of unevidenced suggestions, the probability of any single one of them being true will be practically zero. Until the day we find evidence, there's no point in considering any of these suggestions, other than for mindless entertainment perhaps.

Peter

 

[Psudopod]

Theists have an explaintion of the universe which is God, which, since it is no less likely there is a God, i think puts theism on good ground since they at least have an explaination. (I know the fact that that doesn't make it right).

The problem with God as an explanation is that he isn't really much of one. It doesn't really explain how things happened, just why. It's important, but it's a different question. There are theories on the origins of the universe (goes way over my head, so I won't go into details), but the biggest problem is that when they make predections, we cannot test them, often because our instuments aren't sensitive enough yet. There's also the problem of getting you head round what happens before the start of time.

I think in this case I don't know and God are answers to different questions.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

i would like to know how atheistic evolution explains how and where all the matter in the universe came from,

It doesn't. Atheism is the lack of belief in deities, and common descent (which I assume you meant by 'evolution') is the theory that all terrestrial life is descended from a single common ancestor.

big bang theory states that the universe exploded out from an infintismal point into what it is today, is that the best they have got,?

No. The Big Bang was an expansion of the spacetime continuum, not an explosion. An explosion is the rapid decompression of high internal pressure into lower external pressure (consider the enormous pressure of a bomb at the moment of detonation). Since the Big Bang didn't have anything to expand into, it wasn't an explosion.

But in any case, the Big Bang theory explains what happen after the 'explosion'; where did the matter and energy come from? Well, the best explanation I have heard is one involving 26-brane collisions, string theory, super-symmetry, and quantum fluctuations.

big bang theory states that everything just exploded out of some infinitismal point,whatever that is, that sounds to me to be just a supernatural a belief as believing in god , am i wrong?

Yes. As has been stated by others here, the Big Bang theory is not a supernatural belief on par with theism since it is just that: a theory. It is a series of presuppositions supported by evidence. Suffice to say, 'goddidit' is not.

 

[solarwave]

But without evidence, it's quite meaningless. I can offer an explanation, doesn't mean that it's anywhere near close. If you can provide evidence that a deity was responsible for the big bang I'll accept it. But, what you asserted is absolutely meaningless in science. I may as well say that all the matter came from another dimension where the law of conservation of matter doesn't apply. See, it's an explanation too. We're back on common ground.

Personally I think it would be hard to give evidence for an act that occured before time. Science isn't the only field of meaning, there are other things that give meaningful points. Like you cannot prove using science that you (as an example) said ''hi'' to someone yesterday; science only deals with experimental data, and that you can't experiment. Historical evidence is one thing, also logic. I would say that the fact that there is no evidence for what made the big bang, there are theorys, but none proven so far. I can give points for why God is real, but no one can give points for where the universe came from scientifically.

The problem with God as an explanation is that he isn't really much of one. It doesn't really explain how things happened, just why.

I would say God gives a why and a how. It happened because of God through His will. If you want a how at some point it will have to be down to God.

Yes. As has been stated by others here, the Big Bang theory is not a supernatural belief on par with theism since it is just that: a theory. It is a series of presuppositions supported by evidence. Suffice to say, 'goddidit' is not.

The big bang theory has evidence, but so far, the reason for it, there is none backed up by evidence.

Solarwave

 

[True_Blue]

Ok, can anyone please answer the thread's question of where all the matter in the universe came from via the Big Bang theory?

 

[sbvera13]

Question: Where did the matter come from?

Atheist answer: It was just there.

Christian Answer: That's ridiculous! You can't get something from nothing! That means God made it.

Atheist question: Where did god come from?

Christian: He was just there.

Atheist:

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Ok, can anyone please answer the thread's question of where all the matter in the universe came from via the Big Bang theory?

No: the Big Bang theory states that, ~13.7 billion years ago, all matter, energy, and indeed spacetime itself, was confined in a volume far smaller than a subatomic particle. Spacetime then expanded in a rather complicted and not entirely understood manner. This expansion is known as the Big Bang.

Common descent explains why life is they way it is, not where it came from. Likewise, the Big Bang theory does not attempt to explain where the everything came from, only why it is the way it is.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The big bang theory has evidence, but so far, the reason for it, there is none backed up by evidence.

Which is something physicists are looking into. If there weren't gaps in our knowledge, there wouldn't be hundreds of scientific journals printed weekly.

 

[trivista]

i would like to know how atheistic evolution explains how and where all the matter in the universe came from, big bang theory states that the universe exploded out from an infintismal point into what it is today, is that the best they have got,?

i mean i know that living things grow,but what about all the rock/minerals/water and everything else, it seems to me that people rule out the idea of god too soon ,because they dont have the answers,

big bang theory states that everything just exploded out of some infinitismal point,whatever that is, that sounds to me to be just a supernatural a belief as believing in god , am i wrong?

Again. The theory of evolution doesn't cover the origin of life, the universe or your favorite flammable substance used to burn science books.

 

[Open]

An excellent question!

My limited reading would indicate that it is a matter not understood by science.
I certainly remember when reading Dawkin’s ‘The God Delusion’ this question was not answered to my satisfaction.

I have done a little more digging and would like to offer an alternative slant on this matter. Forgive the crudity and lack of science in my approach.

I cannot find the thread/article, however I have come across research which states that matter has been measured to appear and disappear out of nothing in empty space.
In physics we hear of positive and negative fields/charges/forces etc.
I understand that if energy/matter in its simplest form (sub atomic) can appear/disappear spontaneously, then there is no reason why if some of such matter remains how over time it could not gain mass with other such particles. Thus explaining mass, but not to the level of that required for the Big bang.

The Big bang, this may be the beginning of the universe as we know it.

I would suggest that perhaps in the past much as a collapsing star all/much of the energy in the universe collapsed in on itself and then exploded (like a supernova) giving us the expanding universe as we see today.

Indeed, there is no reason to think that this is the first such universe or that there are not other parallel universes. (Like the one I inhabit at times).


I wonder is there anyone out there who has access to information on sub atomic particles and their spontaneous appearance/disappearance etc.. Something a lay man can understand.
Sorry, I just don’t have the time this weekend…

 

[solarwave]

I cannot find the thread/article, however I have come across research which states that matter has been measured to appear and disappear out of nothing in empty space.
In physics we hear of positive and negative fields/charges/forces etc.
I understand that if energy/matter in its simplest form (sub atomic) can appear/disappear spontaneously, then there is no reason why if some of such matter remains how over time it could not gain mass with other such particles. Thus explaining mass, but not to the level of that required for the Big bang.

From what I have read particles appear and disappear from a quantum vaccum, which we might consider nothing, but is different from complete nothingness like before the universe. As these particles destroy them selfs as soon as they appear.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

From what I have read particles appear and disappear from a quantum vaccum, which we might consider nothing, but is different from complete nothingness like before the universe. As these particles destroy them selfs as soon as they appear.

Not always. Hawking radiation is where these particle-antiparticle pairs are torn apart at the edge of a black hole (one going into the event horizon, the other away). And the particles don't annihilate themselves, they are annihilated by interacting with their counterpart.

 

[RyanLeeParis]

It came from God. The Bible says in the beginning there was formless and emptiness, until God's Spirit moved upon the face of the deep. This was events before the Big Bang.

 

[necroforest]

It came from God. The Bible says in the beginning there was formless and emptiness, until God's Spirit moved upon the face of the deep. This was events before the Big Bang.

Where did god come from?