Where do you stand on the 2020 election

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

miamited said:
Hi zagzig,

Atty Gen. Barr has just jumped off of the Trump train. He says that the FBI, after looking into many issues and complaints has found no evidence of widespread fraud. So, there you have it. It has been looked into by, at least the greatest sleuths in the U.S., and nothing of importance has been found.

Now, I'm going to guess that you're not willing to accept that.

God bless,
ted

I can accept that. However, I can also accept that there are numerous people coming forward, even truck drivers that have stated that they drove ballets across state lines, which is a felony. Not to mention the Dominion employee and others that are coming forward. It's pretty easy for the people pulling the strings to threaten even the high up powerful people. Didn't one judge make a ruling, then change it back, then reverse it one more time? There is more beneath the surface than what people are accepting.

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

Archivist said:
If they are actual witnesses to a crime, why haven’t they been called on court? Why does Trump’s own Departmemt of Justoce say there was no massive fraud?

All these things take time. Have you not been watching?

Here is just one. There are numerous people coming forward with signed affidavits. The people listening are puppets. However when it gets to SCOTUS, the entire country will be exposed.

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

miamited said:
Hi zagzig,

You wrote:

Let me ask you. How many affidavits are there? I mean it is a fixed number. They are sheets of paper and can be counted. How many affidavits are there?

Let me ask you. Let's assume that there are at least 10. Do you know what those 10 affidavits are alleging? Remember, an affidavit from a witness is merely an alleging of something happening. Affidavits are then taken by an attorney into a courtroom and presented and then it is up to the court to decide on them. Just because someone has an affidavit, doesn't mean that some crime occurred or that someone is guilty. It is merely a sworn testimony of something that the affiant tells what they saw. Do you know what 10 of those affidavits are alleging?

You see, the reason I ask is because in a court case, the judge does get to see all applicable evidence that is contained in any affidavits that concerns a particular case. So far, every judge, whether he be a Republican, for which there have been many in these cases, or Democrat, has determined that the provided witness testimony does not meet any legal claim of fraud. Today, even Atty Gen. Barr has put out that there have not been any FBI or justice department investigations that have uncovered any fraud of any consequence.

So, I think you need to understand that this stack of affidavits and filings that Giuliani and Powell, et.al. are holding out to your face, but won't show you, judges have seen them! Judges have determined that there is no worthwhile legal merit in any one of them. Judges have said that most of these affidavits are merely sworn statements of what someone saw that they 'thought' might be some criminal behavior, but have turned out not to be.

The 'trump election fraud' team put out a phone number encouraging people across the nation to call with their fraud claims. Now come on. You've lived in this world long enough to know that such an effort to gain information from the public is going to be filled with the musings of a number of crack pots. From what I'm hearing, some of the claims did, at first, seem to have merit. But after checking them out and presenting the evidence, if it checked out to the courts, it's all been rejected.

I still keep hearing about the burning of ballots. That account has been soundly debunked. It was a stack of practice ballots that the elections office had used to train the actual ballot counters. To ensure that they were not somehow slipped back into the counting process, the local elections office thought they should be burned. And so they did. But it was not any kind of fraud or illegal activity. It was the burning of fake filled out ballots for the purpose of training counters. That's it!!!

So, put some facts where your mouth is. Explain to me what 10 of the affidavits claim.

God bless,
ted

There are over 800 affidavits.

tulc · Dec 2, 2020

ZagZig said:
You sure your not talking about the Left? I mean really, how many things have they said that didn't age well?

Were you here during the 10 Benghazi investigations? The 10th of which that came to the same conclusion as the first one.
Investigation into the 2012 Benghazi attack - Wikipedia.

Ten investigations were conducted into the 2012 Benghazi attack, six of these by Republican-controlled House committees. Problems were identified with security measures at the Benghazi facilities, due to poor decisions made by employees of the State Department's Bureau of Diplomatic Security, and specifically its director Eric Boswell, who resigned under pressure in December 2012.[1] Despite numerous allegations against Obama administration officials of scandal, cover-up and lying regarding the Benghazi attack and its aftermath, none of the ten investigations found any evidence to support those allegations.[2][3][4][5] The last of the investigation committees issued its final report and shut down in December of 2016, one month after the 2016 presidential election.[6][7][8]

Or you can look at the number of time Republicans have claimed "Massive voter fraud!" but can't ever seem to find any actual evidence of it.
The Last Time Trump Alleged Massive Fraud

Why not just look? What’s the harm?

This is the best case that President Donald Trump and his allies have for investigating claims of voter fraud in the 2020 election. Unfortunately for them, it’s still a very weak case. Republicans have for years been pushing claims of massive voter fraud that swings elections, and for just as long, they’ve failed to turn up evidence of it.

and the list goes on. The Republicans make claims, demand investigations and when those investigations don't prove what they want, they say there needs to be an investigation of the investigation and make the same claims again. That's because those claims aren't about reality or an interest "getting the facts" they're about "showing we're right and everyone else is wrong!!". So again I say "Why bother? It's not like an investigation is going to make any difference to Republicans, if it doesn't say what they want they'll just demand another investigation.".
tulc(wash, rinse, repeat)

Archivist · Dec 2, 2020

ZagZig said:
All these things take time. Have you not been watching?

Here is just one. There are numerous people coming forward with signed affidavits. The people listening are puppets. However when it gets to SCOTUS, the entire country will be exposed.

Sorry, I don’t watch this trash.

Georgia just finished another recount. It found no significant voter fraud.

Trump’s Attorney General has said that the Justice Department has found no significant voter fraud.

The former head for Homeland Security’s Cubersecuity Division said that was no widespread election fraud.

judges, many of them Republicans, some Trump appointees, have thrown out nemerous cases for lack of evidence.

How do you explain all this? The evidence isn’t there. You can post all the videos you want, it isn’t going to change that.

miamited · Dec 2, 2020

ZagZig said:
I can accept that. However, I can also accept that there are numerous people coming forward, even truck drivers that have stated that they drove ballets across state lines, which is a felony. Not to mention the Dominion employee and others that are coming forward. It's pretty easy for the people pulling the strings to threaten even the high up powerful people. Didn't one judge make a ruling, then change it back, then reverse it one more time? There is more beneath the surface than what people are accepting.

Hi zagzig,

Oh, let's not let stupid things like 'facts' get in the way of good tale. No, one judge did not make a ruling, then change it back, then reverse it one more time. However, I'll be standing by waiting for your supporting documentation.

God bless,
ted

miamited · Dec 2, 2020

Hi guys,

Well, I've read all the responses and it looks like we've about beat this dead horse to a pulp. I'm certainly willing to sit back and wait for all of this to play out. Hey, and if Trump does come back in 4 years, we can do it all again. Yeeeeehaw!!!

God bless,
ted

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

tulc said:
Were you here during the 10 Benghazi investigations? The 10th of which that came to the same conclusion as the first one.
Investigation into the 2012 Benghazi attack - Wikipedia.

Or you can look at the number of time Republicans have claimed "Massive voter fraud!" but can't ever seem to find any actual evidence of it.
The Last Time Trump Alleged Massive Fraud

and the list goes on. The Republicans make claims, demand investigations and when those investigations don't prove what they want, they say there needs to be an investigation of the investigation and make the same claims again. That's because those claims aren't about reality or an interest "getting the facts" they're about "showing we're right and everyone else is wrong!!". So again I say "Why bother? It's not like an investigation is going to make any difference to Republicans, if it doesn't say what they want they'll just demand another investigation.".
tulc(wash, rinse, repeat)

You seem to be someone dead set in your view. So be it. That is your right.

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

Archivist said:
Sorry, I don’t watch this trash.

Georgia just finished another recount. It found no significant voter fraud.

Trump’s Attorney General has said that the Justice Department has found no significant voter fraud.

The former head for Homeland Security’s Cubersecuity Division said that was no widespread election fraud.

judges, many of them Republicans, some Trump appointees, have thrown out nemerous cases for lack of evidence.

How do you explain all this? The evidence isn’t there. You can post all the videos you want, it isn’t going to change that.

You don't watch people testifying with penalty of prison on what they saw on the days of the election? You call that trash? Actual footage of people risking incarceration to tell their story?

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

miamited said:
Hi zagzig,

Oh, let's not let stupid things like 'facts' get in the way of good tale. No, one judge did not make a ruling, then change it back, then reverse it one more time. However, I'll be standing by waiting for your supporting documentation.

God bless,
ted

Check it out. First he ruled to stop the wiping of the memories of the dominion voting machines and resetting them to zero. Then, he did a 180 and rescinded that ruling.. then.... he switched again and ruled to not allow them to be wiped.

Georgia judge issues shockwave election ruling, then changes his mind twice

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

Thanks Gr8grace, for your support.

tulc · Dec 2, 2020

ZagZig said:
You seem to be someone dead set in your view. So be it. That is your right.

...and I also have shown my view is supported by multiple examples of why I believe it.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

ZagZig · Dec 2, 2020

tulc said:
...and I also have shown my view is supported by multiple examples of why I believe it.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

I don't know too many people who feel that their view is ever unsupported.

tulc · Dec 2, 2020

ZagZig said:
I don't know too many people who feel that their view is ever unsupported.

I posted two examples of times the Republicans conducted multiple investigations and each time they found nothing that was any different the 10th time than was found the 1st time. This is merely another attempt at that second example I gave. So I'd say my view doesn't just "feel" like it's supported, it actually is supported.
tulc(is drinking an excellent cup of coffee right now)

miamited · Dec 2, 2020

ZagZig said:
Check it out. First he ruled to stop the wiping of the memories of the dominion voting machines and resetting them to zero. Then, he did a 180 and rescinded that ruling.. then.... he switched again and ruled to not allow them to be wiped.

Georgia judge issues shockwave election ruling, then changes his mind twice

Hi zagzig,

OK. That article is news to me. It seems that various county elections boards wanted to clear the machines to prepare them for the upcoming runoff. However, the judge has temporarily put a hold on that effort. The first reversal was because the plaintiff brought their suit against the wrong defendant. A legal technicality, although a perfectly valid and, I think, correct call. The plaintiffs had sued the state, but apparently the counties have control over the various election machines that they use within their borders. The plaintiffs corrected their mistake, and the judge reverted to the original ruling. Nothing particularly mysterious about it.

However, this needs to be figured out before the upcoming runoff or the county or counties are going to have to obtain different machines for the runoff. Probably an expense they'd rather not have to incur for what I'm sure will turn out to be just a bogus complaint of no particular merit. Maybe they can dump the data onto some other device to preserve it for the 'trump election fraud' team.

Personally, I can't wait until 1/20/21 when this will likely all be over. Just a month and a half to go.

God bless,
ted

tulc · Dec 2, 2020

miamited said:
(snip)
Personally, I can't wait until 1/20/21 when this will likely all be over. Just a month and a half to go.

God bless,
ted

It's over Dec 14th. That's when the Electoral college meets and pronounces President elect Biden won. Jan 20th is when he takes the oath. So it's actually over in 12 days.
tulc(hopes that helps)

miamited · Dec 2, 2020

tulc said:
It's over Dec 14th. That's when the Electoral college meets and pronounces President elect Biden won. Jan 20th is when he takes the oath. So it's actually over in 12 days.
tulc(hopes that helps)

Hi tulc,

Well, there is now talk that congress can challenge the electoral votes. Knowing how very, very desperate Trump is to 'win' this thing, I'm not counting him out until they escort him out of the building.

How Trump’s Hill allies could take one last shot to overturn the election

...several House Republican lawmakers and aides now tell POLITICO they’re considering this option to aid Trump’s quest.

“Nothing is off the table,” said Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.).

According to the article, this challenge will take place on 1/6/21 or shortly thereafter.

God bless,
ted

Archivist · Dec 3, 2020

ZagZig said:
You don't watch people testifying with penalty of prison on what they saw on the days of the election? You call that trash? Actual footage of people risking incarceration to tell their story?

Penalty of prison? The testimony wasn’t in court. You didn’t address what I raised.

miamited · Dec 3, 2020

ZagZig said:
You don't watch people testifying with penalty of prison on what they saw on the days of the election? You call that trash? Actual footage of people risking incarceration to tell their story?

Hi zagzig,

Yeah, that just isn't what's going on. These are merely declaratory affidavits made in an attorney's office, or even just some mailed in sworn statements. There's no threat of jail for making them and anybody can do it. I mean, if there was any serious threat of jail, half the witnesses that gave sworn statements in every court case in the land would be in prison. We really couldn't hold all the American prisoners then. Some of them may even be just statements called in on the 800 'tell us your story' line. Remember, no one, but the 'trump election fraud' team have seen the bulk of these affidavits.

Remember the 'yuge' book of Trump's healthcare plan that was given to Leslie Stahl. She opened it up and leafed through it and her claim was that it was just a bunch of cobbled together records of EO's and other important documents regarding state matters. She says there was nothing in the book particularly concerning healthcare. That's how the dog and pony show works. They stand up in front of some camera giving some rant about all the fraud and then they hold up a stack of papers or they have them planted on their table next to them. When you go down through them it's just a bunch of miscellaneous papers that are stacked up neatly.

We've already had the reports of some who testified. Here's a real knee slapper: Rudy Attempts to Shush Unhinged ‘Witness’ During Election Fraud Hearing

This lady goes off on all kinds of claims. No registered voters listed in the counties poll book. Turn out rate over 120%. All just ludicrous claims that can be proven just aren't true. When asked what her job was with Dominion, she wasn't able to give a clear response as to her duties. The court deemed her testimony not credible. Even Giuliani tried to shush her as she began to ramble on about all these other myriad and unfounded complaints apart from the issue brought up by her affidavit.

So far, that's been the case of pretty much every witness. Several, when questioned about what they saw, don't even know the implications of what they saw, they just saw something that in their mind seemed curious. So they swore out an affidavit, but when cross examined, had no idea whether or not what they saw constituted any illegal activity. Like I say, and yes I understand that there are a lot of people who don't see it this way, but this, so far, seems to be nothing more than a great dog and pony show that the President of the United States is trying to put over on the American people.

We'll see.

God bless,
ted

ZagZig · Dec 3, 2020

miamited said:
Hi zagzig,

OK. That article is news to me. It seems that various county elections boards wanted to clear the machines to prepare them for the upcoming runoff. However, the judge has temporarily put a hold on that effort. The first reversal was because the plaintiff brought their suit against the wrong defendant. A legal technicality, although a perfectly valid and, I think, correct call. The plaintiffs had sued the state, but apparently the counties have control over the various election machines that they use within their borders. The plaintiffs corrected their mistake, and the judge reverted to the original ruling. Nothing particularly mysterious about it.

However, this needs to be figured out before the upcoming runoff or the county or counties are going to have to obtain different machines for the runoff. Probably an expense they'd rather not have to incur for what I'm sure will turn out to be just a bogus complaint of no particular merit. Maybe they can dump the data onto some other device to preserve it for the 'trump election fraud' team.

Personally, I can't wait until 1/20/21 when this will likely all be over. Just a month and a half to go.

God bless,
ted

I agree that the sooner this is solved the better. Were you aware of the fact that Rudy Giuliani and his team have over 1000 affidavits now? That is over 1000 people who are willing, under punishment of prison, to come forward and tell of their eyewitness accounts of many different types of voting fraud? From running stacks of ballets, all for Biden, through the voting machine over and over again... to dead people voting, to ballets that had two candidates selected ( which voids the ballet ) counted for Biden, to refusing to have the republican representative allowed to validate the ballets as they should? These people are having death threats, lost jobs, being humiliated and threatened.... why? Because they want Trump to win? No.. because they want the election to be legitimate. This will go to SCOTUS. There are already well known Rep. reps at all levels that have not liked Trump and these might as well be democrats now. Do you think that there is a fair chance at all for the lower courts and councils to do a forensic investigation? When they don't like Trump? It's not about whether or not the democrats like Trump.. or even if some of the republicans like Trump... It's about what the people of the USA want. The government works for the people. If the majority of the people of the USA voted for Biden, why the rush to wipe the machines? Why is the DOJ, FBI and CIA not investigating? People call for real evidence, then ignore it when it is right in their face.

Where do you stand on the 2020 election

Do you want a solid investigation into the election so truth can be shown either way?

I don't care, I just want to see my family for Christmas.

Biden won, lets investigate and prove it.

Trump won, lets investigate and prove it.

This should be forensically investigated and the criminals imprisioned.

Biden won, I don't want to investigate.

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