Where do you stand on the 2020 election

[ZagZig]

Then why aren’t these people being called as witnesses in courts of law? Trump’s lawyers have told judges that they have no evidence of election fraud.

Take a look.. they are now.

 

[Archivist]

Take a look.. they are now.

No, none of what you posted was in a court of law.

 

[ZagZig]

Thanks for all the votes so far. I am very encouraged by the fact that 47% are in favor of a good deep look at what is going on. I totally believe that if there is corruption, it will be exposed. No matter how many Democrats or republicans try to stop the reveal.

 

[ZagZig]

No, none of what you posted was in a court of law.

Not yet. However they are real people with eye witness accounts and signed affidavits. It's only a matter of time and legal procedure. Do you want that?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. But, if you don't vote.. who is choosing your leader? Did all those grandfathers and great uncles die for the right to vote... in vain?

Governments in general are a crystallization of worldly power, so they're evil regardless of the system.

In general, the people who died for our freedom did die in vain - today we are not free, the wealth brought about by many military victories and posturing has resulted in widespread materialism, and slavery to digital media. One part of the world has progressed while most of the world lies in poverty. Has anything good come from choosing the lesser of two evils? Axis, Allies etc - all throughout history.

No, evil can only birth evil - so we wait for a better country as did all in the faith before us.

 

[tulc]

People can continue to state such things as much as they like. However, If it is not true, stating it over and over doesn't make it true. Just because someone is louder or more forceful or more repetitive.. has no effect on the actual truth, whatever that is.

...the irony of this post? Off the scales. so, according to you, no matter how loud or insistent people are of there being "massive voter fraud" if they can't actually prove it that loudness and insistence has no effect on the truth. Which is there wasn't a "massive voter fraud".
tulc(is always glad to find things to agree with)

 

[tulc]

Not yet. However they are real people with eye witness accounts and signed affidavits. It's only a matter of time and legal procedure. Do you want that?

What we all want is for people to stop pretending their "We really REALLY want this to be true!!" is going to make it actually true. It's not. He lost, Joe Biden won. There wasn't a massive voter fraud, and this was all about President Trump making more money from his base before he has to leave office.
President Donald Trump raises more than $170 million since Election Day as he pushes baseless fraud claims - CNNPolitics

President Donald Trump and his political operation have raised more than $170 million since Election Day, a person familiar with the matter said -- a massive fundraising haul fueled by Trump's baseless allegations that the election was rigged.

The fundraising flowed into the coffers of Trump's joint fundraising committee in less than four weeks thanks to a barrage of fundraising solicitations to Trump's supporters, urging them to donate to an "Election Defense Fund" as the President hyped up conspiracy theories about a stolen election.
In reality, an increasingly large share of the funds have helped retire the Trump campaign's debt and fund the President's future political operation via a political action committee.
The Save America political action committee, which the President launched less than a week after Election Day, could fund his post-White House political life -- underwriting travel, staff and other functions, even if Trump never seeks public office again.

tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

 

[ZagZig]

Governments in general are a crystallization of worldly power, so they're evil regardless of the system.

In general, the people who died for our freedom did die in vain - today we are not free, the wealth brought about by many military victories and posturing has resulted in widespread materialism, and slavery to digital media. One part of the world has progressed while most of the world lies in poverty. Has anything good come from choosing the lesser of two evils? Axis, Allies etc - all throughout history.

No, evil can only birth evil - so we wait for a better country as did all in the faith before us.

But, God has used evil Kings to do his work, has he not? God does have a plan and he puts people in power doesn't he?

 

[ZagZig]

...the irony of this post? Off the scales. so, according to you, no matter how loud or insistent people are of there being "massive voter fraud" if they can't actually prove it that loudness and insistence has no effect on the truth. Which is there wasn't a "massive voter fraud".
tulc(is always glad to find things to agree with)

You might appreciate this then....

 

[ZagZig]

What we all want is for people to stop pretending their "We really REALLY want this to be true!!" is going to make it actually true. It's not. He lost, Joe Biden won. There wasn't a massive voter fraud, and this was all about President Trump making more money from his base before he has to leave office.
President Donald Trump raises more than $170 million since Election Day as he pushes baseless fraud claims - CNNPolitics

tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

I think everyone wants everyone to stop pretending what is true. It's just two sides of a coin. That's why there needs to be a deep investigation.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But, God has used evil Kings to do his work, has he not? God does have a plan and he puts people in power doesn't he?

God used Satan in his plan, and uses the man of perdition also.

It remains the same however, that the beast is destined for the BBQ of judgment.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I think everyone wants everyone to stop pretending what is true. It's just two sides of a coin. That's why there needs to be a deep investigation.

Yes, into Flat Earth also.

 

[tulc]

(snip) That's why there needs to be a deep investigation.

Why? It's not like Republicans aren't famous for multiple investigations that come up with the same answer every time and they insist on investigating it again. It's not a political issue any more, it's a need to explain to themselves why the guy they thought was "unstoppable and unbeatable!" was stopped. Was beaten. And since the reality is that he lost (in a landslide according to President Trump's 2016 reckoning) they have no choice but to seek out some other reason. And if evidence mattered in slightest they would have stopped pretending after the first 15 or 20 cases got thrown out for a lack of evidence. Now that it's passed over 30 cases? It's obvious reality and the facts have long since ceased to matter in the slightest about this subject. This is purely about not wanting to admit he lost. He lost to a guy who campaigned from his basement. And that's just way more than they are willing to face at this moment. So they create the myth of "massive voter fraud!" to explain it all away. So a "deep investigation" will accomplish nothing, because when it's over and the results are the same as when it started, they'll simply pretend it also was "part of the conspiracy!!" and insist another investigation start. Because it's not about the truth. Never has been.
tulc(needs more coffee)

 

[miamited]

You may be right. Time will tell. From what I have seen vote counters that were working on those days, are coming forward and giving eye witness accounts of many different types of fraudulent activity. I am encouraged by those that want the truth to be found. I am discouraged by those that just listen to the main stream media, that has been down on Trump from before he was even elected...and just want them to accept that Biden won... without looking into it.

Hi zagzig,

Atty Gen. Barr has just jumped off of the Trump train. He says that the FBI, after looking into many issues and complaints has found no evidence of widespread fraud. So, there you have it. It has been looked into by, at least the greatest sleuths in the U.S., and nothing of importance has been found.

Now, I'm going to guess that you're not willing to accept that.

God bless,
ted

 

[Archivist]

Not yet. However they are real people with eye witness accounts and signed affidavits. It's only a matter of time and legal procedure. Do you want that?

If they are actual witnesses to a crime, why haven’t they been called on court? Why does Trump’s own Departmemt of Justoce say there was no massive fraud?

 

[miamited]

Hi zagzig,

You wrote:

Not yet. However they are real people with eye witness accounts and signed affidavits.

Let me ask you. How many affidavits are there? I mean it is a fixed number. They are sheets of paper and can be counted. How many affidavits are there?

Let me ask you. Let's assume that there are at least 10. Do you know what those 10 affidavits are alleging? Remember, an affidavit from a witness is merely an alleging of something happening. Affidavits are then taken by an attorney into a courtroom and presented and then it is up to the court to decide on them. Just because someone has an affidavit, doesn't mean that some crime occurred or that someone is guilty. It is merely a sworn testimony of something that the affiant tells what they saw. Do you know what 10 of those affidavits are alleging?

You see, the reason I ask is because in a court case, the judge does get to see all applicable evidence that is contained in any affidavits that concerns a particular case. So far, every judge, whether he be a Republican, for which there have been many in these cases, or Democrat, has determined that the provided witness testimony does not meet any legal claim of fraud. Today, even Atty Gen. Barr has put out that there have not been any FBI or justice department investigations that have uncovered any fraud of any consequence.

So, I think you need to understand that this stack of affidavits and filings that Giuliani and Powell, et.al. are holding out to your face, but won't show you, judges have seen them! Judges have determined that there is no worthwhile legal merit in any one of them. Judges have said that most of these affidavits are merely sworn statements of what someone saw that they 'thought' might be some criminal behavior, but have turned out not to be.

The 'trump election fraud' team put out a phone number encouraging people across the nation to call with their fraud claims. Now come on. You've lived in this world long enough to know that such an effort to gain information from the public is going to be filled with the musings of a number of crack pots. From what I'm hearing, some of the claims did, at first, seem to have merit. But after checking them out and presenting the evidence, if it checked out to the courts, it's all been rejected.

I still keep hearing about the burning of ballots. That account has been soundly debunked. It was a stack of practice ballots that the elections office had used to train the actual ballot counters. To ensure that they were not somehow slipped back into the counting process, the local elections office thought they should be burned. And so they did. But it was not any kind of fraud or illegal activity. It was the burning of fake filled out ballots for the purpose of training counters. That's it!!!

So, put some facts where your mouth is. Explain to me what 10 of the affidavits claim.

God bless,
ted

 

[Arcangl86]

In a functional democracy the presumption is that elections are fair and free. That assumption imo stands unless there is strong evidence that something fraudulent happened, evidence that the Trump campaign has not been able to furnish. They have not even been able to get pass the pleading stage in the vast majority of their cases, which is the easy part.

 

[ZagZig]

God used Satan in his plan, and uses the man of perdition also.

It remains the same however, that the beast is destined for the BBQ of judgment.

As it should be...

 

[ZagZig]

Why? It's not like Republicans aren't famous for multiple investigations that come up with the same answer every time and they insist on investigating it again. It's not a political issue any more, it's a need to explain to themselves why the guy they thought was "unstoppable and unbeatable!" was stopped. Was beaten. And since the reality is that he lost (in a landslide according to President Trump's 2016 reckoning) they have no choice but to seek out some other reason. And if evidence mattered in slightest they would have stopped pretending after the first 15 or 20 cases got thrown out for a lack of evidence. Now that it's passed over 30 cases? It's obvious reality and the facts have long since ceased to matter in the slightest about this subject. This is purely about not wanting to admit he lost. He lost to a guy who campaigned from his basement. And that's just way more than they are willing to face at this moment. So they create the myth of "massive voter fraud!" to explain it all away. So a "deep investigation" will accomplish nothing, because when it's over and the results are the same as when it started, they'll simply pretend it also was "part of the conspiracy!!" and insist another investigation start. Because it's not about the truth. Never has been.
tulc(needs more coffee)

You sure your not talking about the Left? I mean really, how many things have they said that didn't age well?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

everything has a shelf life, all of man's inventions are subject to rust and decay.