Where do "you" begin and end?

Petros2015

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Hmm, well I hadn't seen it applied to the expansion rate before like that before
(but I hadn't spent a lot of time looking for things like this either, I like dice, so it caught my eye when it came up on feed).
I *could* play devil's advocate against it, and I'm a novice on the position; sounds like its one that you are familiar with and tired of. I think I'll just bid goodnight :)
 
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Petros2015

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You sounded almost Reformed there, for a second!

I'm sure I sound like a lot of things from time to time :)

Here - I'll sound like a Buddhist for a moment:

Well done is that action of doing which one repents not later, and the fruit of which one, reaps with delight and happiness.
So long as an evil deed has not ripened, the fool thinks it as sweet as honey. But when the evil deed ripens, the fool comes to grief.


I don't particularly know the nuances of what "Reformed" is - following that second, was there a second following that I stopped sounding Reformed?

I tend to believe that sin is more of a spiritual state; thoughts and actions are symptoms or natural progressions of our states. If you don't like the state or the progression, rescuing yourself is probably pretty near impossible. Rescues have to come from the outside. The first part of a rescue is realizing that there is even something to be rescued into; you don't know that until you meet something from the Outside - i.e. God had to intervene. People in the dark don't know what light looks like. People in Black and White don't know what Color looks like. People in 2 dimensions don't know what 3 dimensions looks like. I do believe some Christians have very definable "salvation moments" where it is like the polarity of a switch is flipped from negative to positive.

Both God and Sin are transformative, and in many ways "you are what you eat"* throughout life, even as what we have eaten determines what we will next eat. My personal experience is that it is more of a process, and my faith is that it will end well if it is a cooperative one in the right direction. I prefer a Holy Spirit to an Unholy one, having seen both.

*Come to think of it, that's probably part of why Christ had us eat Himself in the communion sacrament...

...Smart guy! (now that sounds like Vonnegut lol)

There may be some on this planet to whom Christianity "does not apply". There may be grace freely given unto those who never heard of Christ, or never met someone who called themselves a Christian, who actually carried the spirit of Christ, that actual thing from the Outside to see there was something to be rescued into, and something to be rescued from.

...I can only tell you I'm not one of them.
 
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Tom 1

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Lately I've been thinking of my interactions with other people, as floating brains interacting with other floating brains... So is that where we are, in our brains..? Or are we our whole body..? Or is it that we are spirit's who are the lord's of our bodies, and every little chemical and electric reaction in our brain is like our own universe, and our consciousness is like a god of that little world? Or perhaps we're all interconnected pieces of a larger human spirit.

You might like this: Fear of a Black Universe

And this: Issue 82: Panpsychism - Nautilus
 
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Hazelelponi

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Lately I've been thinking of my interactions with other people, as floating brains interacting with other floating brains... So is that where we are, in our brains..? Or are we our whole body..? Or is it that we are spirit's who are the lord's of our bodies, and every little chemical and electric reaction in our brain is like our own universe, and our consciousness is like a god of that little world? Or perhaps we're all interconnected pieces of a larger human spirit.

I think I am my heart - which is my soul. It guides my brain and my flesh in many ways making it the master of my body... it's a bit of a faulty master, so my heart chose a better one in Christ. :) (although to be sure He chose me first)..
 
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Hans Blaster

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Hmm, well I hadn't seen it applied to the expansion rate before like that before
(but I hadn't spent a lot of time looking for things like this either, I like dice, so it caught my eye when it came up on feed).
I *could* play devil's advocate against it, and I'm a novice on the position; sounds like its one that you are familiar with and tired of. I think I'll just bid goodnight :)

I think the video is getting on about what used to be known as the "flatness problem" in cosmology. (I too couldn't bring myself to finish this video, but it fits with the "expansion fine tuning" claim.)

In cosmology the overall shape of the Universe can be characterized as open, closed, or it can be flat. In a closed universe a straight line (a geodesic) will curve back upon itself eventually. In an open universe, two parallel lines will eventually diverge at great distance, whereas, in a flat universe they will remain parallel.

Another way to characterize this is the mass of the Universe. If the mass of the Universe is large (or rather the density, since the Universe may be infinite), then the expansion will slow, reverse, and the Universe will collapse back (the closed Universe). If the mass is low then it will never stop the expansion, and the Universe will expand forever. If the mass is juuussstt right, the expansion will come to a halt. Cosmologists express the ratio of the mass (density) of the Universe to the "flat density" as Omega. If Omega > 1 the Universe is close; if < 1 it is open.

A third way to express this would be the initial expansion rate (as the video apparently does). The faster the initial expansion, the more mass needed to be flat.

The equations that govern the expansion of the universe are so sensitive (and non-linear) that given the current expansion rate measured, the age and mass density that was know in the 1980s and early 90s, that the value of the expansion must have had an exquisitely narrow initial value or the Universe would be very different from what we saw. (This is precisely what I was taught when I had some formal cosmology in an UG class in the early 90s.) It was quite a problem given that the best ranges for Omega were about 0.1 to 0.3, not even close to flat. What gives?

In 1980, Alan Guth was working on a solution to a problem in theoretical high-energy particle physics, when he realized that his solution would have a great consequence for the early Universe. It would cause a very brief period of very rapid expansion. (The numbers involved are difficult to comprehend, the expansion is that large and that brief.) The expansion is so extreme that it would make the Universe look flat, no matter what the expansion rate after inflation was. It also explains the uniformity of the Universe in all directions. Inflationary cosmology also predicted that the cosmic microwave background (CMB) would be smooth and the scale (length and strength) of fluctuations. These were confirmed to increasing precision with satellite measurements of the CMB and CMB fluctuations reported in the mid-90s (COBE) and the 21st century (Planck & WMAP). There was some resistance early on in the astronomy and cosmology communities to inflationary cosmology because it seemed like a "magic fix" and most astronomers and cosmologist were not familiar with the particle physics problems that drove the discovery, but this has changed over 4 decades and new observational tests inflationary cosmology continue to be developed and made.

This argument has since fallen to those who try to argue against modern cosmology for non-scientific reasons.
 
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Mark Quayle

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I'm sure I sound like a lot of things from time to time :)

Here - I'll sound like a Buddhist for a moment:

Well done is that action of doing which one repents not later, and the fruit of which one, reaps with delight and happiness.
So long as an evil deed has not ripened, the fool thinks it as sweet as honey. But when the evil deed ripens, the fool comes to grief.


I don't particularly know the nuances of what "Reformed" is - following that second, was there a second following that I stopped sounding Reformed?

I tend to believe that sin is more of a spiritual state; thoughts and actions are symptoms or natural progressions of our states. If you don't like the state or the progression, rescuing yourself is probably pretty near impossible. Rescues have to come from the outside. The first part of a rescue is realizing that there is even something to be recued into; you don't know that until you meet something from the Outside - i.e. God had to intervene. People in the dark don't know what light looks like. People in Black and White don't know what Color looks like. People in 2 dimensions don't know what 3 dimensions looks like. I do believe some Christians have very definable "salvation moments" where it is like the polarity of a switch is flipped from positive to negative.

Both God and Sin are transformative, and in many ways "you are what you eat"* throughout life, even as what we have eaten determines what we will next eat. My personal experience is that it is more of a process, and my faith is that it will end well if it is a cooperative one in the right direction. I prefer a Holy Spirit to an Unholy one, having seen both.

*Come to think of it, that's probably part of why Christ had us eat Himself in the communion sacrament...

...Smart guy! (now that sounds like Vonnegut lol)

There may be some on this planet to whom Christianity "does not apply". There may be grace freely given unto those who never heard of Christ, or never met someone who called themselves a Christian, who actually carried the spirit of Christ, that actual thing from the Outside to see there was something to be rescued into, and something to be rescued from.

...I can only tell you I'm not one of them.
I like that.

You said, "I'm not entirely certain where my thoughts come from."

Yeah, one of the things that Reformed believers, (aka Calvinists), believe, is that our choices are caused. We don't say that man does not choose, nor that man's choice is not real, but that God also causes our choices, just as he causes all things.

So, when you said that, what came to my mind is, nobody knows where their thoughts come from, though the Bible has a lot to say about it. What it does say about it sounds like causation, or at least allows for it.
 
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Petros2015

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I think the video is getting on about what used to be known as the "flatness problem" in cosmology. (I too couldn't bring myself to finish this video, but it fits with the "expansion fine tuning" claim.)

Thank you - I will take the time to read this
 
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ToddNotTodd

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Lately I've been thinking of my interactions with other people, as floating brains interacting with other floating brains... So is that where we are, in our brains..? Or are we our whole body..? Or is it that we are spirit's who are the lord's of our bodies, and every little chemical and electric reaction in our brain is like our own universe, and our consciousness is like a god of that little world? Or perhaps we're all interconnected pieces of a larger human spirit.
I don't believe in a persistent "me" to begin with...
 
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lisah

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Lately I've been thinking of my interactions with other people, as floating brains interacting with other floating brains... So is that where we are, in our brains..? Or are we our whole body..? Or is it that we are spirit's who are the lord's of our bodies, and every little chemical and electric reaction in our brain is like our own universe, and our consciousness is like a god of that little world? Or perhaps we're all interconnected pieces of a larger human spirit.
I think, it may be the latter.
 
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Petros2015

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This argument has since fallen to those who try to argue against modern cosmology for non-scientific reasons.

Definitely was worth the read, thank you for taking the time to post it.
It's been awhile since I've looked but I think the last time I remember being puzzled by something in this arena was "accelerating expansion"; not only was the universe expanding but it was now accelerating in expansion. I'm not sure if that observation has held up (and I personally have no idea what to make of if it has, that doesn't seem to make sense).

Usually I see it pictured something like this:

upload_2021-9-13_19-32-34.png


Sometimes I wonder if it might not be more like this:
upload_2021-9-13_19-35-40.png


SpaceTime will tell, I suppose. Or not lol.
 
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The happy Objectivist

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Lately I've been thinking of my interactions with other people, as floating brains interacting with other floating brains... So is that where we are, in our brains..? Or are we our whole body..? Or is it that we are spirit's who are the lord's of our bodies, and every little chemical and electric reaction in our brain is like our own universe, and our consciousness is like a god of that little world? Or perhaps we're all interconnected pieces of a larger human spirit.
What do you mean by "floating brains"? last I checked my brain was housed in my head and connected to the rest of my body by nerves and blood vessels. I never thought to separate my consciousness from my body. Without consciousness, I'm a corpse. And without my body, there's nothing to pump blood and oxygen to my brain. It is self-evident that my consciousness is a function of my body, not just my brain but also my extensive nervous system. I don't see any reason to think that my consciousness is a piece of a larger human spirit. I've never seen through anyone else's eyes nor thought with another's brain.
 
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Petros2015

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Is there nothing new in life??

Not a proof, just an experience


John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

upload_2021-9-19_20-30-58.png

upload_2021-9-19_20-31-31.png

upload_2021-9-19_20-31-59.png


upload_2021-9-19_20-33-6.png


Strange world, huh?

God bless
 
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Occams Barber

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Not a proof, just an experience


John 1:1-3

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

View attachment 306090
View attachment 306091
View attachment 306092

View attachment 306093

Strange world, huh?

God bless


You just ruined a perfectly good carton. :(

(Should I be drawing some profound meaning from this like the revelation of seeing Jesus' face in a piece of toast?)

OB
 
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Kupdiane

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Lately I've been thinking of my interactions with other people, as floating brains interacting with other floating brains... So is that where we are, in our brains..? Or are we our whole body..? Or is it that we are spirit's who are the lord's of our bodies, and every little chemical and electric reaction in our brain is like our own universe, and our consciousness is like a god of that little world? Or perhaps we're all interconnected pieces of a larger human spirit.

Well, we can clearly see that consciousness is connected to brain activity, and that your conscious awareness can be significantly affected when there is serious brain impairment. It may not be a "spirit" or "soul" at all, but that sentience is part of our material existence as living, biological animals. In Buddhism, and someone can correct me if I am wrong, they teach that we are nothing more than the life we live right now, and that the existence of "self" and "suffering" is an illusion to us. We are as much of a living existence as the tree, but evolution gifted us the increased ability to reason than the other animals as a survival mechanism. However, the idea that we are our memories and experiences developed the illusion that we have a "self" with a distinct identity, when in reality we are no-thingness (as we always were before birth). However, Buddhism also posits reincarnation if an individual doesn't fully escape the illusion, but there is no research to prove that actually happens after death.
 
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jayem

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Except, when I look in the mirror at my eyes, I see eyes that are thousands of years old... These are not really my eyes. These eyes belong to my ancestors... But "me"... I am the vocal narrator that is called "consciousness".

Interesting. We have 2 pet birds, an African grey parrot, and a Goffin's cockatoo. I know they're the descendants of theropod dinosaurs. But when I uncover their cages every morning, I see birds. Not dinosaurs. I also know I'm descended from now extinct, prehistoric hominins. But when I look in the mirror, I just see myself. I suppose we all see things our own way.
 
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